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Re:Volkswagen exec admits full self-driving cars 'may never ... by threeseed on Saturday January 18, 2020 @03:27PM (#22086920)
I actually think autonomous taxi services will be niche.

Think about Uber cars today. Their entire value proposition centres around them breaking parking laws in order to pick you up. Now the liability for that behaviour is with the driver. In an autonomous car the liability would be Uber which is why they won't do it.

An Uber that needs to look for parking in order to pick you up is never going to work in most busy cities. So I suspect you will see people opt for the driver based taxi service instead. Or maybe autonomous taxis will be reserved for emerging markets e.g. Indonesia which are more relaxed about parking.

Re:Volkswagen exec admits full self-driving cars 'may never ... by senordevnyc on Saturday January 18, 2020 @04:33PM (#22087415)
Think about Uber cars today. Their entire value proposition centres around them breaking parking laws in order to pick you up.

I take Uber and Lyft in NYC multiple times per week. No one ever “parks”, they just pull up, you jump in, and off you go. Takes less than a minute in most cases, doesn’t block traffic, and I suspect it virtually never results in a ticket. Maybe if they sit there for 10 minutes or more, but that’s exceedingly rare. And even then, they’re not going to get a ticket outside a few ultra-congested areas of manhattan that make up a tiny fraction of this city. Even in most places in manhattan, you could sit in a running car in a no parking zone for hours without getting a ticket. I had a moving truck up on the curb on the Upper West Side in a no parking zone for hours and the NYPD rolled past several times without a glance.

Also, this is exactly how taxis all work too, btw, which seems to undermine your entire point.

Re:Volkswagen exec admits full self-driving cars 'may never ... by threeseed on Saturday January 18, 2020 @07:14PM (#22088402)
There are explicit laws in NYC to allow this behaviour which is understandable given the power of the taxi lobby and history of the city.

Similar laws simply aren't present in most other cities. Stopping in the middle of the road to pick up passengers is illegal and drivers do it since the police are never there. Hence my point that Uber would never program this illegality into their self driving algorithm.

Re:Volkswagen exec admits full self-driving cars 'may never ... by HereBeBeasties on Saturday January 18, 2020 @04:51PM (#22087535)
Umm, that is is point though - with autonomy the cars presumably won't break the law and stop where it's technically illegal for 30s to pick you up. They will presumably need to find somewhere legal to park to do so.
Re:Volkswagen exec admits full self-driving cars 'may never ... by dkdklk on Saturday January 18, 2020 @04:59PM (#22087581)
You might want to look up the legal difference between parking, stopping, and standing.

The vast majority of pickups in nyc at least are not illegal under any current law.

Re:Volkswagen exec admits full self-driving cars 'may never ... by 8ytecoder on Saturday January 18, 2020 @06:12PM (#22088047)
They block bike lanes all the times. It’s illegal to stand, stop or cruise in bike lanes.
Re:Volkswagen exec admits full self-driving cars 'may never ... by philwelch on Saturday January 18, 2020 @05:02PM (#22087596)
Anecdotally, I've often had Ubers pick me up in specifically marked and designated passenger loading zones when and where that's been appropriate and necessary. And in principle it's really no different from picking up a friend if you're giving them a ride somewhere.
Re:Volkswagen exec admits full self-driving cars 'may never ... by senordevnyc on Saturday January 18, 2020 @06:32PM (#22088153)
I’m not convinced it is illegal, and even if it is, no one cares.
Re:Volkswagen exec admits full self-driving cars 'may never ... by njarboe on Saturday January 18, 2020 @03:33PM (#22086963)
Are parking laws different for Taxis than for Ubers? Say in New York City? Lots of Taxis there so if Ubers are working under the same law, seems like an already solved problem. UPS have millions? of parking violations per year, yet it is still in operation.
Re:Volkswagen exec admits full self-driving cars 'may never ... by threeseed on Saturday January 18, 2020 @04:32PM (#22087402)
You're missing the point.

Drivers own the liability for illegal parking. Autonomous cars would make the developer liable.

No government is going to tolerate systemic and wide spread violation of the law.

Re:Volkswagen exec admits full self-driving cars 'may never ... by robbrown451 on Saturday January 18, 2020 @08:00PM (#22088592)
So the government is going to allow individuals to do it, but not the self driving cars? I don't see it working that way.

It's just like self driving cars will go a bit over the speed limit if that is the flow of traffic. If they don't, then the laws will be adjusted. It would be silly to indefinitely hold back a huge industry because humans get to exploit legal loopholes but machines don't.

Re:Volkswagen exec admits full self-driving cars 'may never ... by hawaiianbrah on Saturday January 18, 2020 @04:46PM (#22087493)
I think “making the developer liable” is jumping to a conclusion that isn’t certain quite yet.
Re:Volkswagen exec admits full self-driving cars 'may never ... by dodobirdlord on Saturday January 18, 2020 @06:47PM (#22088242)
Well, no company is going to be able to put in writing "Our plan is to have cars park illegally." Any system that gets built will be constrained by actually having to be law-abiding, which Uber drivers are not constrained by.
Re:Volkswagen exec admits full self-driving cars 'may never ... by rapind on Saturday January 18, 2020 @03:32PM (#22086958)
I wonder though if autonomous taxi's would simply highlight the parking issues and increase demand for better parking solutions (like no parking, just autonomous taxi lanes).
Re:Volkswagen exec admits full self-driving cars 'may never ... by NicoJuicy on Saturday January 18, 2020 @05:50PM (#22087942)
You forgot one thing.

Autonomous cars won't have the same algorithm as selfish humans to position themselves.

A human will go to one of the busy places and will probably drive back to the original point of pickup.

While a computer will be notified ( 1 car only parked on the busy place) and immediately replaced by a new available/nearby car. Making the process more efficient, more remote places will be handled faster. Busy places more efficient.

Not all cabs will need to earn money, since the biggest expense will be the car driving and not the human driver ( waiting for work).

And as always, if income > fine. They will just pay the fine, some companies even negotiate it because of the sheer amount.

Re:Volkswagen exec admits full self-driving cars 'may never ... by threeseed on Saturday January 18, 2020 @07:17PM (#22088414)
> And as always, if income > fine. They will just pay the fine

Up until the point they are banned.

Everyone, especially lawmakers, are pretty sick of tech companies breaking the law in order to be "disruptive". As we've seen recently with all of the e-scooter bans.

Re:Volkswagen exec admits full self-driving cars 'may never ... by NicoJuicy on Sunday January 19, 2020 @06:56AM (#22090915)
You won't get banned for paying too much parking tickets.

Scooter bans were mostly because it was disruptive having a staple of scooters in the middle of the pedestrian road and they were consistently breaking the rules.

Ps. We do similar stuff for cities at our company. So I don't need an externzl source for this currently.

Re:Volkswagen exec admits full self-driving cars 'may never ... by robbrown451 on Saturday January 18, 2020 @03:31PM (#22086949)
I don't doubt that things take time to adjust. But when it makes a lot more economic sense to take a cab compared to owning a car and driving it (after all, the main reasons cabs aren't all that economical today is the requirement of paying a driver while you just sit there), there will be less cars parked on the road and therefore it will be easier to have places where the cars can pull over and pick up / drop off.

Anyway, "people are willing to break the law but companies aren't" seems a really weird reason to stick with the status quo over something far more efficient.

Re:Volkswagen exec admits full self-driving cars 'may never ... by quickthrower2 on Saturday January 18, 2020 @03:44PM (#22087052)
I think Uber sells the cars to John Doe who registers it in their name then let’s their car take Uber rides. Uber is off the hook for both the illegal parking and the capex.
Re:Volkswagen exec admits full self-driving cars 'may never ... by p1mrx on Saturday January 18, 2020 @04:05PM (#22087205)
If passengers can jump into the car while it's moving slowly (sliding or gull wing doors), then you technically don't need somewhere to park.
Re:Volkswagen exec admits full self-driving cars 'may never ... by BurningFrog on Sunday January 19, 2020 @04:02PM (#22094043)
If valuable, common and practical use breaks parking laws, the laws should be changed.