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Re:SpaceX tests black satellite to reduce ‘megaconstellation... by petschge on Thursday January 16, 2020 @12:39PM (#22066832)
Depending on source class and telescope location it ruins between 1/3 and 1/2 of the available observing time. Are you willing to pay $1 more in taxes to to fund the extra telescopes we need to make up the short fall? Please write to your representatives and senators if you do.
Re:SpaceX tests black satellite to reduce ‘megaconstellation... by modeless on Thursday January 16, 2020 @12:45PM (#22066899)
Yes, I am for building more telescopes, and especially space based ones which should become much cheaper to launch when SpaceX's Starship is ready.
Re:SpaceX tests black satellite to reduce ‘megaconstellation... by gizmo385 on Thursday January 16, 2020 @01:59PM (#22067675)
Satellites and space-based telescopes are still monumentally expensive even if you ignore launch cost. The James Web Space Telescope has cost almost 10 billion dollars in development and won't even launch until (unless the schedule slips again) next year.
Re:SpaceX tests black satellite to reduce ‘megaconstellation... by modeless on Thursday January 16, 2020 @02:33PM (#22068002)
One of the reasons JWST is expensive is its complex folding mechanism. Starship could launch a mirror bigger than JWST's in one piece.

Another reason is that they're only launching one and it has to work perfectly the first and only time it's launched. That level of reliability in a one-off product is incredibly expensive to achieve. With dramatically cheaper launches it would make sense to launch a much larger number of less reliable but much less expensive telescopes.

Another reason is politics, but SpaceX can't solve that one.

Re:SpaceX tests black satellite to reduce ‘megaconstellation... by pawelk on Thursday January 16, 2020 @05:16PM (#22069609)
> it would make sense to launch a much larger number of less reliable but much less expensive telescopes

What if... SpaceX made up for the pollution they introduce by making the Starlink satellites look up the other way and push the captured data back to earth? The lens and CCD would be small, but with the massive volume (and clear sky) it could add up. Like the amateur set ups using an array of consumer grade cameras.

Re:SpaceX tests black satellite to reduce ‘megaconstellation... by FeepingCreature on Thursday January 16, 2020 @02:48PM (#22068150)
Space-based telescopes are expensive in part because launches are expensive, making it more effective to spend a lot of money on single telescopes.
Re:SpaceX tests black satellite to reduce ‘megaconstellation... by petschge on Thursday January 16, 2020 @12:53PM (#22066998)
Space based works for optical, but not all other wave length. For example it will also reduce the sensitivity of air cherenkov telescopes that detect gamma rays and that can not be moved to space.
Re:SpaceX tests black satellite to reduce ‘megaconstellation... by Ajedi32 on Thursday January 16, 2020 @01:00PM (#22067076)
Would air cherenkov telescopes be significantly affected by additional satellites in orbit? It sounds like they're designed to detect high energy gamma rays striking the atmosphere, so probably not?
Re:SpaceX tests black satellite to reduce ‘megaconstellation... by SiempreViernes on Thursday January 16, 2020 @09:36PM (#22071364)
In practice they are looking for very weak flashes of light, adding extra background light obviously reduced sensitivity.
Re:SpaceX tests black satellite to reduce ‘megaconstellation... by dnautics on Thursday January 16, 2020 @01:19PM (#22067268)
is cherenkov radiation even observable during dawn/dusk +/- 2 hours? I imagine that the atmospheric refraction of the sun would seriously hamper those observations during that time period.
Re:SpaceX tests black satellite to reduce ‘megaconstellation... by petschge on Thursday January 16, 2020 @02:37PM (#22068036)
On traditional telescope using photomultipliers such as Magic, Hess or Veritas: no. But systems with solid state detectors such as FACT are moving in that direction.
Re:SpaceX tests black satellite to reduce ‘megaconstellation... by dnautics on Saturday January 18, 2020 @01:06PM (#22085894)
Can you explain that for me? I'm not sure how better detectors let you delete the noise from the sun.
Re:SpaceX tests black satellite to reduce ‘megaconstellation... by nwallin on Thursday January 16, 2020 @06:44PM (#22070333)
I'm struggling to see how starlink will affect those telescopes. Please explain?
Re:SpaceX tests black satellite to reduce ‘megaconstellation... by xur17 on Thursday January 16, 2020 @12:57PM (#22067051)
Why can't those be moved to space?
Re:SpaceX tests black satellite to reduce ‘megaconstellation... by HorstG on Thursday January 16, 2020 @01:03PM (#22067110)
Because cherenkov radiation is only observable in a transparent medium like air or water. Space doesn't work because the speed of light in space equals the speed of light in vacuum, therefore no cherenkov radiation.
Re:SpaceX tests black satellite to reduce ‘megaconstellation... by Taniwha on Thursday January 16, 2020 @01:14PM (#22067212)
Couldn't they look down?
Re:SpaceX tests black satellite to reduce ‘megaconstellation... by HorstG on Thursday January 16, 2020 @03:06PM (#22068324)
Cherenkov telescopes for neutrinos do look down for reasons of schielding. Neutrinos can pass the earth, other particles not so much.

But those are a special case, air cherenkov telescopes are looking for "less weird" particles like photons or protons. Those can only be seen looking up, since the primary particles moving down focuses the cherenkov light down in a narrow cone.

Re:SpaceX tests black satellite to reduce ‘megaconstellation... by petschge on Thursday January 16, 2020 @02:38PM (#22068049)
The Cherenkov emission is boosted in the direction of travel, i.e. downward. And there are too many lights on the surface of the Earth.
Re:SpaceX tests black satellite to reduce ‘megaconstellation... by m4rtink on Thursday January 16, 2020 @01:18PM (#22067263)
While this certainly requires non trivial large scale space engineering, you should be able to build in in principle.

Basically a big bubble filled with the most useful gas for this + bunch of photodetectors inside at the appropriate places. You could also make the whole detection chamber much larger, than the ~30 km (?) of reasonably thick atmosphere you get on Earth.

Re:SpaceX tests black satellite to reduce ‘megaconstellation... by rtkwe on Thursday January 16, 2020 @01:02PM (#22067104)
They are imaging the flashes as the relativistic particles slam into our atmosphere. No atmosphere, no flash.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IACT