TM3 owner, August 2018 delivery date.

I have had no issues for which I have had to take my car to Tesla other than when I had them do a tire rotation as my first service.

I have no annoying rattles or squeaks though road noise tends to be Honda levels (louder) than I have experienced in other cars (Murano or even 17 Chevrolet Volt).

Not to say it is perfect, there are some issues when you look below the surface that shows they were still getting up to speed making mass production cars. I have a few pieces where I just scratch my head, they do what they are supposed to but are not as elegant.

The initial advantage one sees is they are electric. that is a given. the real long term advantage is OTA and Tesla's repeatedly adding features to cars they sold years ago. This is the real game changer in the industry. Need improvements to voice commands or even navigation, previously you bought a newer model.

The interior can be off putting but why? Do you need layers of dead animals to feel luxury? Luxury to me is driving something I just get in and it goes. Luxury is simplicity in design. Compared to my previous Z4 the interior is just fine, the only change for me would be to change the piano black surfacing of some pieces to something else.

Lack of buttons is awesome because in makes you realize how little you ever used the vast majority of them. On that note, my Volt had fourteen separate buttons on the steering wheel, forty plus buttons over all once you rolled in the center stack and dash. Want to try this at home, put a yellow sticker on each button then remove if you use it. Might take weeks in not months.

I am really looking forward to EVs from everyone else but one thing matters most. If you want 50k or more from me it damn well best have three hundred miles EPA range.

It was -5C in Toronto last night. This morning, I couldn't get into my Model 3 because the door glass was frozen. I got some hot water from the washroom and poured it over the glass and got it unstuck. Then I couldn't drive because the sideview mirrors were stuck folded. Got some more hot water and got them unstuck. Maybe the car is designed for California weather only, but in the winter i've had these types of issues. Other than that, its a joy to drive :)

I had this issue the first freezing episode of the year. I applied silicon lube on the rubbers and on the lowest part of the window where it get into the door as well as on door handles. Hasn't been an issue since. Warming up the car before use with the phone app also helps but I always forget to do it myself.

I live in Toronto too -- just use the app to turn on climate control 5 - 10 mins before driving. Works like a charm!

Tesla's were designed to function from Norway to DRC; here's an interesting design question:

How do you keep the heater from decreasing your range too greatly in cold environments? No passive heat source on EVs.

I'm joking but.. This Citroen has the answer! A petrol powered heater

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citro%C3%ABn_Berlingo_%C3%A9...

"Heating

In order to minimise battery usage, a petrol driven heater is fully integrated to vehicle. It typically takes 5 to 10 minutes to warm and provides excellent cabin heating."

It's an issue with all frame less car doors. Last year I read some car blogs and many people apply a silicone layer that makes freezing much harder. Between that and pre warming the car, I haven't had freezing issues. Also, if the door handles freeze up, a small tap with the palm of your hand does the trick.

The one I got is "gummi pflege"

Did you have time to try to use the remote app to turn the internal heat way up for a while to loosen the ice on the glass?

I did start the car before hand - it sometimes helps. Depends on how severe the freezing is. The sideview mirrors are still an issue though

If you read Tesla's cold weather tips, they recommend turning off the automatic side folding mirrors during the winter. Which I don't see as a big deal at all...

you can probably set them to stay open all the time, a luxury vehicle would have the same issue btw.

I've had these issues on my Seat Leon in the past, ie not a Tesla. I am based in the UK and its pretty rare for temperatures to drop below 0 and it still happens.

My dad owns a Civic and a Lexus, this has never happened in the past 25 years of living in Canada (and temperatures keep rising over the years). It's happening due to the door design of Tesla where the glass does not have a frame around it. I made the purchase knowing these issues could arise - but let's not try to make it seem like these issues happen to all cars.

In my experience the doors on my 2006 civic used to freeze shut all the time in UK winters (not hugely cold either: 0 to low negatives degrees-C). Also happens on my current 2010 Toyota if it gets cold enough. These have traditional door frames but the ice often builds up between the frames and seals I guess.

Bit of brute force was enough to pull them open. Windows need to be defrosted before you can open them too.

Rub talcum powder on the black isolation and your door should not freeze shut anymore.

I agree that basic build quality is probably worse than a similarly priced BMW, Audi, etc.

I haven't had any quality issues with mine but I know if I started measuring panel gaps it won't measure up to others in the price range. Noise insulation at highway speeds, door closing sounds, etc. don't quite measure up with the price either.

Mostly I prefer the simplicity of the vehicle and drivetrain. Alternatives from other companies are getting more complex both in interior (3 touchscreens + buttons + weird electronic shifter knobs) and drivetrain (auto start/stop, hybrid, plugin hybrid, 48v mild hybrid, turbo + supercharger, etc.)

A basic standard un-complicated ICE setup is becoming obsolete due to emissions, fuel economy, and power targets.

The biggest change I would make to the Model 3 design is ditching the frameless windows and using normal door frames which are less complex (no need for the window to move each time you open a door) and easier to seal up.

> The biggest change I would make to the Model 3 design is ditching the frameless windows and using normal door frames which are less complex (no need for the window to move each time you open a door) and easier to seal up.

It'd be interesting to understand why the window needs to move down to open the door. I had a 90's acura integra that also had frameless windows, and the door seal was engineered such that it flexed enough to allow you to open/close the door with the window all the way up, but (as far as I can remember) road noise and weather sealing wasn't a problem.

Most frameless window cars now have a drip edge around the window that's supposed to keep moisture away from the door seals. The window goes down a bit in order for the window to clear the drip edge. If your battery goes dead in one, then the window will catch a little and pull. It's okay if it happens a few times, but over time it will probably pull the window off of the tracks.

I thought bmw and mercs do the window thing too.

Some do, some don't. It's definitely a common thing in higher end cars, I just think it's probably over-extending for Tesla to implement this more complex system in a car that's supposed to be cheaper as well as their first real high-volume production vehicle.

Other decisions (single center screen, recessed air vents, lack of physical controls) all seem to be about simplicity and reducing parts in favor of software.

Frameless doors and window seals kind of goes against that in favor of fashion.

My VW CC has frameless windows that drop a centimeter when you unlock the doors. While I like the look, I think this increases road/wind noise.

Owner of a 3 (performance, all options) built in July 2018. I was also nervous about build quality. My personal experience has been pretty great, however. Only a minor issue which the mobile repair truck came out and fixed in my company's parking lot. I didn't even have to go to a service center.

Style is all subjective however there is a real minimalist chic to the 3 interior which I have come to love. In my wife's Merc (similar price to what I paid in 2018) things just feel "cluttered." To each it's own, though. Zero regrets and would buy again!

Mobile repair sounds pretty awesome. I don't own a car, but when I did I always felt like dealing with service was a huge waste of my time. I would avoid getting it serviced simply because I didn't care about it. To me at least, a car is just a way to go from A to B when there's no better way.

My P3d is also from July 18 and is the lowest VIN of any that I know about, less than 55500, any chance yours is lower?

On topic, I've had a few trim issues fixed at the SC which was no cost and not much bother. Otherwise it's amazing, I really would not trade it for any other car.

My wife has a model 3. I have a BMW 535i. I used to love my BMW. Now I beg my wife to drive the Tesla, because the BMW feels like a clunky dinosaur. I agree that Teslas are generally not the most beautiful cars, but the torque, the handling, the software-driven features, and the lack of gas station stops makes up for it, and more. Oh, and as a software guy, the self-driving stuff is really fun to watch evolve.

To be fair, European automotive is the most behind out of any.

We just got a model 3 a few weeks ago.

ALL gasoline cars now feel like dinosaurs. Even hybrids.

I have had 3 electric cars: Chevy Volt, Tesla Model 3, and Jaguar IPace.

The Volt was the worst quality, but a total cost of ownership over 3 years of around $11K, including lease payments, insurance, and gas, but excluding charging.

The IPace is worse than the Tesla at around the same cost. It's worse range is really difficult if you don't have a fast charging setup. The software is obviously not built by a software company.

The Model 3 feels light, and goes far. The lack of physical controls make for a clean design. It can move like a muscle car but is obviously completely silent.

The Tesla sales and support has been terrible. There are obvious growing pains, and it's one reason we got the IPace. Long term those rough edges will smooth out.

How come you decided to buy the IPace? By all accounts it seems to be a terrible car.

I bought a Model 3 a year ago (Dec '18). I liked it so much that, when my wife's Audi lease expired in July, she also got a Model 3 (at least they're different colors...)

The only issue either of us has had is one of the license plate screws stripped the rubber bushing and I had to get a replacement bushing.

Would definitely buy another car from them. In fact, the thing I hate most about the business travel I have to do is renting non-Tesla cars and having to drive something that feels so antiquated.

I sold a BMW 3 series to buy a Tesla Model 3 (performance model). Overall build quality of the Tesla is good but slightly below the BMW. Little things like the sound & feel of doors closing, the way the boot lid feels when opening/closing, etc. A couple of weeks ago it froze overnight and the next morning two of the doors were a bit difficult to open because the windows got stuck (the windows lower a few mm automatically so that the doors can open).

But those little issues aside, I couldn't be happier. Interior quality is actually better than expected and I think on par with the BMW. I personally love the fact that there are hardly any switches and buttons. Just looks very clean and modern.

Handling and ride comfort is absolutely on par with the BMW.

I would never consider purchasing a competing luxury car (BMW, Mercedes, Lexus, etc) but I bought a Tesla. Tesla has a far lower TCO due to the greatly reduced maintenance. Electric is way more fun to drive than ICE. I feel like the quality is great but again this is coming from someone who has never owned a luxury car, and only ever owned/driven Hondas, Toyotas, and Subarus.

TCO is something I haven't thought about. My 4runner needs an oil change, and maybe an air filter, every so often but that's about it. What other maintenance is required for ICE that isn't required for electric?

The list is actually quite long!

Oil, oil filter, transmission fluid, coolant, power steering fluid, radiator, hoses, belts/chains, spark plugs, ignition system, exhaust system. I'm sure there more that I have forgotten.

You can even consider that brake pads will last way longer due to regenerative braking.

Except for oil and oil filter, those things are "lifetime" on most cars built today. So the service life is >120k miles, 20 years, or needs to be replaced as part of a separate repair. Power steering units are all electric now; outside of trucks, I don't think GM products have drain plugs on their automatics; ignition systems are all solid state. Even oil change intervals are inching up past 10k miles. Modern ICEs are surprisingly light on maintenance.

Tires are the biggest maintenance costs for cars, by a pretty healthy margin. I'm sure all Teslas are hard on tires. The amount of torque those motors put out is crazy, and they have an undersized tire relative to the weight of the car. Primacy MXM4 aren't cheap either, at $300 each for the smallest size offered on a TM3.

EV's definitely have an advantage in terms of maintenance, but I suspect it's a bit overstated. Most of the things you listed get checked during normal maintenance and might require replacement or adjustment once or twice during the car's lifetime. The big elephant in the room (and possibly an equalizer) is battery lifetime. How long will the battery really last, and how much will replacements cost?

The gp was comparing to luxury performance cars, which typically eat through brakes, tires and suspension equipment 2 - 4x as quickly as a non-lux/performance car like your Toyota. They also typically require premium fuel and have unimpressive gas mileage. I'm skeptical of Electrek claims that they're a better value than an Accord or Civic, but for a performance car/status symbol, they really do look to be a solid value.

In theory, the electric car should require less long term maintenance as well, as there are dramatically fewer moving parts. These items wouldn't emerge in the first five years (and you probably have less to worry about in a Toyota) but eventually things just start going a little wrong, even with a healthy maintenance schedule. These mechanical failures are less likely in a simpler vehicle.

I've had a model X long range raven for six months and it's fantastic.

When I bought it I was seriously considering e-tron but it doesn't stack up in features (both inside and in the drive train / battery). The panels might be a mm off some places but there is not a squeak from it when driving and it's very comfortable.

Personally it will take a lot to persuade me to buy another brand in the future.

Edit: forgot about the supercharger network as it's just so natural. That alone makes it worth every penny.

My experience with highly priced BMW left me with the impression there is no real difference anymore unless someone thinks having knobs and buttons everywhere is a sign of quality. BMWs can be nice, but they (at least mine) have had some persistent issues.

Sometimes I get the feeling, people think e.g BMWs are better because they are BMWs. Audi fans are also especially fond of their 'quality' even though this is highly subjective.

When they can get drive by wire to match the feedback that I get through my entirely mechanically linked '09 135i BMW I'll happily test drive another Model 3.

Model 3 is a great way to achieve mobility, but it's not a great driving experience.

A company with real time telemetry from all cars all the time ought to blow a traditional automaker out of the water with reliability.

They can do things like measure vibration of a particular circuit board across the fleet, compare that to the design specs, and be able to predict failure probability a long time ahead of real failures. In turn, they can then revise designs to avoid a failure mode that hasn't even occurred yet. A failure that would have affected millions of cars now only affects thousands.

Lots of things can be mitigated with firmware changes - for example, if you see a specific MOSFET getting hotter than expected during regen braking in cold climates, you can adjust the drive parameters to avoid shootthrough, preventing it failing 10 years down the line.

Couple that with tesla employing service personnel ought to mean they can get photos from a failed part direct to an engineer within a few hours to see if a redesign is warranted. You can't easily get that through third party repair shops.

Overall, Tesla seems to have so many advantages in the reliability/quality department, yet news articles don't seem to match. I wonder why?

You seem to be suggesting there's a media bias here. I think probably an honest answer to your question is "Tesla has all of these advantages in data gathering, but is not operationally equipped to use them."

Changes to circuit board vibration, to pick one of your examples, relies on tight control of manufacturing as a process. Model 3s had such basic issues as leaks in door seals--does it seem like they have tight control of manufacturing?

Manufacturing prowess aside, this forum has a pretty big collective eye roll at management and consultants and business 101 topics generally, but when you talk about things like "getting photos from a failed part direct to an engineer" you need to be asking whether those departments are set up to communicate with one another.

Are boards actually this instrumented? Does each MOSFET have a temperature sensor onboard?

MOSFET on-resistance is highly dependant on temperature. They will certainly be able to measure that, even if they don't have sensors on the MOSFETs themselves. They will probably have both current and voltage measurement, so even have two ways to measure it! Even $2 China motor controllers have the hardware for it (although not the software)

I'd expect them to have sensors on the individual MOSFETs though - there is per-component variation, and software changes can benefit per-component efficiency. I could totally believe a gain of +1% efficiency from such tuning, and probably more like +30% peak performance, since components can be pushed far closer to their limits when you know the exact temperatures.

No they are not. Maybe one temp sensor per ECU.

I'm on my second Tesla. Model S (2016 facelift) and now a 2019 Model 3.

Love them. The Model 3 interior is amazing. So simple and elegant. But that is a personal taste.

The only thing I've really noticed on the Model 3 is the road noise. I've owned a BMW before, and it is a bit louder in the Model 3. Some of it is due to not having an "engine noise" to cover some of the road noise up. But it is not a big issue at all with music/radio playing. Sometimes if I'm trying to have a phone call and I'm going over 75/80 Mph (yes, within the speed limit where I live), I'll have to talk louder for sure.

In the end, I would not trade my Tesla for anything. Last year, I rented a Porsche Turbo S for two days because it was something I had always wanted to drive. It was fun, but I wanted my Tesla back afterwards.

The issue is the lack of sound dampening. It happens with any car. You can fix this retroactively with sound dampening products in any car that you feel is excessively loud inside. Some cars are worse than others. Model 3 probably just cheaps out with their use of interior dampening foam.

Fit and finish is worse (e.g, fit noises, panel gaps, quality of materials) and sound insulation is much worse (i.e., traditional luxury brands are much better at highway speeds). You can't beat electric for drive train smoothness and performance, and the Tesla infotainment is on another level. Depending on how you balance these things you may prefer a Mercedes/BMW/Audi once they deliver an electric range worth considering.

I have a May 2018 build, and the quality is better than my wife's last Audi, but there are still things that could be improved, mostly the interior rattles. At the same time, most of those would be covered up if there was an ICE droning on, so for all I know those were present in her car too and we never noticed them.

I drove my friends Model S and the performance felt like a Ferrari but the cabin interior felt like a Hyundai. I find that OK, since a company needs to specialize when building a brand and Tesla seems to have focused on driving experience and safety. When I’m done with my current car I’ll be buying a 3 or an S.

I love my Model 3, but dealing with Tesla is like dealing with any other startup running on hot air. Sometimes the employees don't have good accountability, and sometimes the company runs so fast they don't realize that they dropped customers in the shuffle.

(Basically, Tesla needs better-defined internal processes and better customer feedback loops. Common problems when startups are moving so fast that their rear view mirror is a blur.)

How does that relate to quality? Overall, it's a great car. Most of my problems are software-related, and trying to get Tesla service to even acknowledge the problem requires a few rain dances and magic tweets to the divine Elon Musk god.

That being said, I've had a few other "real" quality problems with other cars. So far, nothing major with my Model 3.

For example, my Chrysler plug-in hybrid randomly stops charging on a 30-amp charger. Chrysler service just blames my equipment instead of fixing the problem. If I had a similar problem with Tesla, I'm quite confident that they would fix it without any hassle.

Being 100% electric is a pretty huge advantage, I wouldn't underestimate it. While I don't own a Tesla myself I have only heard good things from people who do.

I got a used one (now ~4 years old) about a year ago. I've mostly liked it.

It's true that interior quality isn't as good as traditional car makers at the same price point. The leather surfaces are kinda plastic looking. The previous owner also decided to add a bunch of fake carbon fiber to the dashboard, which looks goofy but eh. Newer models apparently look better inside.

Agreed that the exterior styling is boring. That said, I don't find any sedan made in the last 10 years is particularly good looking.

Being electric allows some features that are really nice to have. Cabin overheat prevention is a really good safety feature. It's also safe to run all the vehicle systems in an enclosed space, so you can run the heat or AC in a garage, which is great during cold/hot days.

Beyond just being electric, I'd throw in:

- The on-board software is easily the least bad of any car I've touched

- Remote control via phone is strangely nice to have

- The sedans have wagon-like cargo capacity

- I've heard service horror stories, and I don't doubt that it happens, but the two service appointments I've had were fine. For a part recall they actually came to my home and did the service on-site. For a broken sunroof (my fault) total turnaround time was about 48 hours and I could book the service directly from the app, which was cool. It's also nice you don't have to change oil or do other engine maintenance.

It feels different and I was prepared to not like it. My previous car and wife's current car is BMW (leather seats, wood dash etc.). I loved the BMW feel. But these days I try to avoid ending up in my wife's BMW as much as possible.

Whenever I'm in any luxury car it feels nice, but also feels dated. Hard to explain. Kind of like you might enjoy your AirBnb stay in an old chateau but won't want to live there for good.

Model X owner for 1.5 years.

I had one issue soon after delivery, the passenger-side mirror didn't adjust properly when it had been sitting out in the sun. Tesla sent a guy to my house to replace it under warranty. Took him about an hour and no cost to me.

Last year I thought I had a serious issue that turned out to just be a (very) poorly documented software limitation that I was unlucky enough to run into. The private street my building was on was on a navigation blacklist for some reason, which caused issues when navigating to or from that street. The service center staff knew this blacklist existed but had never heard of it actually affecting anyone.

Anyway, I started setting destination to the corner before I turned onto that street, and not starting navigation when I was leaving work until after I turned off the street, and everything was fine. Mildly annoying but I was relieved that it wasn't actually an issue with the car.

I have been very happy with the quality of mine!

Due to software updates, my car is faster, safer, and more efficient than when I bought it 9 months ago. That's pretty wild, and something I've never seen with another car.

I recently rented 2 different Model S cars (through Turo), one 4 years old, the other 6. The 4-year old car was in great shape, and worked perfectly, but it also needed some software updates. The 6-year old car was a bit worn inside and had some technical issues, but mechanically solid on a 1500-mile road trip (including one 500-mile day with 3 charger stops).

The issues with the older car were rear door handles that didn't work (they would not present from the outside), and the central display getting glitchy. "Rebooting" the car fixed the display, and the owner said that it needed rebooting about once a week. The door-handle issue never went away, and it wasn't clear if it was software or a mechanical issue. Software is more likely because both were not working in the same way (doors could be open from the inside).

Those problems aside, we had 4 adults and one teenager in the car for hours on end, also carrying 5 suitcases and 5 small backpacks, along with bags of food, etc--the frunk is really big. That is easily 1000 lbs of payload. We drove freeways and small paved roads for miles, and the weather was cold, from 50 to 5 Fahrenheit (10 to -15 C). We didn't have any stuck windows, and other than some range impact[1], the cold was not a factor. So we were really happy with the car, the drivetrain and road handling were rock solid in all cases.

I know Teslas can have mechanical problems, and they can go into the shop for days/weeks (just like BMWs I hear), but having a reliable electric drive-train to drive my family through the winter weather was somehow reassuring.

Edited to add: people are saying Teslas only have the price of a luxury car, but they have one other critical thing: the power. In our fully loaded rental S, I had no problem getting up hills or "dealing" with traffic (heh), including huge trucks on small roads.

[1] Note that cold reduces range in 2 separate ways: it affects the battery chemistry so there is less charge available (about 10% less), and it requires some of the available energy to heat the cabin (no waste heat from an inefficient ICE). Seat heaters make you warmer with less energy than heating the air, but the model we had didn't have back-seat heaters, so we used the cabin heat (probably created by a heat pump).

I'd say the car's build feels much better than the other similarly priced EVs or better than a Camry. It's probably under what you would find for similarly prices gas car. I don't see entry level Tesla's as luxury cars per se, but the driving experience is definitely luxury.

As far as I can tell teslas are good cars, but more important than that they are status symbols.

I've had my 3 for a month. You can tell it was built "minimally" so that it can be affordable, but the interior doesn't feel cheap. The driving experience is amazing, I never want to go back to gas cars now.

I'm curious as well. I'm mostly curious about the build quality of simple mechanical features like the doors. Why do the model 3 doors feel so cheap compared to a BMW. Is it a weight thing or just an oversight?

As a followup for those who gave feedback, did you ever have a problem with parts availability after being involved in an accident?

I do not own one, but I had a Lyft driver show up in a Model S once.

The interior was nice but spartan. The ride quality was absolute garbage. I felt every single bump, crack, and pothole in the road. Tesla does not compete in the luxury space, only in the luxury price range.

I don't own a Tesla but listen to a lot of podcasts that feature car enthusiasts. The reviews are pretty positive across the board. Regarding the cheapness, people almost universally agree the interiors feel cheap at the price you're paying. I sat in one recently and have to agree.