If I'd been making $60K my wife could stop working. At $80K she wouldn't have to work and we'd still be moving into "new BMW every three years" kind of money.
$80K goes a lot further in Europe than it does in the US.
My salary is ~twice the median income for this area, and by any measure we're at the upper end of middle class by Swedish standards.
Anyways, I wouldn't consider someone establishing outside of an european city (esp when working there) "high middle class". If you can't afford central housing of your choice, you dont qualify.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/PnrNuo2k3LsgaeG89
That apartment is 44km as the crow flies from my house, 55km by car (45-50min of driving).
Is your definition of "high middle class" really if we're able to afford central Stockholm housing?
> $80K goes a lot further in Europe than it does in the US.
I would like to see evidence supporting this assertion. Luxury meats are about the only thing I can think of that are more expensive stateside.
School costs us nothing out of pocket.
Our grand total out of pocket medical costs for our kid thus far (turns 4 in March) is around $500. Including any medication we've ever bought for him. Half of that $500 went to spending Monday through Friday at the hospital when he was born, in a hotel style room with three meals a day included for the both of us.
We didn't need private health insurance for that, nor have it provided by either employer.
We also received 480 paid parental leave days to be split between us (90 reserved for her, 90 for me, the remaining 300 at our discretion).
That's some evidence right there. I have no numbers from the countries you mentioned though. The difference there could be smaller.
His dental is completely free until he turns 23. Same as for anyone living in Sweden.
$80k in London as a single 20-something is great and you might be able to save a little while living central, while for a family of 4 it'd be much tighter and you'd live further out of the city.
$80k in Manchester and you'll have a comfortable life as a family of 4.
$80k in Poland and you'll be laughing in a luxury flat somewhere with no financial worries.
Europe is a large place and for the majority of countries and cities that is enough money to live extremely comfortably.
As for evidence, the average median salary in Europe is 16943€ or $18,947. The average salary in the US is three times this amount so sure - it goes 'a lot further in Europe'.
https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?cou...
Check the VW Golf comparison. I also did a quick search for a BMW i8, the price in Sweden was ~10x in SEK than the price in USD (1 USD = 9.41 SEK), and I don’t know whether taxes were included in the US price, probably not.
When comparing BMW prices, don't look at some weird cars that nobody buys like i8, look at popular BMWs. For example, 2020 BMW X5 here costs something around $70k, depending on the features.
EDIT: (using the most tax-effective form of employment, which most of the time is working as a contractor. Being a full-time employee comes with so much higher taxes in EU)
In the US, someone like a programmer would get their health insurance paid for by their employer as additional compensation on top of their already much higher salary. The vast majority of Americans either get health insurance through their employer or are retired and are eligible for Medicare. Employers on average pay 82% of premiums for a single person, leaving on average $1,200 paid by the worker. For someone like a programmer, it’s common for employees to pay the whole premium. When you look at US salaries, that additional compensation is on top of the reported salary. So although health insurance is very expensive, you’re mostly not paying it out of the reported salary.
So out of pocket expenses for the Amercian are going to be much, much higher.
Not in comparison to the salary difference: https://www.oecd.org/health/health-systems/OECD-Focus-on-Out.... About $500/year difference between USA and France.
Health care, housing, education, retirement are incredibly expensive in the US. Day-to-day life in the US is also quite expensive for most Americans. Most people in the US are in massive amounts of debt with little to no savings.
The salaries that are considered "acceptable" in those countries would result in a _negative_ effective tax rate in the US. Tax rate alone is not everything. It's a combination of pretax pay and the effective tax rate that you need to be considering.
Outstanding people make $120-160k - and here I agree, they would probably make twice that much if not more at FAANG in SV. But, their taxes would be at 35-40%, and housing would also be more expensive. I've often considered moving to SV (I'm making $160k in Poland). According to my calculations, I would be saving up to 50% more money there, but for me that's not enough to move to the other end of the world - not to mention the gruesome immigration process.
In the US, someone on that amount in Denver will pay $29k in tax.
That's not an extraordinary difference, even before you factor in health care costs.
true, but you should calculate everything- highly subsidized education, public transportation and medical, generous grants for students, more vacation days, long parental leave etc.
Don't know how accurate this list is, but I'm pretty sure an electrician in my area wouldn't even want to get out of bed in the morning for 40K euro per year.
https://www.buildingtalk.com/tradesmen-around-the-world-whic...
That just means the rest of the population is poor, not that you should accept less. This is called a fallacy of relative privation. So what if you have to subsist on ramen and can't afford a place to live with less than an hour and a half of commute. Think of all those starving children in Uganda instead. That's how the ruling class shits in your head with propaganda.
As a professional you should be able to accomplish the minimum of: raising a couple of kids, buying a residence, putting quality food on the table, and sock away enough to not be poor when it's time to retire. You should aim to make more than enough money to do all of the above while maintaining a first world lifestyle.
If you're not able to do that in your profession, that fancy college degree is materially worse than a plumbing or electrical trade school certification.