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Re:The top bug predictor is not technical, it's organization... by specialist on Wednesday December 18, 2019 @09:54AM (#21825403)
n-tiered architectures were born during the transition from "workgroup" to "client/server". This upheaval caused an industry-wide loss of programming lore.

It wouldn't have been too bad, except the ODBC interface inadvertently led to abandoning schema-aware programming models like VB's ADO, Paradox, FoxPro, etc.

At the same time, object oriented became fashionable.

So we ended up with ORMs, ActiveRecord, and various offshoots.

Mostly because no one remembers life before client/server.

Re:The top bug predictor is not technical, it's organization... by pjc50 on Wednesday December 18, 2019 @10:41AM (#21825918)
I was always a bit hazy on what these terms actually meant, and what we lost. It does seem like there was a brief golden age of easy "rapid application development" tools like FoxPro where you could wire some UI fields to a database without too much trouble. Now we have people trying to do the same in the web, badly.
Re:The top bug predictor is not technical, it's organization... by specialist on Wednesday December 18, 2019 @12:24PM (#21827103)
I also had no idea what client/server meant (at the time). My current oversimplified distinction:

Workgroup: I/O thru file system, clients responsible for locking, concurrency, etc.

Client/Server: I/O thru DB's protocol (eg TDS), server responsible for locking, concurrency, etc.

--

As for what was lost, I spent way too long (10+ years) trying to figure that out, trying to fulfill the desire to recover the ADO (Access Data Objects) programming paradigm. I think I succeeded, more or less, and am currently reorienting my life to work on it full-time.

Re:The top bug predictor is not technical, it's organization... by ksec on Thursday December 19, 2019 @02:53PM (#21838548)
I used to loathe FoxPro, now I actually miss it, it was simple enough to quickly get the job done. I have always thought in the 2000s that something better, more powerful and even easier to use would come. And looking back I felt a lot of times technologies general we reinvent the wheel and nothing better actually came out of it.

FileMaker may be an alternative, but I never understood why it hasn't caught on.

And I am not even sure if there are any product similar that is good on the Web.

Re:The top bug predictor is not technical, it's organization... by hyperman1 on Wednesday December 18, 2019 @10:32AM (#21825833)
I assume that's the windows 3.11 era? It was a simpler time, with small non-hostile networks, less critical software, and more humans in the loop. While 'workgroup' mostly means PC/DOS to me, the mainframes of the day had a comparable story unfolding.
Re:The top bug predictor is not technical, it's organization... by ratww on Wednesday December 18, 2019 @11:16AM (#21826343)
Funny thing, I remember lot of similar apps in enterprise businesses until the late 2000s. That only started to change when web apps and cloud-hosted software became the norm.
Re:The top bug predictor is not technical, it's organization... by aprdm on Wednesday December 18, 2019 @10:00AM (#21825484)
Can you talk more about workgroup?
Re:The top bug predictor is not technical, it's organization... by ratww on Wednesday December 18, 2019 @11:27AM (#21826470)
Not the GP, but I used to work in desktop development for enterprise businesses.

Most multi-user apps were two tiered: client and database. The way they worked was by connecting directly to the database and/or a shared filesystem in the local network. All validation happened client-side.

Database credentials and fine-grained file/directory permissions were the only security measures. That and the NAT. ;)

There's still software in the market that uses this model, like some niche ERPs from the 90s and software catered to small/mid businesses.

Re:The top bug predictor is not technical, it's organization... by johnchristopher on Wednesday December 18, 2019 @12:09PM (#21826925)
> Database credentials and fine-grained file/directory permissions were the only security measures. That and the NAT. ;)

It baffles me that the CCNA materials is still based around these use cases.