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Re:Vice Ventures is investing in taboo industries that other... by LyndsySimon on Thursday November 14, 2019 @03:03PM (#21538853)
I’ve mentioned this before, but the firearms industry has a similar issue, caused by the same clauses. Local gun stores often pay very high fees for credit card processing relative to other retail stores - and unlike gambling and pornography, this doesn’t seem to be supported by a higher chargeback rate as best I can tell. They’ve just been “lumped in” because of the regulated nature of some of their products.

I say “some of”, because things like magazines and accessories are usually included in the “prohibited goods and services” clauses, even though they are typical subject to no specific regulation at either the state or federal level. It’s honestly kind of weird to me.

Re:Vice Ventures is investing in taboo industries that other... by flyingfences on Thursday November 14, 2019 @03:35PM (#21539126)
Such denials of service are due in part to the politics of the financial bigwigs, but are also due in large point to government programs [1] specifically designed to suppress "undesirable" business.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Choke_Point

Re:Vice Ventures is investing in taboo industries that other... by scarface74 on Thursday November 14, 2019 @07:10PM (#21541019)
I doubt the current administration is targeting gun dealers.
Re:Vice Ventures is investing in taboo industries that other... by manfredo on Thursday November 14, 2019 @11:10PM (#21542142)
The article explains that this program was terminated in 2017:

> This operation, disclosed in an August 2013 Wall Street Journal story,[2] was officially ended in August 2017,[3] and the FDIC settled multiple lawsuits by promising to Congress additional training for its examiners and to cease issuing "informal" and "unwritten suggestions" to banks.

This program actually seems pretty sketchy. Government officials were having banks to identify customers in certain industries and subsequently "informally suggesting" that banks terminate these customers' accounts. Congress also criticized this program:

> Forceful prosecution of those who defraud American consumers is both responsible and admirable. However, Department of Justice initiatives to combat mass-market consumer fraud must be legitimate exercises of the Department's legal authorities, and must be executed in a manner that does not unfairly harm legitimate merchants and individuals.

> Operation Choke Point fails both these requirements. The Department's radical reinterpretation of what constitutes an actionable violation under § 951 of FIRREA fundamentally distorts Congress' intent in enacting the law, and inappropriately demands that bankers act as the moral arbiters and policemen of the commercial world. In light of the Department's obligation to act within the bounds of the law, and its avowed commitment not to "discourage or inhibit" the lawful conduct of honest merchants, it is necessary to disavow and dismantle Operation Choke Point.

Should the government be able to strip people of their ability to use banking services, even when they have committed no crimes? Sure, we may not like gun stores or fireworks or porn but the kicking people off of banking services without justification is quite authoritarian.

Re:Vice Ventures is investing in taboo industries that other... by jjeaff on Thursday November 14, 2019 @08:53PM (#21541584)
Regulations from previous administrations don't magically disappear at the end of their term.
Re:Vice Ventures is investing in taboo industries that other... by scarface74 on Thursday November 14, 2019 @09:15PM (#21541679)
It’s not about the regulations, it’s about whether the executive branch chooses to enforce them and how much.
Re:Vice Ventures is investing in taboo industries that other... by nwallin on Thursday November 14, 2019 @11:04PM (#21542113)
In most cases, the statute of limitations is longer than the duration of whatever the current administration is.
Re:Vice Ventures is investing in taboo industries that other... by BubRoss on Thursday November 14, 2019 @10:02PM (#21541885)
That's really not true, you can't run a giant public company and start breaking laws because you think 'the current executive branch won't care'.
Re:Vice Ventures is investing in taboo industries that other... by scarface74 on Friday November 15, 2019 @11:05AM (#21545931)
CounterExamples:

(And before anyone gets triggered about me talking about politics, please notice that the examples below are referring to both parties in the same light)

1. Selling marijuana is still illegal federally but there are hundreds of companies selling it out in the open in states where it is legal. Neither Republican or Democratic Presidents seem to have much interest in prosecuting them. Yes I know The former attorney general under Trump wanted to start prosecutions but the Republican Congress at the time basically said he couldn’t use funds for it and it went against what even Trump wanted.

2. How many companies were paying illegal immigrants for farm labor and factory work while both Republican and Democratic lawmakers looked the other way until Trump? I am not making a value judgement either way here.

3. Uber

Re:Vice Ventures is investing in taboo industries that other... by BubRoss on Friday November 15, 2019 @01:04PM (#21547103)
Your first example is a contradiction between state law and federal law. Large public companies seemed to stay out of this business for that reason.

Your second example was also not something large public companies were doing consistently and I don't think that has changed with a different administration.

"Uber" is not any sort of statement or reasoning in support of what you are saying.

Re:Vice Ventures is investing in taboo industries that other... by scarface74 on Friday November 15, 2019 @02:16PM (#21547807)
Uber is a national company whose business model was predicated on breaking local laws.

The Koch Brothers run multiple national companies and had one of their companies recently raided for employing illegal immigrants.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-biz-ice-raids-koc...

Re:Vice Ventures is investing in taboo industries that other... by BubRoss on Friday November 15, 2019 @03:26PM (#21548410)
> Uber is a national company whose business model was predicated on breaking local laws.

Nope

> The Koch Brothers run multiple national companies and had one of their companies recently raided for employing illegal immigrants.

Are you implying they did this because the previous administration 'did not care' ? That's a large assumption.

Re:Vice Ventures is investing in taboo industries that other... by scarface74 on Friday November 15, 2019 @03:51PM (#21548639)
So Uber wasn’t breaking local taxi laws for years?

Everyone knows that farmers and companies employing low skill labor have been employing illegal immigrants for decades. Other presidents both Republican and Democrats have looked the other way because both sets of employers would not be able to find enough cheap labor otherwise. No one wants to harm the farm belt because of their outsized electoral college influence.

Re:Vice Ventures is investing in taboo industries that other... by BubRoss on Friday November 15, 2019 @06:14PM (#21549700)
I don't think anything Uber did related to selectively ignoring laws when a new administration took office.

How is any of this about large companies not caring about laws because of a new president?

Re:Vice Ventures is investing in taboo industries that other... by scarface74 on Friday November 15, 2019 @06:24PM (#21549757)
Well seeing that your question doesn’t have anything to do with the thread...

My post:

“ It’s not about the regulations, it’s about whether the executive branch chooses to enforce them and how much.”

And the response to:

“ That's really not true, you can't run a giant public company and start breaking laws because you think 'the current executive branch won't care'.”

What does it have to do with “changing” the executive branch?

The “executive branch” is not just at the federal level. It’s also at the state and the local level where the president/governor/mayor has a lot of influence on what gets enforced.

Re:Vice Ventures is investing in taboo industries that other... by tjr225 on Thursday November 14, 2019 @08:58PM (#21541601)
They don't magically appear under certain administrations either. I'm not sure I understand your point.
Re:Vice Ventures is investing in taboo industries that other... by AngryData on Thursday November 14, 2019 @09:04PM (#21541637)
No, but certain politicians would with a goal of gun elimination might. We have already seen pointless laws passed to ban cosmetic features on guns that has zero purpose other than punish monetarily and criminalize otherwise law abiding citizens. At the very least it makes them buy federal tax stamps or pay for Federal Firearms Licenses which is a paywall for ownership and will ultimately reduce ownership rates.
Re:Vice Ventures is investing in taboo industries that other... by joe_the_user on Thursday November 14, 2019 @04:27PM (#21539617)
I think most of the firearms industry serves police and military and I don't think that part has trouble getting finance of whatever sort it might need. Retail gun sales are a somewhat exceptional little piece of the overall arms industry. Many nations that control access to arms for their citizens still maintain and support an arms industry, including small firearms.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms_industry

Re:Vice Ventures is investing in taboo industries that other... by jack_h on Thursday November 14, 2019 @04:41PM (#21539763)
This is true for major manufacturers that have been around for decades or even centuries. Small start-ups have a much harder time finding funding.
Re:Vice Ventures is investing in taboo industries that other... by beat on Thursday November 14, 2019 @05:07PM (#21539988)
Small startups doing expensive manufacturing in the face of existing industrial-grade competition will always have a hard time finding funding, because the risk/reward ratio sucks.
Re:Vice Ventures is investing in taboo industries that other... by jack_h on Thursday November 14, 2019 @05:37PM (#21540264)
True, and the general consensus is if you want to make a start-up in this industry just don't. It's more likely you'll end up on a future episode of Forgotten Weapons.

I can definitely understand not wanting to invest in these sorts of start-ups purely from an ROI perspective.

Re:Vice Ventures is investing in taboo industries that other... by ARandomerDude on Thursday November 14, 2019 @06:07PM (#21540511)
The "firearms industry" is a subset of the "arms industry." "Firearms" are rifles, pistols, and shotguns. "Arms" include those, plus tanks, fighter jets, artillery, nuclear weapons, etc.
Re:Vice Ventures is investing in taboo industries that other... by nyolfen on Thursday November 14, 2019 @06:20PM (#21540612)
there is crossover but you might as well lump together stealth bombers and SUVs. the vast, vast majority of firearms produced by US companies are for civilians.
Re:Vice Ventures is investing in taboo industries that other... by ARandomerDude on Thursday November 14, 2019 @06:52PM (#21540891)
Completely agree, that was my point. The parent comment lumped them together, including a Wikipedia link to an article on "the arms industry." But the arms industry is so vast that high-level conclusions about government purchasing have almost nothing to do with the grandparent comment about credit card fees at local gun stores.
Re:Vice Ventures is investing in taboo industries that other... by catalogia on Thursday November 14, 2019 @11:14PM (#21542157)
> "there is crossover but you might as well lump together stealth bombers and SUVs."

Saab comes to mind.

Re:Vice Ventures is investing in taboo industries that other... by manfredo on Thursday November 14, 2019 @11:14PM (#21542152)
Again, the vast majority of "firearms" but not the vast majority of "arms". People aren't buying F-35s at their local gun store.
Re:Vice Ventures is investing in taboo industries that other... by soapboxrocket on Thursday November 14, 2019 @03:20PM (#21539005)
What I find so interesting about Vice Ventures is how she has drawn a hard line on the weapons industry.
Re:Vice Ventures is investing in taboo industries that other... by jay_kyburz on Thursday November 14, 2019 @03:39PM (#21539156)
Yeah, its not that they have no moral compass, its just that it points in a different direction to many people. I don't have a problem with sex tech or esports but want nothing to do with addiction.

I wonder if they would also fund email spammers if there was money in it.

Re:Vice Ventures is investing in taboo industries that other... by mtnGoat on Thursday November 14, 2019 @04:18PM (#21539542)
Yet sex/porn and esports are both addicting. How does that math add up?

Games maybe not so much by nature, but the publishers are trying everything they can to increase your time in game.

Re:Vice Ventures is investing in taboo industries that other... by duskwuff on Thursday November 14, 2019 @04:35PM (#21539694)
"Esports" typically refers to professional competitive gaming, not to video games in general -- the focus is on viewership, not participation. There are some related side industries which might fit that description (like esports betting sites), but the industry itself isn't particularly "addictive", at least no more than traditional sports.

The classification of sex and pornography as "addictive" has been controversial, and all I'll say about that is that there is no scientific consensus that they should be considered as such.

Re:Vice Ventures is investing in taboo industries that other... by mtnGoat on Thursday November 14, 2019 @04:51PM (#21539870)
ok, i can get on board with the esports part.

Porn, you can call it anecdotal, but over a decade in that industry taught me, its certainly addictive for some, and is are some very manipulative marketing going on by the smarter companies. But i do see the opposing argument, people get addicted to all kinds of strange things and nothing about porn per se is addicting. it's that ending they are addicted to, not the content.

Re:Vice Ventures is investing in taboo industries that other... by rurp on Thursday November 14, 2019 @09:01PM (#21541616)
I used the work in the gaming[0] industry and did my best to read up on addiction, both in general terms and related to gambling. One of the main takeaways I found was that the addiction rates are surprisingly similar across different vices. It doesn't matter if the vice is gambling, porn, alcohol, shopping, or whatever -- some low single digit percent of the population is likely to get dangerously addicted, a somewhat larger group will spend way too much money but not otherwise disrupt their life, and the vast majority of people will treat it like just another type of recreation.

I really wish our society could take all of the energy that goes into criminalizing and stigmatizing vice industries and instead use it to offer help to people who are dangerously addicted. Just think of how much free therapy, rehab, and drug research could be funded by the tens of billions of dollars that the drug war has cost.

[0] Gaming is the industry term for gambling

Re:Vice Ventures is investing in taboo industries that other... by mensetmanusman on Thursday November 14, 2019 @08:32PM (#21541468)
People say they get addicted to porn, what does science have to do with what they say?
Re:Vice Ventures is investing in taboo industries that other... by duskwuff on Thursday November 14, 2019 @09:03PM (#21541630)
Science says that there is a distinction between the colloquial definition of "addicted" and the technical definition of a physiological / psychological addiction.

Many people will also say that a delicious food, an entertaining game, or an enjoyable TV show is "addictive", but these do not actually constitute addictions either.

Re:Vice Ventures is investing in taboo industries that other... by mensetmanusman on Thursday November 14, 2019 @09:42PM (#21541804)
Sure, but science doesn’t say that, per se, because science is about quantitative measurement. We have no machine that can measure addiction.

People with scientific backgrounds hypothesize all the time, and they have machines that can make brain scan images, but we aren’t very close to being able to measure addiction on a numerical scale.

The best we have is listening to people, maybe analogous to how we listen to people when they believe they are a different gender, etc. since there is no quantitative measure for ‘feelings’ (see Olympic male/female athlete controversies, et al.)

We may get there some day...

Re:Vice Ventures is investing in taboo industries that other... by random42 on Thursday November 14, 2019 @11:34PM (#21542226)
> science is about quantitative measurement

Hard sciences may be, but there are quite a soft science domains such as psychology. We do not yet know exact nature of addiction, but psychological, environmental impacts have not been ruled out, by most scientists.

Re:Vice Ventures is investing in taboo industries that other... by jay_kyburz on Friday November 15, 2019 @04:57AM (#21543647)
I believe we do have machines that can measure substance addictions. You can certainly measure how sick they get from withdrawals.
Re:Vice Ventures is investing in taboo industries that other... by ZephyrP on Friday November 15, 2019 @11:32AM (#21546205)
I actually just happened to be hanging out downtown and found myself at a convention for people devoted to answering just that question!

DeltaFOSB is a gene transcription factor and is the precursor for the development of all forms of what is clinically called "addiction". However what the other commentators suggested [food is not addictive] is not actually true, it has a measurable affect here. In fact, Delta-FOSB can be and often is used as a biomarker of addiction in patients who are already deceased (and can have their brains broken open).

Now, as to the question of addictiveness, nobody mentioned anything about pornography there, but I did hear an interesting anecdote about the raw power that certain addictions have that clearly isn't present in pornography; Delta FOS-B accumulates in the ventral tagamental area and nucleus accumbens, two central regions of the brain, and many drugs have the action of creating floods of FOS-B precursors there, for example, this effect is so strong in heroin addicts, that they nearly always throw up upon recent re-exposure (sometimes newer Methamphetamine addicts as well) where the mechanism here is the flood of FOSB, which an outer region (she had mentioned but I have already forgotten which) interprets as "poisoning". So while it may be true that pornography is "addicting" - when is the last time you saw someone throw up when they looked at pornography (modulo ordinary "disgust").

What was doubly interesting was that she said the change in dopamine regulation (meaning the introduction of new dopamine-like substances + the change in the rate that your body "reuptakes" dopamine) in the most powerful addictions -- benzodiazapines and opiates, aren't actually that high, and compared with drugs like methamphetamine and cocaine aren't much different from marijuana.

It's this secondary affect that creates these changes in reasoning and reward structure with these drugs (she also mentioned that both have "withdrawal", which while technically unrelated to addiction is extremely painful and sometimes life-threatening).

However, to be fair, it was repeatedly stressed that the "secondary" affect was more than just Delta-FOSB. There were changes in signaling, new kinds of peptides that unaddicted people can't produce (???), something about phosphoration of camp ("new notes on camp") and bunch of change to "Dendritic Spiny Structures".

Among the living, questions like "drug-use reinstatement likelihood", "place conditioning preference" (the more addictive the drug, the more you want to use it in a safe, known place), increase in use over time, etc. are how this stuff is generally measured with reasonable economics.

Re:Vice Ventures is investing in taboo industries that other... by perl4ever on Sunday November 17, 2019 @11:27PM (#21561876)
I don't know how professionals define it, but it seems to me logical to define an addiction as something which people cannot stop even when it leads to financial, health, or other difficulty that affects normal functioning and/or relationships. That is, the short-term need for a fix overrides universal parts of living a healthy life.

This is not precise, but it seems like an appropriate metric. It's basically the same as defining mental illness in general vs. harmless eccentricity.

Re:Vice Ventures is investing in taboo industries that other... by smt88 on Thursday November 14, 2019 @08:51PM (#21541571)
> sex/porn and esports are both addicting

Sex is not similar to alcohol, tobacco, or pharmaceutical addictions.

You can have orgasms alone without purchasing anything. There's also debate about whether you can be addicted to sex. 1) It's a normal part of our lifecycles, 2) there's no withdrawal effect after you get off of it, and 3) it's a convenient way to pathologize bad behavior.

E-sports are game competitions, not video games in and of themselves. You can be no more addicted to them than you can be to the NBA.

Re:Vice Ventures is investing in taboo industries that other... by prvc on Friday November 15, 2019 @01:12AM (#21542654)
Exactly right, it's merely that they approve of the things that they are funding on some level.
Re:Vice Ventures is investing in taboo industries that other... by curiousgal on Thursday November 14, 2019 @03:54PM (#21539281)
If it's sex or drugs or any sort of addiction, the user is victim. With weapons, other people are the victim.
Re:Vice Ventures is investing in taboo industries that other... by nokcha on Thursday November 14, 2019 @04:14PM (#21539491)
>If it's sex or drugs or any sort of addiction, the user is victim. With weapons, other people are the victim.

At least in the US, a majority of deaths by firearm are suicides. And as for potentially addictive drugs (e.g., alcohol), the user can cause great harm to other people, as in drunk driving.

Re:Vice Ventures is investing in taboo industries that other... by ummwhat on Thursday November 14, 2019 @05:39PM (#21540284)
No. A plurality of the gun deaths are suicide (%33). Accidents and homicide add up to more.
Re:Vice Ventures is investing in taboo industries that other... by njarboe on Thursday November 14, 2019 @06:15PM (#21540574)
I don't think that is correct. This article[1] cites the CDC as stating that gun deaths in 2017 were 60% suicides, 37% murder and 3% other.

[1]https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/08/16/what-the-da...

Re:Vice Ventures is investing in taboo industries that other... by danShumway on Thursday November 14, 2019 @07:56PM (#21541279)
I think you have your stats reversed.

Fivethirtyeight says about 2/3 of gun deaths are suicides. Around 1/3 are homicides. A surprisingly small percentage (to me) are classified as accidents.[0]

[0]: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/gun-deaths/

Re:Vice Ventures is investing in taboo industries that other... by AngryData on Thursday November 14, 2019 @09:11PM (#21541660)
Im not entirely surprised accidents are low, the places with the most guns have strong gun culture who have learned and put into practice gun safety from a young age. Many of the older folks have taken shooting classes or done shooting sport while in school, many of the younger generation have taken hunter safety courses, and of course military service people throughout the entire time, and all would teach basic gun safety. You will be kicked off any range for not being safe and most anyone who owns guns will very quickly correct anybody not being safe.

The amount of people who know nothing about guns and never shot one under proper supervision and then go out and purchase a firearm without researching anything are extremely low, so accidents remain pretty low.

Re:Vice Ventures is investing in taboo industries that other... by catalogia on Thursday November 14, 2019 @11:29PM (#21542210)
Basic firearm safety instruction is part of it, and the other part is the general mechanical reliability of firearms. Modern firearms, as a general rule, will not fire themselves unless somebody or something interacts with them. Basic firearm safety instruction is often a short dogmatic set of rules[0] primarily focused on making sure people don't interact with the gun in a way that makes it likely to go off unintended. These two factors work together to keep people relatively safe from accidents around firearms most of the time.

There are some guns for which the basic dogmatic instruction is probably insufficient. Notably glocks; in some circles "glock" has become a verb, wherein to "glock yourself" means to accidentally shoot yourself in the leg with your glock while holstering or upholstering it. More specialized training can reduce the chances of this happening, but for this specific scenario and some others like it, the standard basic safety instructions fall a bit short in my opinion.

[0] One example: http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/safe_sur/acts-tpto-eng.ht... Other rulesets often have the same ideas worded in slightly different ways.

Re:Vice Ventures is investing in taboo industries that other... by im3w1l on Thursday November 14, 2019 @05:16PM (#21540079)
At the risk of stating the obvious: there is presently no war on US soil.
Re:Vice Ventures is investing in taboo industries that other... by mensetmanusman on Thursday November 14, 2019 @08:33PM (#21541472)
Society is a victim if there is a drug overdose and society has to pay for the cleanup.
Re:Vice Ventures is investing in taboo industries that other... by sdinsn on Thursday November 14, 2019 @04:13PM (#21539478)
Unless you use a weapon for self defense.
Re:Vice Ventures is investing in taboo industries that other... by homonculus1 on Friday November 15, 2019 @12:43PM (#21546898)
Self-defense doesn't exist according to HN. The SFPD should be good enough for anybody, which means all private guns are just murder waiting to happen.
Re:Vice Ventures is investing in taboo industries that other... by colejohnson66 on Friday November 15, 2019 @09:10PM (#21550503)
I think you’ll find that the political diversity here is quite wide. There’s people here against guns and people here who believe people have a right to own them.
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Re:Vice Ventures is investing in taboo industries that other... by AmericanChopper on Thursday November 14, 2019 @03:40PM (#21539163)
Their mission statement is investing in industries "facing funding and/or regulatory challenges because of social disapproval", but the unstated (or perhaps implied) political angle is they are focusing on industries that society doesn't approve of, but they do. Otherwise weapons, fossil fuels and surveillance tech would be on their list too. The obvious response to that is that those industries face disapproval because of a perceived harm to society, but all of the industries they list face disapproval for the exact same reason.
Re:Vice Ventures is investing in taboo industries that other... by klyrs on Thursday November 14, 2019 @03:48PM (#21539231)
I suspect that weapons producers don't have a shortage of investment opportunities. Their customers include militaries and police departments. And if it's "just politics," the finance industry skews right and the NRA is one of the most powerful lobbies in the US. If ivestors are distancing themselves from the gun industry, I'd assume that it's good ol' fiscal conservatism: mass shootings are on the rise and they don't want to touch that liability with a 10' pole.
Re:Vice Ventures is investing in taboo industries that other... by flyingfences on Thursday November 14, 2019 @03:58PM (#21539318)
Big, established arms companies have decent financial prospects. Firearms/accessories businesses in the startup space (or just small, local businesses) are frequently cold-shouldered out of opportunities.
Re:Vice Ventures is investing in taboo industries that other... by beat on Thursday November 14, 2019 @05:14PM (#21540048)
What we think of as startup-style capital, the kind that goes into software, is a hard sell for firearms manufacturers, because it's very difficult to get an edge, compared to software. Manufacturing is expensive, with a lot of up-front costs, and can't easily be scaled without a lot more up-front costs. Meanwhile, established deep-pockets competitors can just duplicate a successful product.

This is really about boutique/niche product manufacturing. There's usually not a reasonable path to becoming a billion-dollar company, at any degree of risk. That's what "startup capital" wants... to get in on the ground floor of a billion dollar company. They want that 100x return. You're not going to get a 100x return manufacturing a better rifle scope or a boutique handgun.

This is what banks are for. Start business on scraped capital, show real customers and real profit, then go to a traditional bank with a traditional business plan for scaling capital.

Re:Vice Ventures is investing in taboo industries that other... by AmericanChopper on Thursday November 14, 2019 @04:47PM (#21539836)
Industries dominated by a small number of very large players are typically what you'd call 'ripe for disruption'. Banking has never had a shortage of funding either, but banking and financial startups have only recently started to influence the industry. I didn't hear about anybody turning down Stripe because "finance sector is overfunded".
Re:Vice Ventures is investing in taboo industries that other... by yabadabadoes on Thursday November 14, 2019 @05:49PM (#21540368)
Stripe went into the payment gateway business, competing with perhaps 100 pretty small players for the side the big players don't want.

Make a consumer product banks can copy and try to prove its viable and I think you'll get that feedback.

Re:Vice Ventures is investing in taboo industries that other... by AmericanChopper on Thursday November 14, 2019 @06:18PM (#21540596)
Stripe, N26, SBV, Square, Brex, Monza... and many others all compete directly with banks.

That’s also very tangential to the fact that while some areas of banking, finance or weapons dealing may be dominated by large institutions, there’s plenty of other areas that are not. Stripe is a perfect example in how they started out by capturing a retail market that was outside the core business of the large players. Nobody would look at their value prop and say “finance is overfunded”, because that ignores what area they were actually trying to compete in.

If you wanted to make a startup that looked to innovate retail weapons trade, then no investor is going to tell you “you’ll never compete with Raytheon”, because no matter how big they are, they don’t compete in retail weapons trade. What they would more likely tell you is something like “we don’t invest in that vice industry”.

Re:Vice Ventures is investing in taboo industries that other... by Vector919 on Thursday November 14, 2019 @05:40PM (#21540292)
I think that's only true when the start up costs are relatively low, right? The airline industry also has a small number of very large players, but I don't know if we should also consider it ripe for disruption
Re:Vice Ventures is investing in taboo industries that other... by AmericanChopper on Thursday November 14, 2019 @06:00PM (#21540448)
The airline industry has already been massively disrupted by innovative startups and new investment. Startups have drastically changed the business of selling flights and travel services to consumers, the rise of budget airlines has completely changed the competitive landscape of that industry, and there’s countless ways that outside innovations have found their way into the supply chains of the big players.
Re:Vice Ventures is investing in taboo industries that other... by jay_kyburz on Thursday November 14, 2019 @03:44PM (#21539203)
I think your comment is interesting because it demonstrates how inadequate the left wing - right wing view of the world is. A lot of "left wing" energy is spent trying to kill the gambling and nicotine industry.
Re:Vice Ventures is investing in taboo industries that other... by flyingfences on Thursday November 14, 2019 @03:55PM (#21539292)
I guess I mean the "popular left/right" more than the "establishment left/right" especially when it comes to startups and unconventional investing.
Re:Vice Ventures is investing in taboo industries that other... by namewasmypw on Thursday November 14, 2019 @04:04PM (#21539399)
Not really. The left tends to oppose government restrictions, as opposed to the center and center-left (liberals).
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Re:Vice Ventures is investing in taboo industries that other... by namewasmypw on Thursday November 14, 2019 @05:47PM (#21540348)
Anarchists are not asking for any of those things. Liberals aren't leftists.
Re:Vice Ventures is investing in taboo industries that other... by mendelmaleh on Thursday November 14, 2019 @06:09PM (#21540530)
Todays leftists seem more communist than anarchist.
Re:Vice Ventures is investing in taboo industries that other... by Scoundreller on Thursday November 14, 2019 @03:17PM (#21538969)
I wonder if Walmart pays a higher commission on that portion of their business.
Re:Vice Ventures is investing in taboo industries that other... by flyingfences on Thursday November 14, 2019 @03:37PM (#21539138)
No, they're a "reputable business", i.e. large enough and well-enough established that they can't be bullied into submission.
Re:Vice Ventures is investing in taboo industries that other... by m-p-3 on Thursday November 14, 2019 @03:55PM (#21539290)
Yeah, Visa tried to keep their fee high, and I believe Wal-Mart won that fight in Canada (although they won't specifically say).

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/visa-walmart-1.3923039