Having 4 USB-C's is a bit like having 4 Ferraris. Sometimes you need something a bit more practical. People will still be using USB-A for the next 10 years. Having to use a dongle for USB-A on a 16" macbook is pretty ridiculous. There's still a billion USB-A accessories out there and will be for a long time. Apple jumped the gun in a major way. This wasn't like dropping the floppy disc or CD-rom drive considering how small the USB-A port is.

> People will still be using USB-A for the next 10 years.

Possibly. But they'll be using it for the next 100 if no one ever removes it from anything.

The floppy drive died because a better option came out. If USB-C is truly better, than all new accessories would use it.

There needs to be a transition period where everyone has USB-C and USB-A so that the peripherals can naturally move to the better technology.

Right now I've never seed a good USB-C to USB-A converter. I work at a lot of conferences, and any time a speaker comes with a new MacBook and a USB adaptor, it's a disaster. They all suck.

They removed USB-A about a year before they should have, but now the industry has moved on. We can talk about it as a mistake in the past, but it would be wack to put USB-A back onto these devices.

How can we say "the industry has moved on" when the second piece of media on the linked announcement page has someone doing music production with a visible USB-C -> USB-A dongle connecting some rack-eared music gear. There's even a second dongle on their left that I don't recognize. I long for the C-only future, but we're not there yet. Apple's decision to go C-only always seemed to be an aesthetic one to me.

That was true last year.

This year, it's been smooth sailing at every conference so far.

I literally dealt with a broken hub last week. I have no idea what you’re talking about.

That's been my experience: at every conference I've talked at this year (three so far: ESUG, Macoun and SPLASH, heise MacDev still coming up in December), I plug in my USB-C equipped MacBook Pro and It Just Works™.

Only one of those was an Apple-specific conference.

Sorry your experience is still different. Mine was, too, a year ago.

If people actually started using electronics for 100 years instead of throwing them out every few years, that would be fantastic. It would also be a very radical departure from the status quo and I don't think it a likely scenario, so rest easy I guess..

While it may be fun to try to design something that lasts s hundred years and that people will want to use in a hundred years, who would want to sell it?

I'm not sure I see the problem - if it works and people are happy why not?

I agree.

As the guy who gave up my laptop( MacBook pro 2015) in a meeting to project because the 2 other MacBooks in the meeting only had usb c and the presentation was on a usb a stick.

At least they got the projector using usb c with a dongle now..

Nothing like having choices. Why my new personal machine was a linux based laptop.

There are still devices currently that use floppy disks. The only accessory I have that uses hardwired USB-A is my Logitech C920 webcam. All other stuff has a detachable cable. I will just change the USB-A to (Micro)USB-B cable to USB-C to (Micro)USB-B

The USB A port is very large compared to USB C. Especially in terms of volume.

On a Macbook Air, maybe, but they can definitely fit one on a 16" device.

While sacrificing something else. Battery, speakers, thermal management, or aesthetics would have to traded off for USB A to be included. Not worth it for an outdated port whose function can be duplicated by an inexpensive adapter.

Again, on a small device, yes every mm matters. On a 16" devices, the slightly bigger connector isn't going to make a difference.

If you were Apple's only user, you might have a point. But you're not.

Music professionals, video professionals, photographic professionals, and plenty of other professionals all have collections of USB peripherals which aren't going to be updated any time soon - either because there are no USB-C replacements, or because a complete replacement program might easily run to four figures, edging up to five for some users, and in extreme cases will be as high as six.

Some of these people tour or travel a lot. Having to rely on dongles - which can be lost, or stolen, or which may stop working for random reasons - is very much not a good idea.

Telling these professionals to "deal with it" is unhelpfully obtuse.

Speaking as one of those people, dongles don't bother me in the least. You're absolutely right that many peripherals are prohibitively expensive to update just for a connector, but they're also bulky and usually already involve lots of other cabling, so adding a dongle really doesn't make a big difference. Plus we're all used to having dongles just to hold license data anyway (thanks, Pro Tools), not to mention the menagerie of adapters that have been a way of life for decades in the audio world.

I think this person was saying to replace the cables, not replace the peripherals or use dongles.

Yup. I DJ and use cameras all the time, so I'm not just a guy checking his Facebook. I swapped cables and have zero issues now. For every cable type there's now a USB-C equivalent for cheap on Amazon or Aliexpress. People just want to find something to complain about.

Edit: Before anyone mentions that ‘now you need to bring cables’...When I DJ I always bring a bunch of spare cables anyway, because I don't what to rely on the location for providing me what I need. So I did this with my old mac too. Nothing changed except the type of cable.

maybe they should be complaining to the peripheral manufacturers rather than Apple. USB C is better and a major player going all in is the only way to get the industry to switch.

> Things change, deal with it

Things do change, but change for the sake of change isn't a good thing.

Meanwhile, I can use all 4 ports to: - Run a display With a dongle

- Charge my laptop Did you need 4 ports to do this? How is this better than a magsafe connector?

- Charge a phone Existing USB ports do this fine, and most charger cables have USB-A on one end. USB-C-USB-C cables are extremely limited in their use and are more expensive.

- Connect a drive Again, no advantage over USB-A

Apple has "solved" non-existent problems and in exchange they've created a whole new slew of problems. Why should I have to replace all my existing cables to work with a computer? It's because Apple is designing for slim cases above all else. (So slim and delicate that resting my hand on the case while typing causes random keypresses).

I broke an early macbook screen by tripping over the charging cable. When they made the switch to magsafe cables it was to explicitly prevent this very common occurrence. They traded trip-proof laptops for the ability to plug your charger into 4 different ports. What possible advantage could that offer?

> Charge my laptop Did you need 4 ports to do this? How is this better than a magsafe connector?

Being able to charge on either side is really, really nice. I miss MagSafe, sure, but this mostly makes up for it. I can also run my laptop off the ubiquitous USB-C battery packs now, which is glorious.

USB-C-USB-C are going to be much more ubiquitous too, especially when the iPhone switches next cycle.

Here’s your magsafe solution, it took seconds to find: https://www.amazon.com/Magnetic-Charging-Compatible-Interfac...

Oh good, another attachment to buy.

it’s $23, available online with free next day in most cases. further the massive downside to the old magsafe adapters is how proprietary they were and that they were soldered to the brick. if one frayed on you, as they did all the time, all you could do is go to the apple store. if you travel for work this becomes a massive liability. if this cable cost $100, was useless on other devices and you didn’t have to carry a usb-c cable in the first place then i can see your point. but when you buy a $3000+ laptop then complain about a $30 cable then it becomes hard to take you seriously.

> Things change, deal with it.

Other companies have dealt with change better than Apple. For example, I can buy a professional tier laptop from Microsoft or Lenovo with plenty of USB ports, while Apple's reaction to change has been to ignore their professional users' use-cases.

And you can’t compare an Apple to anything non-Apple. So as far as Apple laptops go, USB-C, adaptor or forget it. You can get adaptors so small you barely notice them. I’d rather have 4 USB-C ports than 3 because they scrapped the bandwidth of one to put in a old port. Most people keep apple laptops for years, and I doubt we’ll be using standard USB much longer

> And you can’t compare an Apple to anything non-Apple.

There are plenty of professional users doing just that.

For example, I can get my job done on a Lenovo just as well as on a Macbook, until I need to plug in a USB peripheral. Then, I can do my job better on the Lenovo than the Macbook.

and for the rest of the world where windows is a hinderance you can’t compare them. As a pro user i barely plug anything into my laptop now, just one usb-c cable connects my monitor, charger, keyboard / mouse (usb, not bluetooth) and gives me a few more usb ports. in fact this is better because i can shove my laptop in a pocket behind the monitor and not take up room.

every time apple changes someone people who don’t even use apples come out of the woodwork to complain.

Then go and buy one of those laptops. Use what works for you.

Just because you’re not a fan of it doesn’t mean it isn’t a solid solution for the rest of us. And the rest of us mostly like having change forced on us — it means we’re progressing forward instead of shouting at clouds for being in the way of the sun.

You're repeating the OP's "deal with it" sentiment. I'm sharing how other companies have dealt with it, and offer similar professional tier laptops with more USB ports.

Sure. So buy those laptops?

I'm not having a go at you directly, I'm having a go at the idea that it's constructive to even point out how a piece of hardware doesn't solve a problem for you and that there are others options. We know.

> I'm having a go at the idea that it's constructive to even point out how a piece of hardware doesn't solve a problem for you

I'm going to have to disagree, the lack of USB ports doesn't solve a problem. It's just a limitation that doesn't affect you, but certainly affects other professionals and their ability to do their jobs efficiently.

> Those professionals should not pick this tool if it does not solve their problems. I'm confused as to how this isn't clear.

I'm not sure why you're under the impression that individuals get to choose what computers their employers issue them.

Not all of us get to choose the computers we use to do our jobs. I've had several company issued Macbooks, and have worked in Mac-only offices.

You can't just change the goal posts to cause your argument to have more weight. This entire post has nothing to do with where you work or work at all: it's to do with a consumer laptop being released and you know right well we're talking about buying this for personal use.

The GP of the OP I responded to was talking about his profession and every post I have made in this thread was about professional users and their ability to do their jobs. How you can walk away from this conversation thinking that I was talking about personal use is beyond me.

>Just because you’re not a fan of it doesn’t mean it isn’t a solid solution for the rest of us.

Leaving out USB-A ports isn't a solution for you though, it's just a limitation that affects some people but not you.

>And the rest of us mostly like having change forced on us — it means we’re progressing forward instead of shouting at clouds for being in the way of the sun.

This just stinks of fanboyism, any time Apple makes a big hardware change like removing the headphone jack from iPhones, it's mostly negative voices disliking the change. The heat eventually dies down and people adapt, but it's revisionist history to imply people like having the change forced on them at the time.

> Leaving out USB-A ports isn't a solution for you

USB-C is faster than USB-A. Eventually all technology becomes obsolete and it's time to move on. Removing USB-A and forcing me to switch to USB-C is helping me adopt a technology that is popping up everywhere.

I believe modern smart phones now charge via USB-C? A colleague in work also has a power brick that can charge his laptop via USB-C.

USB-C is here and we'll only move over to it if we start implementing it. Use an adapter if you're not in a position to swap out A->C for a while.

> This just stinks of fanboyism ...

And this is just a shallow insult, hence why you've been down voted.

> ... like removing the headphone jack from iPhones ...

Which other manufacturers immediately did too.

> ... but it's revisionist history to imply people like having the change forced on them at the time.

The iceberg is melting. The cheese is being moved. It's time to change and for the better. It's easier to be comfortable and complacent, but that's not how reality works.

I don't want to research and keep up with the latest in IO technologies. I trust Apple to make good choices for me so I can get on with solving problems. That works out for me in a positive way far more than it impacts me negatively.

I'll continue with a (roughly) five year cycle for upgrading my MBP and a two year cycle for my iPhone. And I'll continue to trust that Apple's engineers are smarter than me and are making intelligent choices for me.

You're free to not trust them and do as you wish.

EDIT: In fact I'm actually finding it annoying how most new devices are USB-C and I don't have USB-C on my 2014 MBP. I want USB-C as power bricks, HDDs, pen drives, and more, are switching over (because it's the right then to do). Very soon I will be obsolete and you'll be telling me I need to move on...

You can also use one USB-C to both charge your Macbook and drive a powerful 4k monitor plus a few extra USB-A ports on the back of the monitor.

Being able to come to work and plug in a single cord and have it drive my mechanical keyboard, headphone amp, monitor, and power is pretty amazing IMO.

I have this exact setup on the Thinkpad in front of me. It is great, and it's hilarious to see my phone's lockscreen pop up on the screen when I end up charging it with that cable.

You know what else this laptop has? Two ports I don't recognize (thunderbolt and dock?) on the left, and on the right, two USB-A, ethernet, SD card reader, HDMI, and headphone jack. It's a false dichotomy to say that you can only get the one-port connection by throwing away all the other ports you might need.

No one made that dichotomy, idk who you guys are arguing against.

If you don’t want Apple products cool. I personally have no need for Ethernet, sd card readers, and USB A 24/7. Like I said elsewhere this is a non problem for me.

Obviously if it is for you you can buy a giant dell laptop with 20 ports.

>>Being able to come to work and plug in a single cord and have it drive my mechanical keyboard, headphone amp, monitor, and power is pretty amazing IMO.

Just imagine having a dock, and not needing to plug any cords :-)

Also, like most things Apple removed (I'm looking at you, 3.5mm), how has the removal enabled your use case?

To put it other way: you could have everything you outlined even if they had magsafe + USB-A

but with removal of those things, we can't have things we want/need/desire, for no appreciable gain to you.

After 4yrs of using USB-C I don't have any USB-A stuff besides a single microsd card reader for an DSLR camera. Otherwise I have no use for a USB-A.

If I did I have two tiny adapters in my drawer... my office has a few of them if anyone needs them but I've never seen them used there either.

But that would still be possible if they added a USB-A to the laptop.

Like the original iMac eliminating SCSI, DIN-8 serial and ADB for USB-A, the point of removing old ports is to ensure support for the new ones. Local pain, long term gain. (Uh, once they sort out the many flavors using the USB-C form factor.)

All of those ports were already on the decline because their replacements already existed and were better. Every one of those ports existed on a machine with its replacement at some point.

Apple never made a machine with both USB-C and USB-A. They never allowed for a transition.

Because of that, people aren’t moving forward because they are holding back upgrades.

OP never heard of a USB hub

I’ve never seen a USB-C hub that works consistently.

So you're saying you only need one USB-C port... whereas the Macbook Pro has 4 and not a single USB-A one.

At work I've only used one.

At home I bought a 2 pack of USB-C to USB-A the size of a quarter and never had a problem... only because I don't want to buy a new SD-card reader. But now even my external harddrive is USB-C (and incredibly fast/tiny at that) I almost never use them.

https://www.amazon.com/Upgraded-Basesailor-Compatible-Charge...

I really don't get what the big deal is. A $9 purchase which I now use less and less as more products adopt USB-c...

I agree that it would be nice if everything were USB-C, including my 2019 iPhone XS, which I connect to my 2017 MBP with a third-party adapter.

My wife just got an iPhone Pro Max. The cable was a lightning to USB C cable and the charger has a USB C port only.

I’d bet money Apple will move to USB C iPhones at some point. HN would go crazy considering all the negativity around any Apple announcement.

You could just use a lightning to usb-c Apple-cable instead ... No need for an adapter.

If Apple had provided me the cables to connect the current generation of their two products to each other, I would use them.

The current generation "Pro" line iPhones ship with lightning to USB C cables that connect to the current generation "Pro" line MacBooks.

Read my other comment. They do ship USB C to lightning cables on the newest iPhones.

Things change. I still have FireWire cables and external drive enclosures.

The new AirPods Pro come with lightning to USB-C. If the new phones aren't USB-C, they'll definitely have USB-C to lightning at least. Although realistically it'll be USB-C to USB-C (see iPad Pro)

It seems that Apple's hand-holding doesn't go far enough for some customers :-)

I’m not sure you understand. Shouldn’t the people who want to plug their new iPhone into their new laptop be less inconvenienced when those products are all from Apple, not more inconvenienced? People with modern Thinkpads could use their iPhone out of the box while those with MBPs could not.

If Apple can’t be bothered, what a strange thing to blame me for.

I don't blame anyone. I just find you amusing.

I agree with the ridiculousness of it all, but to be fair, there is no such thing as a 2019 iPhone XS. It's a 2018 iPhone XS regardless of when it was purchased or manufactured, although that honestly just makes your situation even more ridiculous.

I liked charging and connecting displays from both sides.

What I didn’t like was that over three or four of the Apple USB-C to hdmi/usb-a/whatever the last one was (thunderbolt?) and one third party adapter I never found one that wasn’t super choppy with my input.

So my Webcam would stutter, and my keyboard would suddenly repeating the same key 12 times (admittedly making for a pretty exciting experience with ViM).

Very frustrating. It may have been my computer. Don’t think I’d heard of others with the same issues in my workplace. But really made working a PITA sometimes for me.

Meanwhile my 2015 MBP did just fine with the same hub through switch setup, so it was most likely the USB C hardware driver in the Apple Laptop.

I think it's key you have 4 ports. I think the very small number of ports and requirement of dongles in order to get enough ports (and lack of USB-C hub) perpetuates USB.

If you have 1 or 2 USB-C ports odds are you'll need a dongle. Since the only USB-C dongles don't multiply ports, it'll have multiple USB ports. If you had a lot of USB-C ports, you'd likely get adapters and switch to USB-C as you upgraded things. Now, unless you can switch to wireless, you basically have to replace it with a USB device.

> I now need to daisy chain converters to use my PS/2 mouse on my MacBook Pro though, so that's a bit of a hassle.

Out of curiosity, what PS/2 mouse do you use?

> Things change, deal with it

That argument can be used to explain away any problem.

4 usb ports are massively redundant. Even if someone loves usb-C having a usb-A port will add a lot of usability without compromising on anything else.