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Re:Games with Famous Bad Translations into Japanese by corey_moncure on Sunday November 10, 2019 @09:48PM (#21501744)
I've seen Let's Plays of the Japanese translation of Portal and felt that it misses the sardonic notes of GLaDOS' script, and as a result falls completely flat. In my opinion, this aspect is essential to the Portal experience. It's not that I couldn't think of how to express certain lines in Japanese, rather it just seemed that the translation team didn't get the jokes at all.

That said, translating jokes can be very, very difficult. Sometimes you're lucky and there's a low hanging fruit to grab, a pun that works in both source and target languages, or a similar idiom that's recognizable if you switch out a word with another one in the same category. All too often with language pairs as distant as English and Japanese, you just end up writing your own joke.

Having grown up with "spoony bard", "this guy are sick" and many other memorable zingers, it is somehow ironic, somehow comforting, to know that bad translations aren't a one-way street.

Re:Games with Famous Bad Translations into Japanese by gambiting on Monday November 11, 2019 @03:49AM (#21503114)
I remember being shocked when I watched Shrek for the first time in English - all the jokes were different than how I remembered it(I watched it in Polish for the first time)! But well, thinking about it, that makes perfect sense - English jokes translated literally into Polish wouldn't have been anywhere near as funny - so the translators took a bit of a creative liberty and changed them to work with Polish audiences, even inserting some Polish pop-culture references where appropriate. And yeah, I remember it being incredibly funny and in comparison the English version is just....different(not to mention all the voices are just....wrong lol).

It brings up an interesting question though - do we care about the outcome(the film being funny) or about being "correct". After all, Polish translation of Shakespeare doesn't change the meaning just to be more relatable to Poles. But then again, books like Harry Potter had plenty of changes to work in Polish(like the Sphinx's riddle being completely different in Polish just so it would make any sense - I would argue that one was kind of necessary though).

Re:Games with Famous Bad Translations into Japanese by sersi on Monday November 11, 2019 @06:13AM (#21503833)
I remember as a kid seeing an representation of Shakespeare's Twelfth's night in French as a kid and the meaning was changed so that the jokes would work in French. Likewise, it was made to rhyme in French. I do believe that even in older works, it makes more sense to translate in a creative way. After all, those works were written to convey comedy or poetry and if a translation fails to convey that, then the translation failed.

Likewise, when Baudelaire translated Edgar Poe, the translation literal as it would have been a failure to convey the poetry of the text.

Re:Games with Famous Bad Translations into Japanese by shawabawa3 on Monday November 11, 2019 @11:10AM (#21505943)
I've actually heard that french translations of shakespeare are "better" than the english originals, as they modernise it a bit, whereas the english version is left in an archaic form of english where a lot of the rhymes and puns no longer work
Re:Games with Famous Bad Translations into Japanese by sersi on Monday November 11, 2019 @12:14PM (#21506564)
That's a good point. One could argue that Shakespeare's early modern English feels like a different dialect of English and as such would be better translated during representations...
Re:Games with Famous Bad Translations into Japanese by eru on Monday November 11, 2019 @07:19AM (#21504203)
> (not to mention all the voices are just....wrong lol).

Happens to me with the Simpsons.

Re:Games with Famous Bad Translations into Japanese by iainmerrick on Monday November 11, 2019 @05:36AM (#21503640)
Douglas Hofstadter's Le Ton beau de Marot is a great read, and discusses these issues in depth. (Hofstadter is strongly on the side of creative rather than literal translations.)
Re:Games with Famous Bad Translations into Japanese by AnIdiotOnTheNet on Sunday November 10, 2019 @10:40PM (#21501942)
I'm not entirely sure you meant it that way, but "spoony bard" is not a bad translation, as evidenced by its inclusion in every official translation of FF4 since Woolsey's. The bard is indeed spoony[0], and it is the kind of archaic language you might expect from an old man like Tellah.

[0]https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/spoony

Re:Games with Famous Bad Translations into Japanese by fenomas on Monday November 11, 2019 @12:59AM (#21502518)
The dialog in question is being said in a fit of rage, to someone that the speaker believes has seduced and stolen his daughter, leading to her death. Using a comically archaic term for "unduly sentimental" in a spot like that is certainly a bad translation.
Re:Games with Famous Bad Translations into Japanese by PhasmaFelis on Monday November 11, 2019 @12:46AM (#21502465)
Unless you're actually writing a Shakespeare send-up, using a centuries-obsolete word is definitely bad translation. Just because a word is in the dictionary doesn't mean it means it means anything to your audience.

It's still included because it's an iconic gag at this point. It's still a bad translation, but they know fans love it, and that's okay.

Re:Games with Famous Bad Translations into Japanese by hapless on Sunday November 10, 2019 @11:57PM (#21502258)
It's a correct translation, but funny because of its stilted language.

It would have been merely old-timey in Japanese, but in English it's rendered as centuries-old vernacular. "Spoony" ceased to be common language in the 19th century. "Bard" in the 18th, except in limited senses referencing archaic usage. No one is that old!

It's not wrong, just a little too far.

Re:Games with Famous Bad Translations into Japanese by AnIdiotOnTheNet on Monday November 11, 2019 @08:20AM (#21504587)
You'll note that in the fantasy genre, such archaic words as bard are actually quite common, so I don't think 'spoony' is ridiculous at all. It is not uncommon for media to use completely made up words, why is pulling a single instance of an archaic one "too far"?
Re:Games with Famous Bad Translations into Japanese by amyjess on Monday November 11, 2019 @10:35AM (#21505629)
If the original translation was punched-up all the way through, I might be inclined to agree, but it wasn't. It was the only archaism in a game that was otherwise translated into modern English. The only version of FF4 to have a punched-up TL was the 3D version (only available on DS/PC/iOS/Android). If it had debuted there, it might not have been too out of place, but it was certainly out of place in FF2u.

And as fenomas pointed out, it was exclaimed in a fit of violent rage. That is not the kind of thing one would bark out in a situation like that.

The reason why it's in every single FF4 translation is because it's such a ludicrously bad translation that it came out the other side and ended up funny. It wasn't intended to be a comedic scene, but it's become one in the minds of English-speaking fans.

(Also, Woolsey never translated FF4... he just did FF6, plus a TL of FF5 that never saw the light of day because Square pulled the plug on the US release on account of the game being "too complicated" for Americans. And while Woolsey is a master of dialogue who contributed a lot of iconic lines, his Japanese comprehension was actually pretty poor, and his FF6 introduced a number of plot holes that weren't in the JP version. The GBA translation is objectively better, and if you want both a good TL _and_ Woolsey's dialogue, there's a romhack out there called the Ted Woolsey Uncensored Edition that combines the most iconic lines from Woolsey's script with a translation based on Legends of Localization's thorough analysis of the script.)

Re:Games with Famous Bad Translations into Japanese by AnIdiotOnTheNet on Monday November 11, 2019 @10:44AM (#21505716)
I still don't get where people are coming from on this. It's a fictional reality filled with fictional physics and a bunch of made up words. But a technically-correct archaism gets everyone's panties in a twist?

Also, I honestly thought Woolsey wrote that line because it was so his style. Apparently this is a common misconception.

Re:Games with Famous Bad Translations into Japanese by amyjess on Monday November 11, 2019 @11:04AM (#21505890)
So, out of curiosity, I looked up the original Japanese, and it's also just a total non sequitor in English but the original Japanese line actually follows from the conversation.

https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/You_spoony_bard!

> Tellah

> original: きさま あの時の吟遊詩人! きさまのせいでアンナは!

> literal: You! You're that damn bard! Because of you, Anna's...! (The word used for both instances of "you" is "kisama", the single rudest way to say "you" in Japanese. Because of its harshness, "kisama" is somewhat akin to "you bastard" or "you son of a bitch" in English.)

> SNES: You're the bard! You did this to her!

> Edward

> !?

> Tellah

> original: きさま よくも娘を・・・・

> literal: How dare you do this to my daughter... (Again, "kisama" is used for "you".)

> SNES: You swindler!

> Edward

> original: ちがうんです!

> literal: It's not like that!

> SNES: Please! Listen!

> Tellah

> original: なにがちがうと いうのだ!

> literal: How the hell could it not be like that!?

> SNES: You spoony bard!

I'm all for localizations that take liberties with the translation (see: the best parts of Woolsey's dialogue in FF6), but looking at this in context, it makes no sense. Woolsey's famous lines, like "Welcome to my barbecue!", belonged in context and didn't look out of place. This is just a non sequitor.

If you asked me to give a localized angry response to "Please! Listen!", I'd probably go with something like "I'm not listening to YOU!". Or if I wanted to be silly with it, "Why would I do that, bard-brain?" (OK, I'm not the best dialogue writer...).

Re:Games with Famous Bad Translations into Japanese by AnIdiotOnTheNet on Monday November 11, 2019 @11:12AM (#21505955)
So you're saying that you find it odd that someone would express their desire not to listen to someone else by actually not listening to them and just continuing to insult them?
Re:Games with Famous Bad Translations into Japanese by reificator on Sunday November 10, 2019 @10:03PM (#21501791)
Ouch. Portal is one of my favorites, but partly because I really loved GLaDOS. (Genetic Lifeform and Disk Operating System)

Without her constant prodding at you, I think the game would lose both charm and player motivation. I'd imagine the pacing takes a hit as a result.

Here's one of my favorite examples of a bad translation to English: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFg6QOlV-EE

It's an NES game, but before I spoil it for you, try to figure out which one by letting the music play out.

Re:Games with Famous Bad Translations into Japanese by JimiofEden on Sunday November 10, 2019 @10:13PM (#21501837)
I quote that Congalturation screen when my wife completes a game (great or otherwise.) In return, she got me a book of bad translations/localizations for our anniversary.
Re:Games with Famous Bad Translations into Japanese by gnarbarian on Sunday November 10, 2019 @11:01PM (#21502034)
GHOST BUSTERS
Re:Games with Famous Bad Translations into Japanese by pdpi on Monday November 11, 2019 @07:06AM (#21504097)
> All too often with language pairs as distant as English and Japanese, you just end up writing your own joke.

There's a few specific cases of this that I quite like — the English translations of Asterix did a tremendous job of renaming all the characters in a way that's consistent with the spirit of the (idiomatically french) original jokes.

A personal favourite of mine, though, is a particular dialogue from Austin Powers[1] where the Portuguese subtitles found a joke that was just not there in the original. "It's a bit nutty" doesn't have a good idiomatic translation, so they instead translated it as "Tem muita borra" — Literally, "there's a lot of grounds in this", but "borra" can be read as either "grounds" or "poop".

1. https://www.moviequotedb.com/movies/austin-powers-the-spy-wh...

Re:Games with Famous Bad Translations into Japanese by eru on Monday November 11, 2019 @07:18AM (#21504194)
The German names for the Asterix characters are also great.

And you can get translations of some of the comics into various German dialects as well.

Re:Games with Famous Bad Translations into Japanese by xii22 on Monday November 11, 2019 @02:00AM (#21502776)
On your Portal point, the reason for that is that sarcasm as humor is not really a 'thing' in Japan, in general terms. Some people go as far as saying that the Japanese do not understand sarcasm, but that's an exaggeration
Re:Games with Famous Bad Translations into Japanese by fiblye on Monday November 11, 2019 @07:11AM (#21504138)
Yeah, it’s generally just regarded as mean.

On the contrary, I’ve found it’s something that most other Asian countries get really well, so the difficulty seems to mostly be limited to Japan.

Re:Games with Famous Bad Translations into Japanese by ibatindev on Sunday November 10, 2019 @10:28PM (#21501889)
Totally! I thought Portal 2 was going to be the perfect game to play when I had spare time in the office but without GLaDOS's clever lines -and the way it says them- it wasn't even enjoyable.