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Re:Lots of Job Hunting, but No Job, Despite Low Unemployment by JoeAltmaier on Thursday October 31, 2019 @12:05PM (#21410238)
Right! Engineers driving busses; office managers flipping burgers. And the administration dares to call it 'full employment'.

Its part of the very wealthy keeping all the money - if nobody has a skilled job, we don't get (much) income, and wealth inequality zooms onward.

A better measure of employment would be, how much total payroll is across the country. Per capita if you like. That would tell us how we're doing. Not just a total of whom 'has a job'.

Re:Lots of Job Hunting, but No Job, Despite Low Unemployment by chooseaname on Thursday October 31, 2019 @12:15PM (#21410361)
> Its part of the very wealthy keeping all the money ...

When does it start trickling down Mr Reagan?! When does it start trickling down!?

Re:Lots of Job Hunting, but No Job, Despite Low Unemployment by chewz on Thursday October 31, 2019 @01:25PM (#21411316)
Stealing is the only sure way to make trickle down economy work.
Re:Lots of Job Hunting, but No Job, Despite Low Unemployment by VladimirIvanov on Thursday October 31, 2019 @05:56PM (#21414136)
When corporations stop using stock buybacks as a tax free mechanism to return value to shareholders
Re:Lots of Job Hunting, but No Job, Despite Low Unemployment by rileymat2 on Thursday October 31, 2019 @09:19PM (#21415478)
I believe buybacks have the same long term capital gain consequences as dividends, currently. The party who sells stock at a profit will pay tax, it is not tax free.

Buybacks allow shareholders to time capital gain better.

Re:Lots of Job Hunting, but No Job, Despite Low Unemployment by Aeolun on Thursday October 31, 2019 @08:54PM (#21415335)
It’s already tricking down. Just not anywhere near enough to make a difference.
Re:Lots of Job Hunting, but No Job, Despite Low Unemployment by crdoconnor on Thursday October 31, 2019 @12:06PM (#21410258)
Somewhat ironic since we were told in no uncertain terms that automation would cause the exact opposite to happen.
Re:Lots of Job Hunting, but No Job, Despite Low Unemployment by pjc50 on Thursday October 31, 2019 @12:13PM (#21410339)
"Service" roles have been put in a weird state where, because they involve relating to humans, they're difficult to automate. But because they involve doing what you're told, with low room for autonomy and creativity, they're low-status and therefore low paid.
Re:Lots of Job Hunting, but No Job, Despite Low Unemployment by BurningFrog on Thursday October 31, 2019 @12:22PM (#21410461)
> they're low-status and therefore low paid.

Pretty sure it's mostly the other way: They're low status because they're low paid.

Jobs are low paid when there is a big supply of people who can and want to do them. Which is pretty much equivalent to the jobs being low skilled.

Since everyone can flip a burger, you don't have to pay much to find someone to do it.

Re:Lots of Job Hunting, but No Job, Despite Low Unemployment by lotsofpulp on Thursday October 31, 2019 @12:29PM (#21410573)
Additionally, the demand may not be sufficient to support higher wages. Even if no one is willing to flip a burger for less than $50 per hour, who is willing to pay for a burger flipped by someone earning $50 per hour?
Re:Lots of Job Hunting, but No Job, Despite Low Unemployment by CydeWeys on Thursday October 31, 2019 @07:46PM (#21414981)
And yet people are totally willing to contribute to servers earning much more than $50/hr in tips (on busy nights). $50/hr spread across a lot of customers works out to not actually being that much per customer.

Admittedly this is relatively expensive sit-down restaurant service we're talking about here, which is different from the fast food market.

Re:Lots of Job Hunting, but No Job, Despite Low Unemployment by crdoconnor on Thursday October 31, 2019 @02:23PM (#21411969)
You typically have to pay a lot more if public sector jobs and wages aren't being cut.
Re:Lots of Job Hunting, but No Job, Despite Low Unemployment by cannonedhamster on Thursday October 31, 2019 @04:25PM (#21413346)
It would be trivial to replace servers, but there's an initial cost investment most restaurants can't afford. The obvious transition is those screens you see popping up everywhere. It's going to be the next step are conveyer belts that deliver the food to your table. Industrial automation already exists for this. Need to send it back open the receptacle click the screen to say what's wrong and your order will come back correct.
Re:Lots of Job Hunting, but No Job, Despite Low Unemployment by rmrm on Thursday October 31, 2019 @06:04PM (#21414221)
Except you would need to remodel every exusting restaraunt to have conveyer belts behind false walls. This isnt the next step, it will not happen. Walk up windows for ordering and numbers are already increasing. That is the next step for reducing server numbers.
Re:Lots of Job Hunting, but No Job, Despite Low Unemployment by edoo on Thursday October 31, 2019 @12:17PM (#21410384)
Capitalism sees most the productivity gains to the workers. I think our experiment has failed and it is time to try capitalism again. Our country hasn't seen it for over 100 years.
Re:Lots of Job Hunting, but No Job, Despite Low Unemployment by tmaly on Friday November 01, 2019 @10:01AM (#21418878)
I think you mean laissez faire capitalism
Re:Lots of Job Hunting, but No Job, Despite Low Unemployment by Frost1x on Thursday October 31, 2019 @02:10PM (#21411836)
That sounds like communist socialist facist nazi etc. propaganda to me...

...at least that's the knee-jerk defense you hear from the priests of our current system (most mislead or benefiting from the corruption). If you don't support our current broken form of capitalism, you're labeled a blasphemer.

Heaven forbid we, as a society, re-evaluate the functionality of something adopted hundreds of years ago and adapt/change it without offering an impossibly proven successful alternative. Because, you know, the current economic system we have was proven successful before it was adopted.

It won't necessarily be trivial or painless but it will be less painful than it will at a later date, unless we want to pass the burden down to future generations.

Re:Lots of Job Hunting, but No Job, Despite Low Unemployment by edoo on Thursday October 31, 2019 @02:33PM (#21412086)
Since they instituted the communist economic system that makes it impossible to save capital by draining the purchasing power of the currency at an exponential rate the working class has been on a steep downhill decline. I think it is pretty obvious at this point the experiment has failed.
Re:Lots of Job Hunting, but No Job, Despite Low Unemployment by perl4ever on Thursday October 31, 2019 @08:10PM (#21415104)
I'm sure this will convince nobody of anything, but inflation in the US in July was 1.8% (annualized) in July, and a Vanguard money market fund was yielding 1.9% recently.

What more can you ask, whether you're ranting in favor of or against socialism? Risk free returns maintain your purchasing power, while at the same time, you get essentially nothing for taking no risk with capital. This seems exactly how it should work in a perfect system...doesn't it?

Re:Lots of Job Hunting, but No Job, Despite Low Unemployment by lotsofpulp on Friday November 01, 2019 @09:31AM (#21418548)
I know all the academic work that goes into calculating inflation, but it’s never tracked to my comings and goings in a very high COL area. My health insurance premiums alone just increased 10%, not even counting the increases in deductible, copay, and oop max.
Re:Lots of Job Hunting, but No Job, Despite Low Unemployment by perl4ever on Friday November 01, 2019 @07:03PM (#21424623)
I was just reading a news article that claimed ACA premiums are down like 4%. Then again, now that I have an employer-provided plan (since about 5 months ago) (that appears to be worse than the ACA option) it's going up noticeably for 2020.

The smallest reform to the healthcare system that I think would be substantially beneficial, is just to let ACA plans compete for employed people on an equal basis. It's unreasonable that once you have a job then you have to pay way more for a marketplace plan. I'm nowhere near my deductible for the forseeable future, but certain office visits doubled in price just because I have a job with a temp agency that provides shitty insurance that effectively disqualifies me for an ACA plan.

Re:Lots of Job Hunting, but No Job, Despite Low Unemployment by tmaly on Friday November 01, 2019 @10:03AM (#21418915)
There are serious consequences to calculating inflation.

If the published number spikes, so does the COL adjustments for social security. This would easily put the government underwater.

Re:Lots of Job Hunting, but No Job, Despite Low Unemployment by xkde on Thursday October 31, 2019 @12:18PM (#21410401)
I don’t know any engineers driving busses (or the equivalent). The company I’m working for is currently looking for a lot of new ones, too.
Re:Lots of Job Hunting, but No Job, Despite Low Unemployment by non-entity on Thursday October 31, 2019 @12:34PM (#21410631)
They may not be driving busses, but from what I've heard people like Electrical engineers and some others often have difficulty finding work.
Re:Lots of Job Hunting, but No Job, Despite Low Unemployment by lotsofpulp on Thursday October 31, 2019 @12:37PM (#21410668)
An additional complication is availability of work may be concentrating in fewer geographic regions. There very well may be a shortage of engineers for engineering jobs, but not in the same place. And yet another complication is the perception of long term security of available jobs might be less than before, so moving for one is not an easy decision.
Re:Lots of Job Hunting, but No Job, Despite Low Unemployment by non-entity on Thursday October 31, 2019 @12:43PM (#21410731)
Ah yes I forgot to add that I'm speaking from a US perspective. I'm recalling a comment I read on HN a while back claiming that a lot of the EE jobs moved to east Asia as the manufacturing already went there
Re:Lots of Job Hunting, but No Job, Despite Low Unemployment by xkde on Thursday October 31, 2019 @12:46PM (#21410766)
And what do you propose we do about that?
Re:Lots of Job Hunting, but No Job, Despite Low Unemployment by lotsofpulp on Thursday October 31, 2019 @12:54PM (#21410887)
I have no idea. Wealth transfer? Training programs? Basic income?
Re:Lots of Job Hunting, but No Job, Despite Low Unemployment by throwaway34241 on Friday November 01, 2019 @02:17AM (#21416608)
Maybe we should build lots of housing around (at least some of) the areas where economic opportunity is concentrated. Many US cities exist as they are today due to people looking for economic opportunities in the past (for example Chicago grew from 299,000 to around 1.7 million in a 30 year period).

These days it seems like non-professionals are priced out of all the most booming cities (despite there being plenty of non-professional work available). I don't think it's a coincidence that it's currently very difficult to get permission to build in many of those places (in 2014 Tokyo permitted 70% more housing units than all of California, despite having 1/3 the population). The under-supply of housing in places California of course increases the demand elsewhere too since those people that would otherwise live in California have to live somewhere.

Basic income could help mobility too since it makes it easier for lower-income people to move to where the jobs are (where they may not have a family safety net). Currently internal US migration is at a historically low level.

Re:Lots of Job Hunting, but No Job, Despite Low Unemployment by xkde on Thursday October 31, 2019 @02:15PM (#21411874)
So, in order: 1. Stealing from Peter to pay Paul 2. Good idea. Make it happen. 3. Also stealing, but if it were to replace the system we have now (which won’t happen) it would at least be more efficient.
Re:Lots of Job Hunting, but No Job, Despite Low Unemployment by lotsofpulp on Thursday October 31, 2019 @02:39PM (#21412178)
Call it what you want, but the alternative is living in a society with extreme wealth/income disparities.
Re:Lots of Job Hunting, but No Job, Despite Low Unemployment by xkde on Thursday October 31, 2019 @03:32PM (#21412704)
No, the alternative is adaptation.
Re:Lots of Job Hunting, but No Job, Despite Low Unemployment by hn_throwaway_99 on Thursday October 31, 2019 @05:10PM (#21413744)
Well, I guess all those people living in tents under the freeway in Seattle have "adapted" then. Problem solved!
Re:Lots of Job Hunting, but No Job, Despite Low Unemployment by xkde on Thursday October 31, 2019 @05:50PM (#21414080)
And the only reason for that is you haven’t taken enough of my money?
Re:Lots of Job Hunting, but No Job, Despite Low Unemployment by brookhaven_dude on Thursday October 31, 2019 @03:17PM (#21412544)
It's not "stealing"
Re:Lots of Job Hunting, but No Job, Despite Low Unemployment by xkde on Thursday October 31, 2019 @03:39PM (#21412778)
What would you call 9 people in a group of ten voting to take away the tenth guy’s stuff because they wanted to? I call it what it is - stealing. Greed. Envy. Interestingly, it will probably lead to more equality; it just won’t be what you’re expecting and I don’t think you’ll like the result. At this point though, the people probably deserve to get what they want and get it good and hard.
Re:Lots of Job Hunting, but No Job, Despite Low Unemployment by xkde on Thursday October 31, 2019 @05:52PM (#21414095)
> Except the 10th guy has more stuff than the other 9 combined.

By that logic, you should be made to give everything you have to the people of Congo. Since when is morality determined by the size of one’s wallet?

Re:Lots of Job Hunting, but No Job, Despite Low Unemployment by throwaway34241 on Friday November 01, 2019 @01:34AM (#21416506)
Small thought experiment: Imagine an agricultural society where the nobility own the land, and serfs work it for subsistence wages only. The nobility largely don't work, and live lavish lifestyles supported by others. Nothing too unusual historically. In those circumstances, is maintaining the status quo the only morally correct choice, and any deviation from that "stealing?"

I don't think it's reasonable to measure a society's morality by its tax rates only or to draw an equivalence between taxes and theft.

It's true that minimal government and taxes worked well in the US's early history. But if you think about it, that was an agricultural society where the main source of capital, land, was practically free. It's not surprising that relatively pure capitalism worked OK then, but historically it seems to have worked out less well in almost all other circumstances.

These days a lot of capital is in stocks in global corporations, with barriers to entry measured in the billions of dollars. It's not as simple as moving to the frontier and finding your own plot of land.

I think an ideal society delivers broad-based prosperity and individual freedoms with a dynamic market economy. And tax policy should preserve incentives to work and invest efficiently. But if there is a conflict between broad-based prosperity and zero tax rates / income redistribution, like in the example society above, the former should definitely be chosen over the latter.

I think going the other way around, rather than leading to a capitalist paradise, will only lead to the rise of ideologies that advocate heavy-handed state control of the economy, probably to the detriment of everyone.

Re:Lots of Job Hunting, but No Job, Despite Low Unemployment by pault on Thursday October 31, 2019 @05:46PM (#21414043)
Except the 10th guy has more stuff than the other 9 combined.
Re:Lots of Job Hunting, but No Job, Despite Low Unemployment by xkde on Thursday October 31, 2019 @12:24PM (#21410488)
Whoops, I thought we were discussing our personal experiences, not just whining about “the system”. My bad.