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Re:The next big thing will start out looking like a toy (2010) by aazaa on Monday October 21, 2019 @04:50PM (#21317188)
I think most participants in the Internet circa 1996 and personal computers in the early 1980s would understand this idea.

The Internet was being widely written off as a toy that many couldn't ever imagine having practical applications.

Case in point, this widely-cited piece from 1998:

> The growth of the Internet will slow drastically, as the flaw in "Metcalfe's law"--which states that the number of potential connections in a network is proportional to the square of the number of participants--becomes apparent: most people have nothing to say to each other! By 2005 or so, it will become clear that the Internet's impact on the economy has been no greater than the fax machine's.

http://web.archive.org/web/19980610100009/www.redherring.com...

Here are some fun things about this concept of toys turning into big things:

1. toys start out looking like toys, too

2. it's extremely difficult to distinguish the toys that will remain toys forever from those that will become "the next big thing."

A useful approach to the problem posed by (2) is to look at things that appear to be toys but refuse to die despite every indication that they should have done so long ago.

Toys that remain toys often have a trendiness and inelasticity to them that gives them naturally short lives. If you see a toy lingering long beyond the time it should have given up the ghost, you may be looking at the next big thing.

The next problem is that it can take a very long time for a toy to turn into the next big thing.

Re:The next big thing will start out looking like a toy (2010) by mdorazio on Monday October 21, 2019 @07:54PM (#21318900)
I think your last sentence is perhaps the most important - timing the "Toys to Big Thing" transition is really hard and leaves a lot of dead companies in its wake. For example, at some point in the future, VR and AR will probably be in this category, but who knows how long it will actually take (basically-modern VR has been around since the 80s!) or what will cause the shift. Meanwhile, VR has left a decades-long trail of dead plans/businesses and AR seems to be doing the same.
Re:The next big thing will start out looking like a toy (2010) by throwaway_bad on Monday October 21, 2019 @08:21PM (#21319074)
Augmented reality is a great example. Everyone knows that it will become a "Big Thing" in the future. Like why would smartphones be the final form factor of personal computing? Of course there will be something that will dethrone it.

But despite every big company throwing a couple billions at the problem for the last few years (Facebook's $2 billion acquisition of oculus, Google's $500 million investment into Magic Leap, Apple's acquisition of Metaio/ARkit, Microsoft Hololens), all we have are literal toys!

So now you can't talk about AR as a serious subject anymore. People all dismiss it, saying we are still too early. I imagine it's like that for every "toy to big thing" transition.

Re:The next big thing will start out looking like a toy (2010) by simonh on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @02:41AM (#21320927)
I think there’s a very good chance the smartphone will be the dominant form factor essentially forever. Anything smaller won’t be good for presenting visual information, and when you don’t need it, it isn’t stuck to your face.

Alternatively taking a long view, how many times do you think the dominant form factor of personal computers (in the general sense, including smart phones) will change? Another 3 times, another 5? Every 20 years forever?

The only exception I can think of is a direct neural link, but that’s generations away and even then I’m not entirely convinced. Maybe in the very long term.

Re:The next big thing will start out looking like a toy (2010) by QuinnWilton on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @02:45AM (#21320947)
> You could use glasses, but not everyone wants to wear them.

What about contact lenses?

Re:The next big thing will start out looking like a toy (2010) by simonh on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @04:45AM (#21321470)
I don't see how that could physically work. To present a high fidelity bright, clear display has irreducible base power requirements, and I don't see any way to provision that amount of energy in the form factor. Signal reception would also be a problem, and then there's the issue of dealing with thermal losses. Thermodynamics is not our friend, especially for powered devices in physical contact with our eyeballs.
Re:The next big thing will start out looking like a toy (2010) by mozey on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @03:23AM (#21321084)
Contact lenses are a pita. I suspect it's going to be a smartphone-like form factor combined with a voice UI similar to the movie Her from 2013. Eventually the visuals on the phone screen will be replaced with a neural link. It would make sense if the implant is just a dumb antenna, combined with a removable "earbud" that connects it to the computing device.
Re:The next big thing will start out looking like a toy (2010) by AstralStorm on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @06:41AM (#21322119)
We have not conceived useful applications that actually require AR yet. It has to be something requiring immediate feedback - maybe driving a car or piloting a similar vehicle would be such application. Maybe stock market. Or something entirely unforseen, like data analysis or warehousing - using human intelligence better?

Voice is much too slow, as is listening - might as well use the current devices at those speeds.

Computers started with bookkeeping and mass production control. It took quite some time for them to penetrate office market or to (partially) replace the previously used communication tools.

Re:The next big thing will start out looking like a toy (2010) by vermilingua on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @03:24AM (#21321090)
Yes because contacts are an absolute pleasure in comparison to glasses.
Re:The next big thing will start out looking like a toy (2010) by irrational on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @06:00AM (#21321893)
Are you being sarcastic? I've been wearing contacts and glasses for nearly 40 years. Contacts are absolutely an absolute pleasure compared to glasses. I only wear glasses when I absolutely have to (i.e., right after I take out my contacts until I have to go to sleep at night and vice versa in the morning). For instance, I hate working out in glasses. They get all foggy and start slipping down my face from the sweat. Doing high intensity sprints in glasses is the worst.
Re:The next big thing will start out looking like a toy (2010) by monadgonad on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @04:30AM (#21321392)
You're thinking very small-picture here. Contacts can be improved upon somewhat if we have the technology to make them into full AR screens.
Re:The next big thing will start out looking like a toy (2010) by AstralStorm on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @06:45AM (#21322132)
As could glasses, starting with how they're kept on your head and the weight. Just look at how far VR helmets have come, or skiing goggles. There's more that can be done still, but not enough pressure to do it.
Re:The next big thing will start out looking like a toy (2010) by kyle-rb on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @07:29PM (#21329546)
Yes, this is correct.
Re:The next big thing will start out looking like a toy (2010) by tripzilch on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @11:39AM (#21324893)
You can't readily "disengage" from contact lenses. Imagine getting hacked and somebody beaming shockporn onto your vision.
Re:The next big thing will start out looking like a toy (2010) by nine_k on Monday October 21, 2019 @09:14PM (#21319403)
Remember the PC revolution.

Altair was a toy. Atari 2600 was a toy. TRS-80, Sinclair Spectrum, Apple II — all toys. Amiga was almost not a toy, and Aople Macintosh and IBM PC were mostly not toys anymore.

From there on, businesses started to use massive amounts of PCs, thanks to killer apps like word processors and spreadsheets.

Prices fell, home users took note, and a real explosion began.

It took mere 20 years, say, from 1980 to 2000.

Re:The next big thing will start out looking like a toy (2010) by ianai on Monday October 21, 2019 @10:37PM (#21319906)
In that 20 years the hardware and software exponentially grew in capacity and decreased greatly in cost. Computers turned into something you’d want in your pocket once they could be unobtrusive enough to be tolerable with you all day.

On that note, who knows what would AR require in order to take off. It probably needs to be something you can get 80% of the killer features without wearing glasses. It also needs to support whatever frames glass wearers want to wear. It might require actual visual implants as I don’t think there’s a way to turn a contact lens into a display.

Re:The next big thing will start out looking like a toy (2010) by nine_k on Monday October 21, 2019 @11:17PM (#21320078)
I've read about contact lenses that used super—tiny LEDs to produce a focused overlay image in the eye.

It of course had a large external induction coil to power it, and very low resolution.

Re:The next big thing will start out looking like a toy (2010) by rimliu on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @03:46AM (#21321202)
I, for one, do not know that AR will become a "Big Thing". It is fine for some applications, but not enough to be Big.
Re:The next big thing will start out looking like a toy (2010) by NeoBasilisk on Monday October 21, 2019 @08:00PM (#21318946)
ehhhhh I would disagree with your statement that "basically-modern VR has been around since the 80s." It really seems like this phase of VR really began with the release of the Oculus Rift DK1. Sure there had been earlier prototypes floating around, but they weren't taken seriously.
Re:The next big thing will start out looking like a toy (2010) by cbhl on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @03:24AM (#21321092)
The game changer between the 80's VR and 10's VR is basically the smartphone. In the old days, folks were hooking up big bulky CRTs to their face. Now we have cheap flat panel displays as a commodity.

But there are still more technical problems to solve before the killer application and corresponding headset will be cheap, useful, and lightweight enough for mass adoption.

Re:The next big thing will start out looking like a toy (2010) by cookingrobot on Monday October 21, 2019 @05:09PM (#21317398)
By this test, is Lego the next big thing?
Re:The next big thing will start out looking like a toy (2010) by DannyB2 on Monday October 21, 2019 @05:21PM (#21317531)
The real test, I think, is something that has genuinely useful applications to anyone with a little bit of vision.

Big entrenched players are unable to see the next big thing, because they see the world through the glasses of their successful business. Microsoft for example almost missed the internet, and suddenly realized it in 1995. I believe Bill Gates was quoted as saying it was just a fad. The funny thing is that more than a decade earlier (about 1980) I heard the same thing about "personal computers" or "microcomputers". Just a fad. A toy. Never will compete with IBM's "real" computers, etc.

Similarly, these new fangled "automobile" thingies will never become popular. They are noisy. Smelly. Unreliable. Difficult to start. You can even break your arm if it kicks back while you are cranking it. And worst of all (gasp!) they frighten the horses! That's why these automobile thingies are just rich kid's toys. A fad.

I guess they couldn't see that all of those imperfections I listed could be fixed.

Back in the 1990s I saw this interesting tv program. Sorry, can't remember. It was about personal computers. The person being interviewed said the entrenched players NEVER see the next big thing coming. So they hire someone smart who will see it coming, and then tell them when its coming. And then when they are told this is the NEXT BIG THING! They never believe it.

Speaking of Microsoft almost missing the internet, they did entirely miss the new generation of smartphones starting with the iPhone. Ballmer laughed at the iPhone. They woke up to the new reality after it was too late. Sorry iPhone and Android already dominated. Smart phones sold in unit volumes that dwarfed PC unit volumes. Win Phone 7, followed by an incompatible Win Phone 8 didn't stand a chance -- even with nice Nokia hardware.

Re:The next big thing will start out looking like a toy (2010) by oscargrouch on Monday October 21, 2019 @05:56PM (#21317910)
I remember building dial-up internet providers in the late nineties(97/98) here in Brazil as a teen, and some consulting folks trying to sell us some Solaris licenses, laughing at us because we were using Linux, 'that toy OS'.

It would be kind of easy to make a stand against the microsoft fanboys against NT 4, but it was much more difficult to make a good case of Linux against Solaris back then. (Remember Linux starting to be taken seriously by 2.2 and 2.4 period)

Also i got the same dismissive snarks, when installing and programing in PHP back then to make dinamic websites, in a world then taken by ASP and Cold Fusion. (And the other alternative in Unix were only Perl, for which i thank PHP for avoiding me the trouble).

It's a reminder for me, that the most common trend in IT sector is of folks with a "colonized" sort of mentality, that will fail to recognize the things that will turn into real things in the future.

It's sad when you think that its even worse than that, giving most people just show off and wait for their next paycheck. They dont even bother thinking in those things.

So the psychological profile of who are saying what is kind a very big deal, not just what they are saying.

Re:The next big thing will start out looking like a toy (2010) by 18pfsmt on Monday October 21, 2019 @05:27PM (#21317617)
They didn't miss it, they saw it as a threat to be stomped.

They almost succeeded, but Google would've canned their game eventually. Believe it or not, "free stuff" is popular.

Re:The next big thing will start out looking like a toy (2010) by pcnix on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @01:32AM (#21320626)
The idea that you speak of, about bug entrenched companies not being able to see new things coming - it's the central theme of The Innovator's Dilemma. I highly recommend that book if you wish to read about this further.
Re:The next big thing will start out looking like a toy (2010) by 18pfsmt on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @05:37PM (#21328739)
I think you are replying to someone that has worked for G for a long time, and is using their knowm alt-account (i.e. not hiding anything). He probably read that book when he was ~25 yrs. old.
Re:The next big thing will start out looking like a toy (2010) by thaumasiotes on Monday October 21, 2019 @05:49PM (#21317834)
> Smart phones sold in unit volumes that dwarfed PC unit volumes.

Popcorn sold in unit volumes even higher than that, but so what? These aren't comparable things.

Re:The next big thing will start out looking like a toy (2010) by l_t on Monday October 21, 2019 @06:11PM (#21318065)
I think this is a legitimate question. There's two main things smartphones and PCs have in common, but both are arguable:

1. They do the same things. Both are general purpose computers. For some use cases, they both work fine.

2. They're about the same cost: ~$800 or so. But that's comparing flagship smartphone costs with entry-level desktop PC costs.

I suppose from hte perspective of a large company, a smartphone sale seems like it might be more or less valuable than a desktop PC sale depending on a variety of factors. So I think it's safe to say they are similarly comparable in that sense.

Re:The next big thing will start out looking like a toy (2010) by mch82 on Monday October 21, 2019 @09:48PM (#21319608)
Literally, no. Conceptually, maybe.

Lego represents the construction of objects from catalogs of standard components. That’s in comparison to carving unique, one off toys from raw wood.

Professional fabrication has followed in the footsteps of LEGO (and Lincoln Logs, Erector Set). If you use SketchUp to design a building you’ll notice it’s encouraged to use standard building components that can be picked from a library. Lots of those components can then be picked up at Home Depot. Ikea furniture kits are also similar to Lego (or at least the broader category of toy).

LEGO’s Mindstorms GUI programming model is very forward looking. LabVIEW and Simulink are picking up on those concepts & professional engineers are definitely using them.

Re:The next big thing will start out looking like a toy (2010) by thorwasdfasdf on Monday October 21, 2019 @06:17PM (#21318112)
If Lego blocks were bigger and all building codes and regulations were removed and zoning could be eliminated, then yes absolutely legos would be the next big thing that could upend the entire multi trillion dollar housing market. Imagine the enormous societal wealth creation, if anyone could build a house with the same ease (and lack of regulations) of building a website.

of course, these hypothetical legos would need plumbing and electrical infrastructure and maybe a few other things ;)

Re:The next big thing will start out looking like a toy (2010) by Izkata on Monday October 21, 2019 @06:45PM (#21318386)
Re:The next big thing will start out looking like a toy (2010) by hanniabu on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @01:43AM (#21320678)
Do those need siding or is that an acceptable external wall? Would be nice if these structures were widely allowed, but I have a feeling that it would conflict with many building codes. That sawdust wall filler also looks like a fire hazard. Look like it'd be good fun building though!
Re:The next big thing will start out looking like a toy (2010) by swsieber on Monday October 21, 2019 @05:15PM (#21317458)
Already was - spawned games, movies, theme-park rides, etc.
Re:The next big thing will start out looking like a toy (2010) by Tronno on Monday October 21, 2019 @05:14PM (#21317454)
Lego has an annual revenue in the billions and has recently grown bigger than Mattel or Hasbro. So, yes
Re:The next big thing will start out looking like a toy (2010) by jacobr1 on Monday October 21, 2019 @05:17PM (#21317474)
Maybe? The definitions evolve and stretch. What if legos where made of smarter material or had more powerful components? 3D printing might actually be the right way to think about small-scale at-home manufacturing rather than per-brick components - but even then plenty of components (such as compute related) require different manufacturing methods - so standards based on something like lego might allow for interoperability. It's a toy ... until it is not.
Re:The next big thing will start out looking like a toy (2010) by blotter_paper on Monday October 21, 2019 @06:05PM (#21317980)
Yes; by 2036, 78% of the earth's surface will be composed of Mindstorms.
Re:The next big thing will start out looking like a toy (2010) by itronitron on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @05:44AM (#21321804)
if by Lego you mean Minecraft, then yes
Re:The next big thing will start out looking like a toy (2010) by tialaramex on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @04:57AM (#21321517)
I was certainly a "participant in the Internet circa 1996" (and before) and besides the inevitable quote from Krugman pretending not to understand what is happening here [Network effects don't care that "most people have nothing to say to each other" and we should laugh at a supposed "economist" who didn't understand that in 1998] I don't see a connection to the Internet as a "toy".

I guess there are two and a half possible mistakes here, which I'll address separately.

1. The Network is a toy. No. At least as far back as the Treaty of Bern (in 1874) the importance of the global Network is so obvious that national governments give up a little sovereignty to have it work better. Communication makes the difference almost everywhere almost all the time. Bern of course is about written letters, but the Telephone follows the exact same course, and so if you accept the Internet as a natural successor all the same things apply.

2. Maybe the Internet is not the Network? This argument looks completely reasonable in 1986 when IP networks are mostly an American phenomenon and there is a lot of X.25 out in the rest of the world. Maybe the Network will be X.25. By 1996 that's a distant memory, everything is IP. It's a done deal, the Internet is the Network.

2.5. Mistaking the Web for the Internet. The Web initially looks like a toy. HTTP/0.9 era Web has lots of toy-like qualities. Academics have been designing powerful hypermedia technology for many years by 1990, surely this half-arsed tech demo from a CERN guy who isn't even a Computer Scientist is a flash in the pan? You can make a better argument that the Web is still a toy in 1996 than the Internet, I don't think it's a good argument but it can be made -- however the Web is just an application. A competitor hypermedia solution that crushes Tim's Web but uses IP is still the Internet.

Re:The next big thing will start out looking like a toy (2010) by TheGrumpyBrit on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @07:22AM (#21322374)
It might not have been a toy in the Fisher-Price sense of the word, but in 1998 it was only a couple of years into the mainstream, and had a long history of being the preserve of geeks and hobbyists. Big business was only just starting to take it seriously, and even then, not particularly so.
Re:The next big thing will start out looking like a toy (2010) by Smithalicious on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @06:17AM (#21321999)
> By 2005 or so, it will become clear that the Internet's impact on the economy has been no greater than the fax machine's.

I wonder how big the fax machine's impact on the economy actually was; I feel like it probably was quite large. Not nearly as large as the internet, of course.

Re:The next big thing will start out looking like a toy (2010) by l_t on Monday October 21, 2019 @06:21PM (#21318166)
This makes me wonder, though.

I wonder if you went back to the very earliest days of the WWW, did everyone see it as a toy? Or were there already people (those developing it, perhaps) who saw that it had awesome non-toy potential?

I suspect people brand new tech as "toys" when they're not, and I bet there's also developers that take their toys and call them products :)

Maybe the solution is to completely discard the "toy" / "non-toy" dichotomy. It seems like it just muddies the discussion when the important thing is to evaluate the actual merits of the product/technology in question.

Re:The next big thing will start out looking like a toy (2010) by marcosdumay on Monday October 21, 2019 @06:36PM (#21318302)
> I wonder if you went back to the very earliest days of the WWW, did everyone see it as a toy?

The WWW that was created to share scientific papers? Or you mean the GP's Internet that was created to organize the US troops on the event of a nuclear strike?

I guess so, there was plenty of people aware they were not toys. Most of those people did use them as toys most of the times, like everybody else at the time, but the toy classification was mostly from uninformed people and trolls.

Re:The next big thing will start out looking like a toy (2010) by pavpanchekha on Monday October 21, 2019 @07:46PM (#21318847)
Just as a side note: the Internet was not actually created to organize US troops in the event of a nuclear strike. The Internet, the one initially birthed by ARPA, initially had academic and civilian aims. That said, some of the early research on networking was developed to aid the military in case of nuclear war. In particular, Paul Baran invented package switching explicitly to help the US air force maintain its defense radar network in case of war.
Re:The next big thing will start out looking like a toy (2010) by dredmorbius on Monday October 21, 2019 @08:56PM (#21319300)
That was in fact the impetus:

While working at RAND on a scheme for U.S. telecommunications infrastructure to survive a “first strike,” Paul Baran conceived of the Internet and digital packet switching, the Internet's underlying data communications technology. His concepts are still employed today; just the terms are different. His seminal work first appeared in a series of RAND studies published between 1960 and 1962 and then finally in the tome “On Distributed Communications,” published in 1964.

https://www.rand.org/about/history/baran.html

Baran's original packet (block) switched networks development papers, and in fact his entire catalogue, are available at RAND:

"On Distributed Communications I. Introduction to Distributed Communications Networks"

https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_memoranda/RM3420.html

(This and the others are listed at the first link.)

Re:The next big thing will start out looking like a toy (2010) by samplatt on Monday October 21, 2019 @07:04PM (#21318539)
>The WWW that was created to share scientific papers?

Most of the citizens of the western world (even those with a degree) definitely pidgeon-hole expensive university projects as "toys", because they don't have one and don't see a need for one.

Academia is a weird place and is often underestimated.

Re:The next big thing will start out looking like a toy (2010) by l_t on Monday October 21, 2019 @07:00PM (#21318502)
I meant the WWW. Thanks for checking!
Re:The next big thing will start out looking like a toy (2010) by GordonS on Monday October 21, 2019 @06:43PM (#21318366)
Random, single data point 80's person here.

Compuserve, AOL and newsgroups were already big when I discovered the www - Compuserve and newsgroups seemed vastly superior to me at the time.

Netscape Navigator seemed so basic, and how would anyone know which URLs to use (discoverability)? I chuckled, wrote it off, and stuck with what I knew.

Well, I was just a little bit wrong :)

Re:The next big thing will start out looking like a toy (2010) by irrational on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @06:07AM (#21321937)
I was in college in the mid-90s. I don't know anyone who saw it as a toy. We'd already been using Pine and BBS for many years prior and this seemed like the next iteration of that. The first time I saw the WWW was when I was in a computer lab and someone was on ESPN (or some other sport's website) on the computer next to me. I leaned over and asked them what they were looking at. They showed me what a browser is and how you go to web pages. I tried it out and was hooked. I immediately started to try to make my own webpages. Of course, back then webpages were ugly, but they were infinitely easier to build than these days. No CSS, no JavaScript, just plain HTML and nothing else. Anyway, getting off topic. The WWW was not seen as a toy by anyone that I knew of.
Re:The next big thing will start out looking like a toy (2010) by throwaway66920 on Monday October 21, 2019 @09:45PM (#21319594)
https://youtu.be/8tCC9yxUIdw

A wonderful 1 minute snippet of David Bowie explaining how huge of a deal it’s going to be to a skeptical interviewer in the 90s

Re:The next big thing will start out looking like a toy (2010) by irrational on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @05:55AM (#21321857)
What about the next big things that turn into toys? I'm thinking of the Segway. In the days around it's unveiling there were all sorts of people saying this was the next big thing and it would revolutionize human transportation. They were even saying that cities would be rebuilt to accommodate them. These days I only see them being used as toys for tourists to ride around on doing city tours.
Re:The next big thing will start out looking like a toy (2010) by a_f on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @06:24AM (#21322032)
I guess by a bit of a leap you could see it as a pre-cursor to city-wide electric transport, such as electric scooters?
Re:The next big thing will start out looking like a toy (2010) by tim333 on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @05:59AM (#21321890)
>The Internet was being widely written off as a toy

There was a definite split in opinion with some writing it off as a toy and some smart and informed people thinking it the next big thing (eg Gates https://www.wired.com/2010/05/0526bill-gates-internet-memo/)

Re:The next big thing will start out looking like a toy (2010) by 18pfsmt on Monday October 21, 2019 @05:24PM (#21317585)
>The next problem is that it can take a very long time for a toy to turn into the next big thing.

And humans are very impatient and are driven toward immediate gratification.