Also, the Netflix and Amazon examples don't seem to be in the same category, to me. Every time you interact with Netflix and Amazon, you are doing so deliberately. You are choosing exactly what to give them. You can easily pick another service.

Always-on listening devices, on the other hand, are taking data that you did not choose to give them, and other people's data as well. That's the point in the headline of this article. I would never need to tell guests "If you order something from Amazon, they'll know you ordered it," but apparently I might need to tell them to watch their mouths in my house. There's a big difference.

It does bother me when politicians say GAFA and leave out Microsoft (but not Apple??)

#Netflix did play an important part in adding DRM to the Web specifications...

(I guess it's not the only slur it has to avoid with that letter combination though.)

Don't forget that Echo devices are Amazon's always-on listening devices.

If you have proof of echo devices not doing this, you need to yield a source. Wireshark logs, anything.

I suspect most of these comments are from people who don't own, haver never used, let alone sniffed traffic from those devices.

They conveniently ignore all the networks (including my own) which will throw a fit if these devices start sending unusual traffic.

I'll worry the day they embed a cellular modem.

Imagine if AI advanced to the point where a human brain could be simulated in a computer. If you collected enough data on a person, you could create a virtual clone with their exact same beliefs, opinions, intelligence, etc. Just imagine how easy it would be to exploit someone if you could simulate how they'd respond to anything with perfect accuracy. You could literally enslave people.

And while that's currently scifi, the amount of money companies like Google and Facebook are pumping into AI research means we could land somewhere pretty close to that eventually. If we're still not protecting peoples' data by then, we're all fucked.

[1]: https://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/02/16/how-targ...

Might wanna read that again, it’s a story of clever and spooky observation but not that clever.

I think allowing any company or government having an open mic/'smart' speaker, essentially bugging your own home/business is just a bad idea.

"I actually am less worried about those (since I turn them off)" - are you sure they are off, had to ask.

I'm not as worried about Netflix/Amazon knowing every movie I watch, product I order or am interested in.

I'm more worried about private conversations and communications being monitored as it applies to freedom of ideas, diverse political movements, freedom to vote and even freedom of religion.

Can you cite where Google says that the mute switch is a hardware kill switch for the mics? I've only read where they say that it doesn't listen but never that it physically disables the mics which means it's done in software and the device could be "muted" and still able to listen.

Unless the mute switch is a physical disconnect for the microphones then it's no different than the Alexa's mute button.

And don't forget Google's Nest Secure contains/ed undisclosed microphones and not physical mute button and Google wanted you to trust that it is/was disabled.

If I google "Google Nest Home Mute Hardware disconnect" for example, none of the results on the first page state it is a hardware disconnect.

The support.google.com links all use vague language that never explicitly says there's a hardware disconnect. Just that the mute switch causes the microphones to be disabled.

Interestingly the last result on first page is this: https://store.google.com/magazine/google_nest_privacy#ada2d2...

And it's claims are known to be false.

> Your device will only send audio to Google if we detect that you or someone in your home is interacting with your Assistant

So I'm genuinely curious where all this information about the mute switch being a physical disconnect for the mics exists.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

That was more of a joke, are you sure they are off?

I'm sure someone has or is testing that the hardware mute button works.

I'm not against Nest/Google. I was always sporting Google T-Shirts and hats back in the day, telling everyone to use it and recommending their products.

I'm just not sure on this product.

Obviously there can be defects, but Google is not getting 100% of the audio from your home.

You are using 'Google' in a vague way which may be why you are confused about what my comment meant. The Google device gets 100% of audio it hears, because it can't magically hear a 'wake word' without listening to all audio. It only sends audio to a Google server after the wake word.

(This is at least true for the iPhone, Hey Siri is recognized locally before anything is sent off to the net)

Re reading your comment, I guess you mean: the sound processing goes through the local microphone no matter what, even if the audio is only forwarded on if they lead with certain keywords, right? In other words, just like how every other voice activated system has to work. The privacy implications are that the equipment could be compromised to actually put the recording in longer term storage, like a bug or something.

https://machinelearning.apple.com/2017/10/01/hey-siri.html

I've disabled Siri and Cortana to the best of my ability (and I don't own any Amazon devices with a microphone). Of course I can't actually be sure that that means that they're really not listening, but it's absurd to imply that just because one owns a smart phone they must give up all hope of privacy.

You are trusting that your efforts to disable Siri and Cortana have actually resulted in them being disabled, and that Apple and Microsoft aren't doing nefarious things to keep them enabled anyway. If you trust that, I don't think it's a stretch to trust that Apple and MS would avoid doing nefarious things with a HomePod or [whatever MS's analogous device might be]. You seem to not want to have anything around that can record you without your express permission, so sure, I get why you don't have a HomePod.

I had an Amazon Echo for a while, but decided I didn't trust Amazon, and exchanged it for a Google Home. I have an Android phone with Google Assistant enabled, and I don't see the privacy implications as materially different between the two.