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Re:Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work by overgard on Wednesday October 16, 2019 @09:08PM (#21277986)
I've heard this hypothesis a lot, but there's something that bothers me about it.

If you've ever been passionate about something, something that's hard and takes a lot of effort and practice to become good at, would you really let microaggressions stop you from doing that thing? I mean, being a programmer is not exactly a high status thing for white males either. If I tell people I'm a programmer, I generally am competing with the perception that I am socially awkward. People assume I'm like some Big Bang Theory character until I prove otherwise. I don't like that stereotype, but it never stopped me from learning to code, or even was a thought that crossed my mind.

Also, how many other industries are or have been actively hostile towards women and still have plenty of females in it? Show business is an obvious example.

I'm not saying that things can't or shouldn't be improved, but I feel like the argument that goes "well the nerds are making women uncomfortable" is just a cartoon with very little evidence other than anecdotes.

Re:Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work by blintz on Wednesday October 16, 2019 @09:25PM (#21278086)
I think “microagressions” is a bit of an understatement. Also not sure that being stereotyped as “socially awkward” is comparable to experiencing or even just witnessing sexual harassment.

Women in tech report more mistreatment than in many other male-dominated industries. See: https://www.axios.com/tech-sexual-harassment-women-silicon-v...

Re:Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work by overgard on Thursday October 17, 2019 @03:44AM (#21279797)
All I see in that link is a VERY vague assertion that some women have received “unwanted physical contact”, which doesnt really mean anything without specifics. That could mean something creepy, or it could mean someone tapping them on the shoulder, or a saleswomans obnoxious insistence on high fiving all the time. And then some persons quoted opinion.
Re:Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work by wolfd on Thursday October 17, 2019 @05:12AM (#21280190)
If someone touched me in any physical way at work I'd say it would be unwanted. It's pretty reasonable to not want other people to touch you, no matter the specific "kind" of touch it is.
Re:Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work by homonculus1 on Thursday October 17, 2019 @10:11AM (#21282234)
Every now and then my boss gives me an overly-friendly shoulder pat. It really annoys me, I guess I'm a victim of physical harassment. Should I leave the industry over that?
Re:Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work by maxerickson on Friday October 18, 2019 @09:16PM (#21296233)
What would you do if you had 8 bosses in a row all do the same thing?
Re:Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work by zer0tonin on Thursday October 17, 2019 @05:50AM (#21280333)
It quite often means something creepy. You shouldn't assume that actual aggression aren't happening just because you have the privilege of not experiencing them.
Re:Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work by haberman on Wednesday October 16, 2019 @10:40PM (#21278464)
In this survey the finding is exactly the opposite: https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/04/17/ssc-survey-results-sex...
Re:Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work by ananthraghavan on Wednesday October 16, 2019 @09:28PM (#21278108)
>If I tell people I'm a programmer, I generally am competing with the perception that I am socially awkward. People assume I'm like some Big Bang Theory character until I prove otherwise. I don't like that stereotype, but it never stopped me from learning to code, or even was a thought that crossed my mind.

People thinking you're socially awkward is different from people sexually harassing you at work.

Re:Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work by overgard on Thursday October 17, 2019 @03:48AM (#21279820)
If the issue was as simple as women being sexually harassed it might not be easy to fix but itd be straightforward. But all the evidence suggests its a very nuanced and complicated issue. I don’t think just caricaturing and oversimplifying the issue helps anything.
Re:Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work by lazyasciiart on Thursday October 17, 2019 @05:38PM (#21286589)
I think you did exactly that here and I agree that it is an unhelpful contribution

> If you've ever been passionate about something, something that's hard and takes a lot of effort and practice to become good at, would you really let microaggressions stop you from doing that thing?

Re:Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work by aiiane on Thursday October 17, 2019 @01:42AM (#21279221)
> If you've ever been passionate about something, something that's hard and takes a lot of effort and practice to become good at, would you really let microaggressions stop you from doing that thing?

Yes, actually, people do this all the time. They find new things to be passionate about if being passionate about something is too painful.

Re:Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work by overgard on Thursday October 17, 2019 @03:52AM (#21279834)
> Yes, actually, people do this all the time.

I have trouble really imagining someone finding much success if they drop things they care about because the situation around them isnt ideal.

Re:Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work by read_if_gay_ on Thursday October 17, 2019 @02:04AM (#21279333)
If you can just go find something new to be passionate about then you're not really passionate about it.
Re:Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work by throwawaygmhj on Thursday October 17, 2019 @06:01AM (#21280386)
It may come as a shock to you but some people have multiple passions in life. Besides, your arguments reeks of the classic gamer 'women are not really into it' take
Re:Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work by read_if_gay_ on Thursday October 17, 2019 @06:26AM (#21280542)
It may come as a shock to you but how many passions you have is not relevant to my argument.

And that second part of your post is really damn far fetched. I never even mentioned anything remotely related to gender.

Re:Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work by em-bee on Thursday October 17, 2019 @07:03AM (#21280743)
the second part wasn't about what you said, but an example of how the claim "if a person gives up something, then they weren't passionate enough" is nonsense.

to give you a better example: since guido van rossum gave up leadership of python, does that mean that he wasn't passionate enough about it?

absolutely not. but how he was treated destroyed his passion, and he couldn't handle it any more and burned out. this is the argument above. women leave despite their passion they got more pain than they could handle. just like guido.

Re:Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work by read_if_gay_ on Thursday October 17, 2019 @09:51AM (#21282020)
How did it destroy his passion? Did he quit all of CS entirely, including coding as a hobby, and took up shit like fishing instead? No? Then it didn't destroy his passion. He quit Python but Python isn't his passion. It's just a manifestation of it.

If you really love knitting then you're not gonna quit it altogether because you once had a shitty experience with a knitting group. You're just gonna find another knitting group or do it alone. But if you do quit, then you never were passionate about it. That's my point and that has nothing to do with female gamers or whatever juvenile bullshit GGP is currently interpreting into it.

Re:Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work by Chris2048 on Thursday October 17, 2019 @09:39AM (#21281916)
How was Guido treated?