A warrant is not required. Federal agents can search your phone at the US border, even if you're a US citizen [1]. If they can't unlock it, they can seize it [2].

[1] https://www.businessinsider.com/can-us-border-agents-search-...

[2] https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2019/05/01/u-s-customs-c...

Incidentally, the "border" for legal purposes extends 100 miles into the interior.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/senate-bill/218...

You are far more likely to not have to worry about things like healthcare in european countries than you are in the US for example. You are far less likely to have to work multiple jobs to sustain your life. 'Class'mobility is far is better in most other western countries as well.

So if your definition is "free to do whatever", this also means other people and corporations are free to screw you over. And you would be right that in that regard the USA is freer than other western countries, but it infringes upon personal freedom, and in my opinion, that is the kind of freedom the USA gneerally says they're all about.

That really is all I meant by my comment, and I hoped to make it clear that I don't think this is a worthwhile positive metric. I guess I didn't communicate that well enough because a few other people seemed to follow this line of reasoning as well...

This is for 2012: https://www.epi.org/publication/usa-lags-peer-countries-mobi...

This OECD chart shows how your financial outcome is practically inherited in the US and Germany: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/08/moving-up-the-income-...

This isn't very surprising. For decades, the strongest predictor for a country having high social mobility is a strong welfare program including child care and health care, financed by progressive taxation of income and wealth.

In the US, the rags to riches story has been a myth for at least 50 years.

I guess that does not apply at all to developing countries like China.

EDIT: looking at your link:

> An elasticity of zero would mean there is no relationship, and thus complete intergenerational mobility,

No, an elasticity of zero would rather mean that people are overly taxed and therefore there is no transfer of wealth between generations, which is probably not what you want (what is already taxed belongs to you and whoever you decide to give it to).

Of course, elasticity of zero would mean that there is no whatsoever transfer of skills or intelligence between generations, which is genetically patently false.

Have you looked at the second link?

> No, an elasticity of zero would rather mean that people are overly taxed and therefore there is no transfer of wealth between generations, which is probably not what you want (what is already taxed belongs to you and whoever you decide to give it to).

Low elasticity means high social mobility. It's the desciption of the same thing, only from the other direction. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_mobility

If your design goal is high social mobility (e.g. because you want a meritocratic society or simply argued from an ethical position) and high economic growth, you want to limit inheritance as much as possible. This is pretty much what Piketty et. al. have shown a few years ago.

> Of course, elasticity of zero would mean that there is no whatsoever transfer of skills or intelligence between generations, which is genetically patently false.

And yet elasticity is close to zero (0.15) in Denmark while being over three times higher in the US.

The reason is obvious: Genetics predict potential, societal context predicts outcome.

Citation needed.

> financed by progressive taxation of income and wealth.

Only 4 OECD countries still have a wealth tax. “Taxing wealth” hasn’t worked out very well.

I already posted a bunch? Nevertheless, here, straight from the horse's mouth: https://www.oecd.org/social/soc/Social-mobility-2018-Overvie...

Scientifically this is pretty much consensus for decades now BTW.

> Only 4 OECD countries still have a wealth tax.

True, but I meant not only the tax literally called wealth tax, but all taxes targeting wealth. Almost all OECD countries have inheritance taxes, capital gains taxes, real estate transfer taxes and so on.

> Compared with many European countries, for example, few Americans end up with an income or educational level that is substantially different than their parents.

> Now, new research suggests that social mobility in America may be even more limited than researchers have realized.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/10/06/strik...

> US social mobility gap continues to widen

https://www.ft.com/content/7de9165e-c3d2-11e6-9bca-2b93a6856... (Paywall!)

EDIT to add:

> You're twice as likely to live the American Dream in Canada

https://www.businessinsider.com/the-american-dream-of-social...

The U.S. is dealing with the after effects of major social ills. Children in intact families are still very likely to have economic mobility.

I call it freedom because I see people exercising it. What is the point of a "freedom" if you can't afford to exercise it?

Are you free to send your children to play in sports if you're afraid that your child getting injured will financially ruin you? Are you free to participate in activities yourself if you're teetering on the edge and one unexpected expense will result in having to move out of a good school district, and result in significantly altering your child's chances of future success?

Are you free to participate in your community after you spend 90 min per day commuting after working an 8 to 10 hour day, resulting in nothing else than eating, saying hello-good night to the family, and going to bed?

Are you free to take care of your loved ones in case something should happen to them if you can't afford to go without a paycheck because there is no safety net?

But yes, I guess it is nice to take advantage of the minuscule chance that I'd be in a situation to have to shoot a thief.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_search_exception

There’s so many of these exceptions to “freedoms” in the US, namely that if you can’t afford to fight for your freedom, can you really be considered to have it?

I do appreciate for the most part, however, the US’s stance on free speech.

No law or case has successfully argued 100 miles from an international airport. That is just false information.

I get where americans come from, and its still great place for many reasons, but for any western-european these statements are pretty weird. I guess if you are told since childhood you live in greatest country in the world, hollywood and politicians keeps playing the same tune over and over, it might feel like its true.

What we see is repressive police state outside anybody's control, sometimes properly evil government which is openly xenophobic (if you are not US citizen you mean nothing), being one serious illness away from utter bankrupcy, huge class divides that are getting bigger, biggest (private) prison state in the world, being caught with some weed in many places can still effectively ruin your professional life forever etc.

> repressive police state outside anybody's control

Nah, mostly individual cops

> properly evil government which is openly xenophobic

No, we expect people to immigrate legally, and have less obligation to non-citizens. However, this can be countermanded with the sheer amount of military aid we provide for everyone.

>one serious illness away from utter bankrupcy

Yeah, that's the story, but it never seems to work out that way. In reality, people have safety nets, considerate bosses, savings, families, or any combination.

> huge class divides that are getting bigger

I guess? Nobody really pays attention to what the 1% are doing. Many of us are just enjoying the good job market and low taxes right now.

> biggest (private) prison state in the world

This is a serious problem, I agree

> being caught with some weed in many places can still effectively ruin your professional life forever etc

Yes, and? Being caught with a gun in Europe could also give you a criminal record. This is why we have different states. Someone wants to smoke before everyone makes it legal? Move!

Yeah its great have one's saving wiped out by something that we in Europe just have our shared pool of resources covers for. So you only have to deal with (sometimes lifelong) consequences of some hard illness / accident, and you can continue your life unaffected financially and not compound misery and life getting significantly tougher.

THAT, my friend, is also freedom. We can call it freedom to be ill/have an accident. But don't expect any US politician / hollywood star to ever frame it that way.

See how much nothing this adds to the discussion? You may as well say "your definition of freedom is wrong and mine is right".

The best known measure to lower violent crime is lowering inequality (e.g. progressive taxation paying for free education etc.): https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2018/06/07/the-star...

* In the USA, if you're a health insurer, you are free to reject customers you don't like. In Europe, you're not. (Those rejected customers, in turn, are free to cover their own health expenses or die - their free choice).

* In the USA, you're free to buy guns. In Europe, you're not.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=no+way+to+prevent+this+site%3Atheo...

* In the US, you're free to drink a beer at the age of 20. In Europe, you're not. Ah, no, just kidding, it's the other way around.

* In California, you can have a beer after 2 am. Ah, who am I kidding, of course you can't.

In US you are free of people drinking a cold beer in sunny days in parks or in the beaches

I can own a radio or television capable of receiving broadcasts without having to pay a license and register it with the government.

I can say pretty much anything and not have the gov’t come after me for it.

Say something distasteful about a minority group in the UK and you’ll be punished for it.

Edit: would appreciate feedback if my comment is not constructive or could be improved in some way.

From my cultural upbringing having regulation in place to steer society does not stand at odds with freedom. And that's also by my cultural background not "convoluted".

If my freedom to text and drive impacts the right to life and freedom of those around me, it’s imperative to restrict that one freedom so the freedom of the society remains.

That’s not freedom.

On the US side, remember what happened when some states left the Union ?

I've long had the impression that people tend to define it in a way that values things they get in their home country, and devalues the things they don't. For example, an American is going to define "freedom of speech" in a way that ensures the government itself has almost no ability to limit things like political lobbying, because political lobbying, being a way to advance an opinion, is sacrosanct. A Canadian is more likely to want to define it in a way that allows for limiting the ability of people with lots and lots of money to drown out the voices of people of more modest financial means.

depends on the paper.

If it’s not 100% white, then it must be black. No other alternatives.

I wonder what would happen if you tried to claim insurance on a phone seized at the border?

There's an important divide between what customs is supposed to do, and what they might actually do in practice. Going through customs means putting yourself at the whims of people that you do not control.

If you're a white male, there's perhaps less of a chance that a bad employee will feel they can take advantage of you, but there's still the chance.

My experience is nearly always (but not always) being sent to secondary screening for anywhere from 20 minutes to 3 hours. When due to the detention I have missed an onward domestic connection, my airlines have always re-booked me without charge. My luggage is manually searched probably 2/3 of the time. Treatment from CBP officers varies from respectful just-doing-my-job (maybe 1 in 10 officers) to outright hostile (maybe 5 in 10 officers).

So long as you provide evidence for your claim to US citizenship--especially a valid passport--a 30 hour detention is certainly unreasonable, and @sneak should seriously consider filing a lawsuit against the director of the DHS for the constitutional tort and for violating his civil rights under color of law. Ideally he/she would seek injunctive relief preventing DHS/CBP from detaining people presenting themselves at the US border and claiming US citizenship for any longer than is necessary to verify the validity of the claim to citizenship.

Airport CBP checkpoints are extensively surveilled, and documentary proof of these violations can be subpoenaed. If actually filing a lawsuit is too much, you can submit a FOIA and Privacy Act request for all data CBP holds on you, including your TECS records. I doubt you can get audiovisual surveillance data without litigating a FOIA case, but it's also worth a shot. Prepare to wait 1+ year in any case.

Also, read stories of them saying you have no rights to an attorney or even to film them since they don't technically consider you in the US. You are in some limbo between countries. An entirely different ballgame than a traffic stop. But some of that stuff might just be some misconception, some they can lie to you but you can't lie to them.

Also stories of citizens, especially minorities who were even born in the US who say sometimes they get more trouble entering their home country than other places. Pretty sad stuff, I don't know if it's worse with the current administration or if this is a thing. Not something I've thought much about really much before but seeing it in the news more and more, pretty concerning stuff that seems to go against the founding principles of this very nation.

Then watching Orange is the new black, even though it's scripted it does touch on some very real issues. I don't think most people really think about these issues unless it affects them directly, but some pretty horrible stuff going on. The private prisons are contractually guaranteed a minimum number of inmates for example, and you can even buy stocks in them. So then if you are a shareholder, I guess more crime is than in your financial interest so the prisons you own a small piece keeps making money. Doubt any of those shareholders would even want to live anywhere near the prisons they invest in though either.

I have had CBP officers tell me that I have no right remain silent. I have had CBP officers tell me that I have no right to an attorney. I have had CBP officers tell to me that they will not let me into the country until I answer their questions. They are indeed liars. Stick to your guns and they will fold.

A US citizen is admissible once their claim to citizenship is verified and they have completed a written customs declaration. At some airports, CBP eschews written customs declarations and has a policy to interrogate passengers instead. In that case, simply demand to complete (or, better, bring along an already-completed) Form 6059B and maintain your refusal to answer questions.

Same, to all of it. They also told me they were going to arrest me and charge me with interfering with a border control point. Somehow after another 4 hours of declining to answer questions I was released without charge (into a northern Vermont snowstorm where I had no cell service and had to hitchhike to not freeze, due to them having sent the Montreal-Boston bus on without me, but that’s another story).

I know I seen there's world cruises for about 6 months, would be a dream for sure to be able to go on! Probably a lot of retired people or business owners.

I don't think so. Private prisons hold less than 10% of total inmates, so there's no way they'll be short even if suddenly the US started to jail half the people it does now.

Isn't lying to a federal agent a criminal offense in the US?

My dream is if ever got rich from tech or won the lottery, is to travel full time. By plane, train, cruise ship and then buy an RV to explore more of the US. I think RVs are super cool but feel they are a bit outdated compared to modern cars. So hoping by then they'd improve.

But I feel like living an alternative lifestyle would subject me to harassment at some point. I also dream of a mansion in central FL and supercars, but I'm also into minimalism and feel like there's more to life than just buying a bunch of fancy things, that need to be taken care of.

But even starting out as a nomad, I know many states give people trouble at the DMV for full time RVing since mail forwarders aren't considered a valid address, so a lot of people have to change their domicile to a friendlier state such as South Dakota which recognizes people who travel full time. You have a affidavit to fill out, bring proof you rented a mailbox and stayed a night in the state. it's estimated about a million full-time RVers. Then some people live out of boats or a suitcase traveling around.

There's a guy who goes by Super Mario who lives on cruise ships full time. https://youtu.be/bcBzOesw7sc - I think he's a investment advisor who works remotely now. However instead of going from ship to ship, he books on a ship that circles around the same area back to back for 6 months in advance so he can get the same room. The New York Times did a little min doc on him, but traveling over and over again like that wouldn't surprise me if they think he's a drug runner based on travel patterns unless they are aware of him by now for doing this so much times. There's some other interviews with him, pretty interesting lifestyle. I can see the pros and cons.

Dreaming about things is a bit of motivation, but also a bit of distraction too.

I quit my job and spent 2 years driving from AK to Argentina, then again to spend 3 years driving around Africa. I'm now a full-time nomad, and doing everything I can to never sit at a desk again (freelance writing, photography, published books, etc.)

I certainly get some good interactions at "first world" borders, but nothing really bad. When I drove into the US on my way to Argentina it was obvious the officer simply didn't believe I was going to drive into Mexico. Even with the map on my hood [1].

Recently I drove into the US with my passport full of visas from 35 different African countries (even Sudan, Congo, Nigeria, etc.). The border guard flipped through it and said "Wait, WHAT do you do?".. utterly confused. I told the whole story, showed him the new map on my hood and again he was just confused. Friendly, but confused.

I was detained once at the border coming in by bus from Canada... the border guard was not convinced I was not going to stay. After 5 hours they let me speak and I mentioned I had a ticket out of the country (flying out of LAX like a week later).. when I showed the ticket the officer said "Where's Sydney?"

It's all good.

[1] https://www.instagram.com/p/ByyD2J_lfmE/ [2] https://www.instagram.com/p/Bw4h0X_Fq_G/

I'm going to go with the fact that you're a white guy with dreads that made the border guards want to give you additional scrutiny. It had nothing to do with your story or vehicle.

How did you cross the Colombian jungle ?

I drove a much less ambitious route from Colorado to El Salvador and, of course, thought about continuing to go south ... but all accounts led me to believe that it was essentially impossible to drive continuously through Colombia ...

Looks like I've seen some of your videos on YouTube before, when looking at videos about people who live out of their Jeeps. However if money wasn't a limit I probably would want a class A RV, but the Jeep Wrangler makes a prefect tow car, people in the RV community call them toads. But you leave your RV at a camp spot and then can go explore in the Jeep, grocery shopping, etc without needing to break camp.

But yeah I think the nomad lifestyle has its challenges, but also some great things too. I love going to new places, reminds me of family road trips back when we used to go somewhere every year.

I know I got some family in law enforcement and was mentioning some of the stuff on the news once at like Christmas or Thanksgiving several years back, and they surely didn't like that. But then again they didn't like me talking about how I think circumcision is wrong either, apparently it hurts their religion too.

I know there's stories of cops being fired for speaking out about wrong doings, and even one was sent to a mental hospital for it but got a very large settlement with the city.

One of the sad things are people will see a clip on the news and judge all cops however. I always love it when I see heartwarming stories of cops doing good. For example recently someone was pulled over for lights being out and was having trouble with his wiring harness. So the cop actually helped him fix the car! Now that's real protecting and serving, in other areas probably write a ticket for revenue and of to the next, very impersonal.

I know I seen a video once of some cop in New Jersey who pulled over someone, the guy rolls down the window and the cop comes up yelling for license and registration. Can't even say hello or be cordial. Sure the guy might of broke a traffic law, but don't need to be a jerk about it. Not like he murdered someone, but even then stories of mass murderers being treated better. Dylann Roof apparently was taken through the drive thru.

So a question arises in me: why are they allegedly preferring whites over others in terms of extended screening measures etc.?

https://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/research-and-pu...

It seems controlled for the same crimes.

You have no basis for this claim at all. You should have stopped at your first point.

Obviously border control would quickly know about this, but there's no way to verify.

https://www.eff.org/wp/digital-privacy-us-border-2017

The company policy for travel outside the EU was simple... Your own laptop would go into a server room and become a remote desktop host, you'd be given a blank laptop. When you got to your destination safely you'd call up IT who'd tell you where to download the VPN software and provide you login details. If asked why you laptop was blank by border agents you were instructed to give them a copy of the company IT policy.

Which is all well and good border agents demand you go through the above process and log in to the VPN and then remote in to your own laptop. It happened on multiple occasions in several countries and in most cases the employee was deported after refusing to comply.

I think the expensive legal brains the company employs decided it is better to simply admit that they do it this way to stop border inspections. Better a deportation of a single employee rather than risk compromising their IT systems and data.

empty laptop or no, that brings up a general issue - border agent asks you to VPN into your corp network and to give them access into it (which beside a slew of corporate policies may also violate a bunch of laws like GDPR, HIPAA, SOX, EPA Clean Water and PCI compliance, etc - IANAL, so who knows what laws can be violated, all those corporate compliance and business conducts emails are so scary). Me being a little guy doing as i told/ordered to by the ones with authority, I'd just call corp IT security, some bozo high up the chain, and let them do their job - sort it out and make the decision. Sucks though for small companies without that fat and important corp IT security and all those C[compliance|information|customer privacy|security|sustainability|etc.]Os around.

The Irish branch has to comply with EU and Irish law. Think GDPR and various other laws relating to keeping financial data secure. Plus they would also have very strict contracts with their bigger clients guaranteeing the security and privacy of their super sensitive commercial data.

You would be unwise to assume that the data retrieved through a customs search of your laptop or phone wouldn't end up in your rivals possession.

This is the EFF's statement regarding wiped devides:

We don’t recommend disk wiping as a border crossing security measure for most travelers. It’s a less common data protection technique than the other ones highlighted in our guide, which include encryption and minimizing data that you carry. Wiping your computer will make it unusable to you. Also, it may draw the attention of border agents, since it is unusual for travelers to carry blank devices with them. This may be of particular concern to travelers who are not U.S. citizens, who may receive more scrutiny from border agents. Again, you should consider your risks and security needs carefully before deciding how best to secure your data for border crossings as everyone’s individual risk factors and data security needs are different.

https://www.eff.org/de/deeplinks/2017/07/crossing-us-border-...

You could probably stick a few innocuous photos and messages on it and claim you'd just upgraded or something.

Have fun.

Obscuring in this manner likely counts as lying to a federal officer, particularly if they catch on and ask if this is your main profile.

The only thing they can do is use fear to get you to comply, or make you doubt your deniable encryption scheme is truly secure.

If they really wanted to could they find out? Perhaps. Maybe if they use CCTV footage and extract your phones screen and do comparisons or something. If you are an individual though who has done something to warrant that level of scrutiny, perhaps the additional crime of lying to a Fed isn’t a big deal compared to whatever crime you have done.

It doesn't have to be scalable; border control already isn't scalable and relies on uniformed officers making decisions on the spot. It's not hard to add additional point in training that says, "if a person has suspiciously empty phone and the phone is a model X, ask them to unlock the second account; if they refuse or pretend they don't have one, apply 3-30 hours of pressure". This would probably cover 99% of cases.

No you don't. Not at the border.

Except those searches can be done at the behest of other law enforcement agencies and any information found can be shared with them.

I recommend reading through this document assembled by the EFF about various kinds of border searches and the constitutionality thereof.

https://www.eff.org/wp/digital-privacy-us-border-2017

Here's what the EFF does say about the CPB doing exactly what I described.

> The evidence includes ICE and CBP policies and practices that authorize border officers to conduct warrantless and suspicionless device searches for purposes beyond the enforcement of immigration and customs laws. Officials can search devices for general law enforcement purposes, such as enforcing bankruptcy, environmental, and consumer protection laws, and for intelligence gathering or to advance pre-existing investigations. Officers also consider requests from other government agencies to search devices. In addition, the agencies assert the authority to search electronic devices when the subject of interest is someone other than the traveler—such as when the traveler is a journalist or scholar with foreign sources who are of interest to the U.S. government, or even when the traveler is the business partner of someone under investigation. Both agencies further allow officers to retain information from travelers’ electronic devices and share it with other government entities, including state, local, and foreign law enforcement agencies.

https://www.eff.org/press/releases/new-documents-reveal-dhs-...

1) Backup phone then reset to factory before flying 2) Restore once through customs.

https://authy.com/blog/authy-vs-google-authenticator/

Serious question tho, can Authy be used on any website that supports Google Authenticator?

https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6238

It would be exceptionally hard to make it look like the phone is being used with the 2nd account. For one thing, having current email would be pretty mandatory to pass a sniff test.

https://support.1password.com/travel-mode/

I can’t imagine how you could go through customs without your bags and have them have specific evidence of your customs violation. I always assumed that’s why some airports make you manually handle luggage and “carry it over a line” to give back for rechecking.

Hardly a stealth move to pull at the border!