News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:U.S. Supreme Court rejects Amazon warehouse worker wage a... by jbob2000 on Monday October 07, 2019 @11:14AM (#21181807)
I get what you're saying, but these are the ways that management finds the margins that allow you to receive cheap products on your doorstep in 2 days.
Re:U.S. Supreme Court rejects Amazon warehouse worker wage a... by DangitBobby on Monday October 07, 2019 @11:16AM (#21181834)
Then the products should cost more or get here in 3 days.
Re:U.S. Supreme Court rejects Amazon warehouse worker wage a... by dev_dull on Monday October 07, 2019 @11:23AM (#21181916)
Kind of like how people say “then unhappy amazon employees should simply find another job”?
Re:U.S. Supreme Court rejects Amazon warehouse worker wage a... by Buge on Monday October 07, 2019 @11:36AM (#21182108)
I don't see how it's that similar. Employees getting a new job is often very difficult, so would create a lot of difficulty for a lot of people. Whereas Amazon raising their prices by a few cents shouldn't be much work.
Re:U.S. Supreme Court rejects Amazon warehouse worker wage a... by mikelyons on Monday October 07, 2019 @01:47PM (#21183795)
It's not about the difficulty of raising prices, it's about the impact to the bottom line profit to shareholders when a few cents is extrapolated over a billion transactions.
Re:U.S. Supreme Court rejects Amazon warehouse worker wage a... by Buge on Monday October 07, 2019 @02:33PM (#21184359)
The percent impact would be negligible, I expect lower than daily fluctuation. Anyway, the law isn't just designed to protect shareholders, it's designed to protect everyone.

If someone can make money by fraud, that money is not justification to allow fraud. The US economy relies on dependable contacts.

Re:U.S. Supreme Court rejects Amazon warehouse worker wage a... by Supermancho on Monday October 07, 2019 @03:10PM (#21184761)
> Anyway, the law isn't just designed to protect shareholders,

Which law? "The Law" as an ideal, is impartial. That's irrelevant. In practice, applied law (and the cousin enforced law) leads to biased results, favoring the wealthy and the status quo while remaining "impartial".

Re:U.S. Supreme Court rejects Amazon warehouse worker wage a... by Buge on Monday October 07, 2019 @09:47PM (#21187893)
Ok, then "the law shouldn't be just designed".

We shouldn't let a defeatist attitude discourage attempts at improvement.

Re:U.S. Supreme Court rejects Amazon warehouse worker wage a... by Supermancho on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @11:50PM (#21266893)
Nor should we pretend "the law" is perfect in application and outcome...or why would anyone try to improve it?
Re:U.S. Supreme Court rejects Amazon warehouse worker wage a... by uoaei on Monday October 07, 2019 @03:41PM (#21185113)
Percent impact is non-negligible when you consider the impatience of the average consumer.
Re:U.S. Supreme Court rejects Amazon warehouse worker wage a... by Buge on Monday October 07, 2019 @09:38PM (#21187857)
I was thinking Amazon would raise prices slightly, not make stuff slower.
Re:U.S. Supreme Court rejects Amazon warehouse worker wage a... by DangitBobby on Monday October 07, 2019 @11:34AM (#21182084)
Damn, yeah, I guess these guys should really be asking their new employer if they'll be subject to wage theft before they get hired.
Re:U.S. Supreme Court rejects Amazon warehouse worker wage a... by mikelyons on Monday October 07, 2019 @01:46PM (#21183773)
Or just a̶s̶s̶u̶m̶e̶ be vigilant about it, corporations are amoral profit machines and have no incentive to care about replaceable workers.
Re:U.S. Supreme Court rejects Amazon warehouse worker wage a... by jonfw on Monday October 07, 2019 @02:40PM (#21184430)
I have no incentive to care about the grocery store I frequent, but it is still illegal for me to steal from them and I can expect to be held accountable by the government in the event that I do steal from them.

I'm very libertarian- but at the end of the day I will always support the government authority to punish theft. And a failure to pay employees the agreed upon rate is theft.

Re:U.S. Supreme Court rejects Amazon warehouse worker wage a... by mikelyons on Monday October 07, 2019 @07:24PM (#21187060)
You're neglecting to consider that you have to be caught.
Re:U.S. Supreme Court rejects Amazon warehouse worker wage a... by bigj0n on Monday October 07, 2019 @09:03PM (#21187661)
Amazon was just being tried in court.

This isnt about being caught- the evidence is clear as day and was presented in court.

This is about a failure of our legal system to protect basic rights of a laborer to be paid the agreed upon rate.

Re:U.S. Supreme Court rejects Amazon warehouse worker wage a... by mikelyons on Tuesday October 08, 2019 @12:42AM (#21188834)
He was talking about their next job ...
Re:U.S. Supreme Court rejects Amazon warehouse worker wage a... by gerbilly on Monday October 07, 2019 @11:40AM (#21182156)
There's a huge imbalance of power between the company and an individual worker. So it's "kind of" not the same at all.

Why are people so quick to defend the powerful?

Re:U.S. Supreme Court rejects Amazon warehouse worker wage a... by kazagistar on Monday October 07, 2019 @11:52AM (#21182321)
This is the site of a tech investment company. Its full of the rich and powerful who are protecting themselves.
Re:U.S. Supreme Court rejects Amazon warehouse worker wage a... by eropple on Monday October 07, 2019 @12:41PM (#21182901)
Aspiring rich and powerful. Most people here (myself very much included) remain part of the precariat, and the fangs-out defense of the rich and powerful is most frequently done by those who, in the end, may manage to not lose but likely will not win.

John Steinbeck wasn't wrong.

Re:U.S. Supreme Court rejects Amazon warehouse worker wage a... by 4ntonius8lock on Monday October 07, 2019 @12:50PM (#21183020)
Human beings are tribal creatures, not individualists.

As such, we have leaders and followers.

By definition of leaders and followers, most people will be followers, whether for genetic or environmental reasons.

Followers will always support those who are leaders. In our current society, that would mean the powerful.

If you don't believe me, look at behavioral sciences. Most people will shock someone to death just because an authority said so (yes the Millgram experiments were biased, but the results aren't completely invalidated by that)

Re:U.S. Supreme Court rejects Amazon warehouse worker wage a... by ummonk on Monday October 07, 2019 @12:05PM (#21182489)
If Amazon sends you a different product, or charges your credit card more than the claimed price, do you just simply find another retailer, or do you demand a refund?
Re:U.S. Supreme Court rejects Amazon warehouse worker wage a... by slothtrop on Monday October 07, 2019 @11:25AM (#21181940)
let's head over to the job tree, what sort of bullshit dropping to the ground today?
Re:U.S. Supreme Court rejects Amazon warehouse worker wage a... by goto11 on Monday October 07, 2019 @11:47AM (#21182253)
I don't see how it should affect the speed of delivery that the Amazon employees gets paid for their time? But yeah it might affect the price - or Amazon might be able to optimize the "security check" if they have to compensate workers for the wasted time.
Re:U.S. Supreme Court rejects Amazon warehouse worker wage a... by jbob2000 on Monday October 07, 2019 @12:09PM (#21182526)
Money saved on labour means you can spend more money on more labour! Or you can buy more machines, or you could invest in a project to reduce packaging times, etc. etc. There's probably not a direct correlation between saving on security checks and reduced shipping time, but it's all connected. Maybe paying these wages means there's no money for more robots, so packaging things will take longer?
Re:U.S. Supreme Court rejects Amazon warehouse worker wage a... by Dylan16807 on Monday October 07, 2019 @12:51PM (#21183041)
> Maybe paying these wages means there's no money for more robots, so packaging things will take longer?

Packing an individual box takes minutes. So it's a question of capacity, and it's pretty binary. If they have enough capacity then a large majority of items can ship within a couple hours. If they don't have enough capacity then the 90th percentile shipping time becomes indefinite/never. A situation where packaging takes an extra day, end of story, is unlikely and unstable.

And I'd say that some robots are R&D, so not having money for them has no effect on shipping times, and the rest are a cost-saving measure, so they'll always have the money.

Re:U.S. Supreme Court rejects Amazon warehouse worker wage a... by SolaceQuantum on Monday October 07, 2019 @12:16PM (#21182611)
" Maybe paying these wages means there's no money for more robots, so packaging things will take longer?"

It's not like Amazon is running a zero sum balance sheet here. They have profits this could take out of and maintain all their service and speed.

Re:U.S. Supreme Court rejects Amazon warehouse worker wage a... by pnutjam on Monday October 07, 2019 @03:18PM (#21184862)
Not the workers problem.
Re:U.S. Supreme Court rejects Amazon warehouse worker wage a... by wnevets on Monday October 07, 2019 @11:50AM (#21182298)
this would cost the customer an extra penny, maybe a nickel?
Re:U.S. Supreme Court rejects Amazon warehouse worker wage a... by kaikai on Monday October 07, 2019 @02:23PM (#21184249)
The Coalition of Immokalee Workers famously used this argument as part of their campaign for farmworkers. The argument was that fast food companies paying 1 cent more per lb. for their tomatoes would have a huge benefit for the workers picking the tomatoes, and they won.
Re:U.S. Supreme Court rejects Amazon warehouse worker wage a... by jbob2000 on Monday October 07, 2019 @12:05PM (#21182488)
That wouldn't be the news headline, though. The customer would find out about the cost increase via an article titled something like "Amazon increases prices by up to 20%, are your favourite purchases affected?".

I'm with you though, it costs the consumer nothing.

Re:U.S. Supreme Court rejects Amazon warehouse worker wage a... by Frondo on Monday October 07, 2019 @12:57PM (#21183123)
This could be addressed by having more labor-conscious journalists and headline writers.

Framing it that way, of course people would respond negatively to price increases.

"Amazon workers now paid for all the time they're clocked in, prices may be affected" is a lot more sympathetic to workers.

Re:U.S. Supreme Court rejects Amazon warehouse worker wage a... by blaser-waffle on Tuesday October 08, 2019 @09:07AM (#21191826)
Labor conscious writers mean nothing if their editors (and newspaper / website / whatever) owners disagree. Ultimately the wordsmiths need to get paid, too, and they write what gets them money -- which is what their bosses want to print.
Re:U.S. Supreme Court rejects Amazon warehouse worker wage a... by stallmanite on Monday October 07, 2019 @02:17PM (#21184187)
I feel like they're labor conscious they just don't give a fuck or are actively opposed.
Re:U.S. Supreme Court rejects Amazon warehouse worker wage a... by mnm1 on Monday October 07, 2019 @12:13PM (#21182563)
Two day shipping of cheap products justify not paying employees for their time? Wtf?
Re:U.S. Supreme Court rejects Amazon warehouse worker wage a... by jbob2000 on Monday October 07, 2019 @12:15PM (#21182599)
I don't agree with it, but two day shipping is the silver bullet that separates Amazon from the competition. I don't hear these stories about Walmart or Costco's warehouses, clearly there's something about the way Amazon does business that causes these problems.
Re:U.S. Supreme Court rejects Amazon warehouse worker wage a... by SolaceQuantum on Monday October 07, 2019 @12:17PM (#21182622)
I hear a lot of horrific stuff about Walmart working, actually, including their anti-uninionizing efforts. Costco IIRC actually just plain cares for their employees and is doing well in its niche.
Re:U.S. Supreme Court rejects Amazon warehouse worker wage a... by specialist on Monday October 07, 2019 @02:26PM (#21184276)
Sam's Club (Walmart) != Costco

Please refer to this documentary about Walmart. They're not just anti-labor.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wal-Mart:_The_High_Cost_of_Low...

While Walmart didn't invent bad behavior, they're pretty good at it.

Re:U.S. Supreme Court rejects Amazon warehouse worker wage a... by joejerryronnie on Monday October 07, 2019 @02:13PM (#21184131)
Not sure why you’re being downvoted here (maybe a misunderstanding of what you’re trying to say?) My takeaway from your comment is that we should first look to our own hypocrisy, i.e. we’re quick to post a comment about Amazon’s unfair labor practices, but we’re just a little quicker to click on that free 2-day prime shipping button.
Re:U.S. Supreme Court rejects Amazon warehouse worker wage a... by ClumsyPilot on Monday October 07, 2019 @03:12PM (#21184788)
I thought I was getting my product from a regulated and audited public company.

If I wanted to take law into my own hands I might as well go to the local gangsters and smugglers.

Re:U.S. Supreme Court rejects Amazon warehouse worker wage a... by joejerryronnie on Monday October 07, 2019 @03:54PM (#21185253)
At least you can purchase from your local gangsters and smugglers with a clear conscience ;-)
Re:U.S. Supreme Court rejects Amazon warehouse worker wage a... by goto11 on Monday October 07, 2019 @02:24PM (#21184266)
What is hypocritical about that?