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Re:Federal Judge Upholds Harvard's Race-Conscious Admissions... by JPKab on Tuesday October 01, 2019 @08:45PM (#21132442)
Do you think the kids in poor immigrant neighborhoods are in worse positions than poor kids in eastern Kentucky? Because the current policies treat white kids from trailer parks like white kids from fancy suburbs. And they treat FOB Asians like they are doctor's children. And black kids from fancy suburbs are treated as if they came from poor ghettos.

The idea that "oppression" is limited to dimensions of race and gender, rather than ethnic/economic/geographic/etc is as juvenile as it is political useful.

You have had up close experience with one kind of disadvantaged community, and act as if that is the only group that has it. The difference between urban communities and places like Clay County, Kentucky is that volunteers like you won't ever get sent to Kentucky.

Re:Federal Judge Upholds Harvard's Race-Conscious Admissions... by shadowgovt on Tuesday October 01, 2019 @11:21PM (#21133193)
> Do you think the kids in poor immigrant neighborhoods are in worse positions than poor kids in eastern Kentucky?

Your line of reasoning did a dodge there, swapping out between geographic demographics and racial demographics.

I don't think all kids in poor immigrant neighborhoods are in worse positions than poor kids in Eastern Kentucky. I do think that all the white-looking kids in eastern Kentucky, regardless of other factors stacked against them, will never be denied a job, loan, or rental opportunity based on the color of their skin. I can't say the same for the kids from any of those regions who don't look white.

Re:Federal Judge Upholds Harvard's Race-Conscious Admissions... by nilkn on Wednesday October 02, 2019 @12:05AM (#21133339)
It’s almost 2020, not 1940. We have major cities that are majority nonwhite. We have entire statewide school districts that are mostly nonwhite. We have huge metropolitan areas that are mostly nonwhite. You can walk into an expensive luxury apartment complex in an immigrant heavy city and find tons of nonwhite people.
Re:Federal Judge Upholds Harvard's Race-Conscious Admissions... by Volundr on Thursday October 03, 2019 @12:25AM (#21143697)
The Little Rock Nine was 1957. What do you believe happened to all those people who protested and threatened violence against those children? What do you think they taught their children?

The idea that we have somehow magically eradicated racism over the course of a single generation astounds me.

Seriously, it's almost 2020. You should get how close to the 1960s that is.

Re:Federal Judge Upholds Harvard's Race-Conscious Admissions... by JPKab on Sunday October 06, 2019 @10:49PM (#21176902)
Just want to point out that in the same time period, Asians were heavily discriminated against in northern California.

And yet there is no trace of it now. I doubt you have set foot in Arkansas, because your implication that the attitudes haven't changed much is grossly inaccurate.

Re:Federal Judge Upholds Harvard's Race-Conscious Admissions... by widowlark on Wednesday October 02, 2019 @12:59AM (#21133554)
And yet the data still shows widespread economic disparity due to discrimination
Re:Federal Judge Upholds Harvard's Race-Conscious Admissions... by webgoat on Wednesday October 02, 2019 @02:12AM (#21133791)
The data also shows widespread economic disparity due to geography, yet Harvard doesn't give the poor kids an extra 200 points on their SAT. If Harvard actually cared about this issue they would create additional scholarship programs that review people on a case-by-case basis rather than a blanket policy.
Re:Federal Judge Upholds Harvard's Race-Conscious Admissions... by mlevental on Wednesday October 02, 2019 @08:12AM (#21135531)
geography isn't a protected class. it's not a class at all. it's a set of circumstances. your skin color and the privileges or liabilities incurred are inescapable.
Re:Federal Judge Upholds Harvard's Race-Conscious Admissions... by thaumasiotes on Wednesday October 02, 2019 @11:19AM (#21137388)
> geography isn't a protected class

Frequently it is. Many laws specifically protect "national origin".

Re:Federal Judge Upholds Harvard's Race-Conscious Admissions... by shadowgovt on Wednesday October 02, 2019 @11:42AM (#21137656)
Kentucky isn't a "national origin."
Re:Federal Judge Upholds Harvard's Race-Conscious Admissions... by f1refly on Wednesday October 02, 2019 @12:31PM (#21138286)
Kentucky doesn't has the support a specific national origin might have because there are no laws about that yet. It's an analogy.
Re:Federal Judge Upholds Harvard's Race-Conscious Admissions... by shadowgovt on Wednesday October 02, 2019 @12:58PM (#21138543)
If you think "being from Kentucky" should be treated the same as "being from Ireland," you're welcome to make a case to your Congressperson.

Good luck.

Re:Federal Judge Upholds Harvard's Race-Conscious Admissions... by throwaway_law on Thursday October 03, 2019 @09:13AM (#21146534)
>Many laws specifically protect "national origin"

What laws? The US Constitution provides significantly greater protections to US Citizens than foreign nationals, as many of rights are not extended to non-citizens.

Re:Federal Judge Upholds Harvard's Race-Conscious Admissions... by mlevental on Wednesday October 02, 2019 @02:36PM (#21139438)
i love this kind of red herring: we're very obviously talking about intranational geography. as the person below me quips: kentucky isn't a nation of origin.
Re:Federal Judge Upholds Harvard's Race-Conscious Admissions... by DuskStar on Wednesday October 02, 2019 @01:17PM (#21138717)
> And yet the data still shows widespread economic disparity due to discrimination

The data shows widespread economic disparity. It does not show the cause, which may or may not be discrimination.

Re:Federal Judge Upholds Harvard's Race-Conscious Admissions... by strathmeyer on Wednesday October 02, 2019 @03:26PM (#21139922)
It's not fair to hurt people just because you think others have been hurt. You're just furthering the abuse. Many white people have been denied housing, education, and jobs because of their skin. You can't solve ignorance with more ignorance. You're literally talking about ruining peoples' lives because of your racism.
Re:Federal Judge Upholds Harvard's Race-Conscious Admissions... by shadowgovt on Wednesday October 02, 2019 @05:00PM (#21140698)
> Many white people have been denied housing, education, and jobs because of their skin.

[citation needed]

Re:Federal Judge Upholds Harvard's Race-Conscious Admissions... by fromky on Wednesday October 02, 2019 @04:04AM (#21134257)
This is actually factually incorrect. White kids from different economic backgrounds are treated identically != race-conscious admissions policies as they are currently described in the ruling. And FOB Asians is not an economic class, so I am not sure what argument you are trying to make. Is FOB Asian supposed to be poor? Because you need them to visit some places like Vancouver and Waterloo.

I think your point that oppression is not only racial but socioeconomic is not misguided. But as I understand it, the ruling does not preclude adjustments based on the access and opportunity limitations you refer to, which are not strictly limited to a particular race.

Re:Federal Judge Upholds Harvard's Race-Conscious Admissions... by throwaway_law on Wednesday October 02, 2019 @08:33AM (#21135657)
>Do you think the kids in poor immigrant neighborhoods are in worse positions than poor kids in eastern Kentucky?

You have to distinguish affirmative action (in hiring/employment) and race based factors in college admissions.

Most colleges that use race/minority status as a factor in admissions also generally also use socioeconomic status as a factor. However, I am not familiar with any employment/hiring based affirmative action that looks at socioeconomic status.

Just as an example, I went to a top 50 (at the time) public high school in the country, the school is located in a large city (hint: where Jeff Bezos went). I had a 4.0 GPA and was the 50th percentile of the class, approximately #750 out of 1500 kids in my class. Colleges take that into account and I would never have made it to an ivy league (I did get 1 offer, but because I was an athlete and they wanted me to compete for them), but all things being equal if I came from that poor rural area you reference I would be looked at like a scholar, maybe even #1 in the graduating class vs #750, and I might have had multiple Ivy league admissions.

Re:Federal Judge Upholds Harvard's Race-Conscious Admissions... by thaumasiotes on Wednesday October 02, 2019 @11:18AM (#21137370)
> I would never have made it to an ivy league (I did get 1 offer
[dead]
Re:Federal Judge Upholds Harvard's Race-Conscious Admissions... by tamizhar on Tuesday October 01, 2019 @10:21PM (#21132926)
> Asians adolescent academic performance is a worse predictor of this than for Europeans.

Why do you think this is the case?