I also swear I had read articles months/years before that companies like Apple literally photographed motherboards before shipping and compared them after arriving to look out for hardware tampering in transit. That, to me, shows they are not only aware of issues like that, but taking meaningful steps to detect it.
Edit: Here's an article from 2016 about it https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-worried-about-spy-tech...
Apple cares about supply chain integrity, but it’s not enough to stop this kind of threat.
Not just plausible; something not altogether dissimilar was documented to have been happening by the Snowden documents back in 2014: https://www.engadget.com/2014/05/16/nsa-bugged-cisco-routers...
I'm good with Bloomberg being expected to do a better job covering this activity than they have. And, without further evidence that it's actually happening, I can't quite take the step into believing that it's probably happening, because that way lies tin foil hats.
But for all the security researchers that straight up claim that what Bloomberg reported was impossible, I wonder what their opinion would have been about reports that the NSA was bugging routing and server hardware in transit before 2014?
I wonder why we're so collectively afraid of being labeled 'conspiracy theorists'. What is so wrong with supposing that bad things are being done intentionally?
It's a pernicious bug in certain kinds of psychology that makes it quite hard for someone to tell the difference between nightmarish fantasy and reality. I don't want it.
When reality has repeatedly put nightmarish fantasy to shame - mostly for lack of imagination on fantasy's part - it's not unreasonable to question the line between optimism-laced skepticism and naivety.
People used to have dreams they aspired to. Now we have nightmares we want to see happen. I don't want it either, but apparently society at large does.
original: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=53510#relPage...
text format: http://www.jfklancer.com/CIA.html
I think it was Wired that broke the story about AT&T's secret fiber-splitting rooms several years before they were later confirmed by Snowden's leaks. Given the entities and sheer amount of resources in play (or available to be used for that sort of thing), it's not nearly as tinfoil-hattish as, say, HAARP.
A subset of the perceived issues with the reporting:
- How do the exploited servers phone home to China, when they were not connected to the open Internet? Not impossible, but it's asking for a lot of trust without more information. [0]
- One of the only named sources, Ryan Fitzpatrick, saying the details in their big hack article are identical to an example he constructed for the journalists to show that type of attack is plausible. The entire podcast is a great listen, but here is a direct quote: "In September when he asked me like, 'Okay, hey, we think it looks like a signal amplifier or a coupler. What’s a coupler? What does it look like?' […] I sent him a link to Mouser, a catalog where you can buy a 0.006 x 0.003 inch coupler. Turns out that’s the exact coupler in all the images in the story." [1]
- An accusation that the journalists who authored the Big Hack have had a previous story that made a big claim, they had many anonymous sources that back up their claims, but in the end there were extreme doubts of the veracity from people in the know. [2]
- Bloomberg sent another reporter, completely separate from the Big Hack article, in their tracks to discreetly talk to sources / involved parties to figure out the truth. [3]
Sources:
[0] https://daringfireball.net/2018/10/bloomberg_the_big_hack
[1] https://risky.biz/RB517_feature/
[2] https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1049617855396933632.html
[3] https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/wp/2018/11/...
I do agree there was a lot of "but SPI requires 6 wires and the slave can only respond when talked to" (treating SPI with the assumptions of a design engineer rather than an attacker), but that was ultimately just noise.
Remember BadBIOS?
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BadBIOS
Same problem. EVERYTHING that Dragos Ruiu claimed is plausible, and it could be a great cyberpunk plot written by Neal Stephenson. But there is ZERO evidence that the malware actually exists.
And finding an actual incident in real life is much more important than theoretical possibilities. For example, almost everyone knows that it's very possible for semiconductor vendors to include a silicon-level backdoor since the 1980s, but finding an actual Intel/AMD chip with such backdoor (not ME, something like a secret instructions) is another matter.
The impact of the BMC affair, if true, is showing real evidence and real demonstration that such an attack has happened, has been used in the wild, rather than showing that the attack is possible (we all know). Unfortunately, bad journalism at work.
P.S: I'm not saying that the ME subsystem, or buggy speculation (pun not intended) isn't a threat, just to make a point.
> I'd be pretty concerned about ME bugs and backdoors disguised as ME bugs.
Same consequences. I'd say they're effectively the same thing.
I guess this says everything about corporations caring about security.
I was excited to read the news story, and it was a huge disappointment.
And yeah, it was a graphic that wasn't entirely accurate; welcome to print journalism.
But you're right, it's been a year now and no further evidence has surfaced which seems odd.
To be clear: I'm not saying it didn't happen, just that I'm skeptical about the validity and details of their story unless they have something to back it up with.
And the story was that the targeted boards were either destroyed or handed off to the government, are you asking for someone to have probably risked jail time by holding onto one of them?
In national security matters like this it's okay to be skeptical about reporting and sources because journalists have gotten in wrong before, probably because of how difficult it is to investigate without endangering the sources.
You’re the first person to even propose such a thing
IIRC it was also heavily focused on Supermicro, without any distinction whether Supermicro was specifically targeted or just happened to supply the boards that were bugged and caught.
[0] eg showing a chip, or ideally the whole motherboard system. Does it actually rewrite instructions going by on MISO or was something else more practical? Parasitic energy harvesting? Inquiring minds want to know!!
No, it's not acceptable if it's a highly-controversial claim in an industry or topic that normally comes with proof of exploitation. They should've got it even if it was independent party vetting it that most would trust who wouldn't give too many details that would compromise an investigation. They could get money and/or advertising for doing the review. Otherwise, present it like it's information coming from anonymous, unvetted sources who could be full of shit.
Remember that anonymous doesn't mean unvetted.
And that leak was over literally millions of lives, so it's not like an intelligence arm of a Nation state doing its job in peace time is so more serious that the standards are higher.
Anonymous certainly doesn't mean unvetted. We should have something come out of the stories if something big is going on, though. If we don't, we have no reason to believe them if the source has other screwups on their record.
I recall it being you, but it must not have been.
And it really doesn’t take much effort to sneak even a bashbunny into an internal USB header - especially in the last mile of the supply-chain.
Get a temp-job as a UPS delivery driver in an area that services the datacenter of your target, whenever you deliver a sever box - open it up, add your implant, re-seal it all in the privacy of the back of your delivery truck, and that’s it.
Everything they said about the BMC was plausible. It was bizzare hearing about how such a scheme would literally break the laws of physics, when by accident (read shitty, undebugged HDL) I've caused exactly what they were claiming.