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Re:Driving an Ambulance in the Age of Narcan by staticautomatic on Saturday September 07, 2019 @01:28PM (#20905213)
I live in SF and work in Civic Center. Not long ago I attended to a guy who was OD'ing on the sidewalk, and a number of things about the experience surprised me. I called 911 when the guy started seizing. He stopped breathing but still had a decent radial pulse, and I was surprised that the 911 operator wanted me to start chest compressions nonetheless. I was doubly surprised that the operator wanted me to stay on the phone while I did it, which is basically impossible. I just said "I know how to do it I'm putting the phone down." As I was doing it I yelled for Narcan and the junkies on the block immediately leapt into action trying to find some. Eventually somebody came by with some and set about giving him an IM injection. I thought, "I don't know if that needle is clean but I also don't know when the EMT's will get here so I guess it's better for him to get hep or HIV than for him to die." When the EMT's finally showed (probably quicker than it seemed) the first thing they did was start yelling at everyone, especially the woman with the Narcan. I found it very unprofessional.
Re:Driving an Ambulance in the Age of Narcan by neilv on Saturday September 07, 2019 @01:54PM (#20905385)
I'm very glad you and the nearby opioid addicts were able to help that person.

Regarding the EMTs yelling, could they have been trying to clear people away, to be confident the scene safe for themselves (one of the first steps I've heard some first responders have), or to get access to the patient? Or maybe the opioid epidemic is wearing heavily on them, though they keep doing their job?

(I looked into EMT-B training a while ago, and it's a really difficult, scary, and severely underpaid job. I probably couldn't do that job for very long, emotionally, even if I could afford it financially. Ironically, the compensation for being an EMT, helping people, seems unfortunately backwards, by societal value, with a lot of software jobs I'm considering right now.)

Re:Driving an Ambulance in the Age of Narcan by hyperdimension on Saturday September 07, 2019 @02:48PM (#20905719)
I agree with you re: the bottom point about EMT's salaries. It's the same with teachers; they're one of the most essential parts of society, and they're paid so little.

An example: in Georgia, just picking a random county, teachers make around 20,000~60,000$ a year, leaning more toward the lower end. It seems that importance to society and salary are negatively correlated...

You can look them up here: http://open.georgia.gov/openga/salaryTravel/list

Also, a somewhat-related video I watched recently (a fantastic channel, by the way:) https://youtube.com/watch?v=VOAaFyv_shY

Re:Driving an Ambulance in the Age of Narcan by lostlogin on Saturday September 07, 2019 @03:24PM (#20905921)
> I agree with you re: the bottom point about EMT's salaries. It's the same with teachers.

It toils be interesting to see if these problems were related. Eg invest heavily in education and teachers, and would the demands on EMTs fall?

Re:Driving an Ambulance in the Age of Narcan by nine_k on Saturday September 07, 2019 @03:09PM (#20905835)
> they're one of the most essential parts of society, and they're paid so little.

They can somehow hire enough even at this salaries, and appear to think that's enough. Quality of education is hard to measure, and it takes very long to measure, much longer than a typical election term.

Re:Driving an Ambulance in the Age of Narcan by FlyMoreRockets on Saturday September 07, 2019 @10:27PM (#20908204)
Agreed, however the turnover is terrible. With the low wages and tough working conditions, the department I worked had 15 EMT-firefighters when fully staffed, which was pretty much never. We averaged a little over two and a half new hires a year the time I worked there, nearl 17 percent turnover, every year. Ran into a former coworker a the grocery store a few months ago, he told me an entire shift just quit, a third of the department. That is no way to run a business.
Re:Driving an Ambulance in the Age of Narcan by epiphanitus on Saturday September 07, 2019 @08:17PM (#20907633)
>> I agree with you re: the bottom point about EMT's salaries. It's the same with teachers; they're one of the most essential parts of society, and they're paid so little.

See also:

- Truckers

- Farmers (though some do pretty well) and farmhands

- Janitors

- Babysitters

- Teaching assistants

- Receptionists

Re:Driving an Ambulance in the Age of Narcan by FlyMoreRockets on Saturday September 07, 2019 @10:12PM (#20908159)
Recently retired EMT here. Kudos for saving a life. I very seldom saw a person OD more than once, but it happens some times. I once ran on the same guy ODing three times in 24 hours. He died of an OD a few weeks later, though not on my shift. He was only 18. Folks, if you are going to use opiates, keep a friend that knows CPR with you. Simple chest compressions can keep adequate air exchange until somebody arrives with Narcan.

There are two drugs I carried that had an instand life saving effect: Narcan and D50 (50% dextrose solution). Somebody with low blood sugar will often present with a radically altered level of response, if they are even conscious. Start an IV, push D50 and within seconds, they sit up and talk to you as if nothing is out of the ordinary. Be advised, it is relatively short lived and the patient needs to consume some complex carbohydrates or protien to sustain their blood sugar levels.

Yes, it is terribly under paid, but there is great job security. I worked tech/research most of my adult life, but market and government priority changes made it really tough to work toward a retirement. It seems every few years, either the project was cancelled, or the line was shut down.

As an EMT/firefighter, my minimum week was 56 hours (by federal law due to the standard 33% duty cycle of a 24 hour, 7 day week) and sometimes nearly double that. Unfortunately, only the firstw 40 hours, (at just above minimuim wage) applied toward retirement benefits where I worked.

Re:Driving an Ambulance in the Age of Narcan by dreamcompiler on Saturday September 07, 2019 @09:59PM (#20908106)
I got a lot of satisfaction from being an EMT-B. But no pay; I was a volunteer. If you're at all interested and you already have a day job I recommend you seek out a volunteer fire department near where you live, or move to an area that has one. Often they will pay for your training if you agree to be on call.
Re:Driving an Ambulance in the Age of Narcan by petschge on Saturday September 07, 2019 @08:01PM (#20907552)
The reason why they tell you to start chest compressions when the breathing stops even if you think you feel a pulse is that it is really easy to feel your own pulse, especially in such a high pressure situation. If the electric circuitry of the heart is still intact you wont damage it, but if you skipped compression because you felt your pulse that person is very dead.

On what is so hard with putting the cell phone on speaker and setting it down next to the downed person? Your are still on the line but have your hands free?

Aside from that: thanks for helping a fellow human and congratulations on keeping it together under high pressure.

Re:Driving an Ambulance in the Age of Narcan by FlyMoreRockets on Saturday September 07, 2019 @10:39PM (#20908261)
: The reason why they tell you to start chest compressions

is because it creates adequate air exchange to keep somebody alive until Narcan is administered.

Re:Driving an Ambulance in the Age of Narcan by petschge on Sunday September 08, 2019 @12:02AM (#20908535)
Well yeah. Chest compressions produce enough air exchange even without rescue breath to keep the person alive for 5-10 minutes. If you have to do CPR longer than that outcomes are better with rescue breath. I hope you do have a mask or at least a face shield when you have to do that for a stranger...
Re:Driving an Ambulance in the Age of Narcan by rdtsc on Saturday September 07, 2019 @06:34PM (#20907085)
A policeman I know was telling me how a few times he had to get Narcan from the nearby junkies to save the person who was OD-ing.

I had forgotten to ask if there is any legality or cover-your-ass issues there, say if they infect the person or the Narcan ends up being something else that kills the person. I imagine they probably thought this person is going to die and decided to do it anyway.

Re:Driving an Ambulance in the Age of Narcan by jpindar on Saturday September 07, 2019 @09:46PM (#20908041)
Re:Driving an Ambulance in the Age of Narcan by FlyMoreRockets on Saturday September 07, 2019 @10:30PM (#20908215)
Good Samaritan law does not apply to first responders unless they are volunteers.
Re:Driving an Ambulance in the Age of Narcan by soulofmischief on Saturday September 07, 2019 @01:49PM (#20905357)
It's sad that such altruistic behavior can lead to massive litigation, but that's probably what the EMTs were thinking. You did the right thing for sure, but I'm willing to bet junkies are statistically more likely to attempt litigation in order to feed their addiction.
Re:Driving an Ambulance in the Age of Narcan by snazz on Saturday September 07, 2019 @02:35PM (#20905641)
Good Samaritan laws are pretty common in the US to solve that problem.
Re:Driving an Ambulance in the Age of Narcan by cobbzilla on Saturday September 07, 2019 @03:17PM (#20905877)
many Good Samaritan laws don’t apply to licensed providers, and excessive litigation is absolutely a problem.

In my town, an ambulance was involved in a traffic collision. The ambulance was not moving, and was still found to be at fault. Go figure.

Re:Driving an Ambulance in the Age of Narcan by 1123581321 on Saturday September 07, 2019 @03:58PM (#20906111)
Can you elaborate on the circumstances? Regardless, traffic collision at-fault rulings have little to do with professional error liability.
Re:Driving an Ambulance in the Age of Narcan by monieseee on Saturday September 07, 2019 @08:57PM (#20907813)
Maybe it was parked in a really stupid way which made a collision likely.
Re:Driving an Ambulance in the Age of Narcan by misterdoubt on Saturday September 07, 2019 @05:54PM (#20906799)
Yes, junkies overdosing in public are well-known for their legal acumen.
Re:Driving an Ambulance in the Age of Narcan by FlyMoreRockets on Saturday September 07, 2019 @10:31PM (#20908221)
Re:Driving an Ambulance in the Age of Narcan by soulofmischief on Sunday September 08, 2019 @02:50AM (#20909009)
They aren't, but some scumbags are. They only need to find out who to call.