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Re:Software made me loathe my car by whalesalad on Thursday August 29, 2019 @04:13PM (#20833161)
Carplay is definitely non-negotiable.

Car companies are NOT in the business of building infotainment systems. They are in the business of building cars. A while back, to compete and differentiate themselves, they all started to build their own touch screen systems with their own custom interfaces. All of them sucked. Even the ones that were the best of their class still sucked. Not only that, every single interface was different. Going from car-to-car meant re-learning a new system. They all have limited resources to throw at this problem so everything is sub-par. It's like going to McDonalds for good coffee -- no, you go to a coffee shop if you want good coffee. McDonalds just provides coffee because they have to. Same is true for car manufacturers.

Trusting the OEM is just a bad idea. It is better for everyone involved to give this responsibility to those who are good at it. Apple and Google both have huge ecosystems of accessories and application developers -- not to mention massive user bases. Apple and Google have entire teams dedicated to integrating with auto makers and ensuring that the experience is consistent across all vehicles.

So why would you want to pay thousands of dollars more to get, for example, a navigation experience on your car that sucks balls? Instead you can plug in your smartphone – which some have arguably more computing power than a lot of commodity PC's sold in the last few years – and have a vastly superior experience.

Re:Software made me loathe my car by youeseh on Thursday August 29, 2019 @04:33PM (#20833369)
Too bad none of them differentiated themselves by not putting anything.

I'd love to buy a luxury car that lets me hook up my iPad for all infotainment and GPS. Just give me a nice simple dock that looks good with the rest of the fit and finish.

Re:Software made me loathe my car by underwater on Thursday August 29, 2019 @11:13PM (#20835684)
An iPad is not going to survive in a parked car in the hot sun. Supposedly that's the reason that Tesla's have the "dog mode" aka "Cabin Overheat Protection". Their cars will cool themselves down to prevent the big touchscreens from being destroyed by high temperatures.
Re:Software made me loathe my car by cr0sh on Friday August 30, 2019 @12:07PM (#20839893)
Strange - one of my former supervisors had modded his truck's center console to use a Android tablet of some sort (don't recall which one, but it was fairly high-end - maybe one of the Samsungs) - it was basically "built-in" and non-removable; in fact, if you didn't know, you'd believe that it was OEM (it was a very clean install he'd done).

I'm in Phoenix, Arizona - and even in the middle of summer, with the sun beating down and turning the inside of every vehicle into an impromptu slow cooker (seriously - you can slow-cook in your car here in Arizona; that is, if you don't mind your car smelling like a working kitchen afterward), the LCD never had any problems that I could see.

I was honestly very surprised, as LCDs are normally very temperature sensitive (more to cold than to heat - but I would think that the temperatures inside a car in the summertime would be hot enough to cause problems). Usually, though, whatever the temperature - if the LCD has problems, once it comes back within it's normal range it will start working properly again.

Re:Software made me loathe my car by kalleboo on Friday August 30, 2019 @05:47AM (#20837119)
Article about Tesla's struggle with industrial grade vs automotive grade with their displays: https://www.thedrive.com/tech/27989/teslas-screen-saga-shows...
Re:Software made me loathe my car by vsl on Saturday August 31, 2019 @05:11AM (#20845331)
Wherever that “supposed” claim comes from is BS. They have the dog mode to prevent dogs from cooking, and you explicitly enable it when leaving a dog in the car. Hence the name.
Re:Software made me loathe my car by ktaube on Friday August 30, 2019 @03:45AM (#20836618)
That, and they would probably be stolen.
Re:Software made me loathe my car by whalesalad on Thursday August 29, 2019 @04:35PM (#20833401)
That's also a killer idea. A lot of people do this in the aftermarket world, but it would be unreasonable to expect you to "BYOD" for basic infotainment purposes. There needs to be _soemthing_ there for the people who don't have devices, or just need to make a quick run to the store and don't want to grab their ipad and dock it etc...
Re:Software made me loathe my car by ianferrel on Thursday August 29, 2019 @05:24PM (#20833844)
I bet they could just throw in an iPad cheaper than whatever it costs them to build their terrible custom solution.
Re:Software made me loathe my car by pkaye on Thursday August 29, 2019 @05:49PM (#20834043)
It doesn't cost them much. They just mark up the feature when they sell the car because they can.
Re:Software made me loathe my car by closetohome on Friday August 30, 2019 @01:14PM (#20840490)
That was the especially galling part about all these OEM infotainment systems -- they were charging like $1200 for the equivalent functionality of a Kindle Fire.
Re:Software made me loathe my car by RandallBrown on Thursday August 29, 2019 @06:02PM (#20834156)
My 2011 Subaru Forester's "infotainment" is a TomTom GPS with a few extra hooks into the cars radio. It's absolute trash, but you can remove the GPS entirely and the radio/CD player/AUX still works with a small button only interface.

I've dreamed about being able to dock my phone in place of that shitty GPS.

Re:Software made me loathe my car by o-__-o on Thursday August 29, 2019 @06:30PM (#20834357)
Re:Software made me loathe my car by stef25 on Friday August 30, 2019 @06:49AM (#20837388)
I think Toyota have docking stations as option on some of their cars, but only for rear passengers. Attached to the back of the front seats, for kids to watch stuff on a tablet.
Re:Software made me loathe my car by o-__-o on Thursday August 29, 2019 @06:31PM (#20834365)
google for 'carname' + "tesla style stereo"

get one before tariffs kick in. you're welcome.

Re:Software made me loathe my car by novok on Thursday August 29, 2019 @06:12PM (#20834230)
That's called a 2 din car stereo slot :D
Re:Software made me loathe my car by youeseh on Thursday August 29, 2019 @07:23PM (#20834652)
Yup. Easily found in economy vehicles but not often in luxury cars.
Re:Software made me loathe my car by jiqiren on Thursday August 29, 2019 @10:45PM (#20835571)
Porsche CarPlay is fantastic.
Re:Software made me loathe my car by stochastic_monk on Friday August 30, 2019 @12:42AM (#20836023)
I think it’s partially for maintenance/surveillance, depending on your degree of skepticism.

Alternatively, the more bloat they cram into the machines, the more they can charge.

I’d love a car that was just a car, a set of speakers, and A/C.

Re:Software made me loathe my car by cr0sh on Friday August 30, 2019 @12:21PM (#20840033)
> I’d love a car that was just a car, a set of speakers, and A/C.

My 2004 TJ is pretty much that - it's dash is reminiscent of the basic dash I had in my old 94 Ranger.

In an original Wrangler (ie - pre-JK, 2 door), the dash is pretty "small" - there isn't a lot of room between its front and the firewall - so while it seems like a lot is crammed in there, it also makes fishing wires and such fairly easy (coupled with the bareness of the interior - custom wiring is a dream - just lay it down and zip-tie it to the rollbar in most cases).

The "center console" area is almost designed to be modded, and plenty of people have done it. But if you want to keep it stock, it is pretty bare-bones. You can even get it with a cigarette lighter -and- a DC power outlet (I should also note that one mod that I've seen was kinda neat - stowing a small inverter behind the passenger speaker area with the "plug" mounted nearby on the side or underneath the dash area).

The downside is that it isn't a new vehicle - but I have the "bulletproof" 4.0 I6 - so even with it's mileage, I'm not worried. There's also the fact that the interior is...spartan (and the body isn't designed to protect you in an accident - not a big deal, as usually most cars that get into accidents with Wranglers disintegrate, while the Wrangler is usually drivable - might have to take a hammer to some parts first). Despite it being basic, though, the AC works incredibly well here in Phoenix!

Oh - and terrible gas mileage - there's that - though having a lift, 33" ATs, and a rear tire carrier don't help either (I've heard that you can get up to 16 mpg with a TJ on stock tires and no lift - but I ain't changing mine - I'm fine with 12 mpg - smiles per gallon, man).

But...but...if you can live with all that...you too can own a wallet that cries itself to sleep every night.

Re:Software made me loathe my car by twblalock on Thursday August 29, 2019 @08:14PM (#20834878)
The other problem is, even if the car comes with a good screen experience the manufacturer probably won't update it. (Tesla is good about this but a lot aren't.)

A friend of mine had an early-2000s Mercedes S-class. It was a very expensive car when it was new and still an amazing car in almost all respects -- except for the completely outdated, ugly DVD-based navigation system. He used a dashboard mount for his smartphone instead.

Even luxury cars made less than 10 years ago have screen software that feels very outdated compared to what a new Honda Civic comes with. The cars still drive great, but a significant part of the way you interact with them is obsolete.

I hope both Carplay and Android Auto continue to get regular updates and don't break backward compatibility, so a car that comes with one of those systems today won't feel obsolete in 5 years.

Re:Software made me loathe my car by gregmac on Thursday August 29, 2019 @11:36PM (#20835794)
Cars have the same problem many other "smart" products have such as TVs and refrigerators: the technology lifecycle is significantly faster than the overall objects lifecycle.

It's not unreasonable to expect a fridge or TV to last 10 or 15 years. Yet, if it's "smart", and had a top-of-the-line processor put in it 10 years ago, today it would be equivalent to running an iPhone 3G. More likely, it was in development for a couple years, and was based on a cheaper/lower-end/older processor.

Cars have the same problem, but with the non-tech part being 5 digits $$$ instead of 3 or 4.

I think part of the problem is the manufacturers would rather you replace the entire thing (because the processor is outdated). Someone buying a new fridge every 3 years (instead of every 10-15) because theirs won't run the latest apps is great for them.

With cars, Android Auto and CarPlay have so far saved consumers from that nightmare.

Re:Software made me loathe my car by csomar on Thursday August 29, 2019 @06:56PM (#20834515)
> All of them sucked.

I have a Mazda 3 skyactiv which is not a luxury car. The infotainment system is rather very solid. It's very responsive. I almost never had a problem with Bluetooth and I never needed to use the touch screen because the buttons UX is good enough.

Comparing to the other crap I've seen in the same category cars, I'd say the Japanese pulled a hell of a job.

Re:Software made me loathe my car by neogodless on Thursday August 29, 2019 @07:14PM (#20834609)
Which year? My 2015 Mazda 3 Grand Touring has a kind of slow system. Boots slowly and a bit inconsistently. I've had lots of problems with Bluetooth (with three different phones, 2 Nexus and a Pixel), and often have to hold 3 buttons in to reboot the software. I've also had it black screen and reboot on its own. That being said, I used Mazda AIO Tweaks software to install Android Auto, and it's largely reliable. It does stutter when switching between music and navigation, and the music even stutters while turning if maps are on... but for the daily commute, it works fine.
Re:Software made me loathe my car by sizzle on Thursday August 29, 2019 @11:23PM (#20835727)
I have the same model and if I start the car and walk away with my phone, good luck getting Bluetooth to reconnect thereafter. Have to shut the car down for it to reconnect with the phone. Other than that, everything else is excellent UX wise even the navigation, however it's outdated so phone mount + Waze works great.
Re:Software made me loathe my car by csomar on Friday August 30, 2019 @05:20AM (#20836991)
Hmm. I never started the car and walked away with my phone. Can't think of a situation where I need to do that. But then my phone is big and doesn't fit in my pocket.
Re:Software made me loathe my car by itsamoreh on Thursday August 29, 2019 @09:34PM (#20835275)
I've also got a 2015 Mazda 3 GT and I absolutely love the system. It boots quickly and works really well. I got the CarPlay upgrade done though. Everyone that gets in thinks my car is brand new.
Re:Software made me loathe my car by neogodless on Thursday August 29, 2019 @10:12PM (#20835441)
Is that a Mazda installed system? Do you know what version software you have? I know with mine, I had one of the last versions where a Mazda AIO Tweak install was easy. (Later they make it harder.) So maybe there were some improvements made to the official Mazda software in later versions.
Re:Software made me loathe my car by sizzle on Thursday August 29, 2019 @11:25PM (#20835732)
Would also like to know if car play upgrade is possible, I'd love to buy the parts and do it myself.
Re:Software made me loathe my car by csomar on Friday August 30, 2019 @05:18AM (#20836986)
I bought it in 2018.
Re:Software made me loathe my car by judge2020 on Thursday August 29, 2019 @07:33PM (#20834710)
the only problem with my 2019 Mazda cx-5 system is that the maps are stuck in 2008. It works, but you still have to go through many levels of menus to search and find destinations. Thankfully it supports carplay.
Re:Software made me loathe my car by mlindner on Thursday August 29, 2019 @05:19PM (#20833795)
Every company other than Tesla. Their infotainment + driver assist system is quite good.
Re:Software made me loathe my car by trca on Thursday August 29, 2019 @06:01PM (#20834151)
Agreed. I'm happy that my Tesla doesn't have CarPlay. I don't need my messages showing up on screen or constantly being read to me, I use driving time to decompress after a day of being social with my coworkers.
Re:Software made me loathe my car by dpkonofa on Thursday August 29, 2019 @06:32PM (#20834372)
I would gladly take CarPlay in my Tesla over the current system. Slacker is fine but it's not great and I prefer my preferences over those that Tesla chooses. On top of that, I have my phone set to DnD while Driving and that would extend to CarPlay also so my messages wouldn't pop up or bother me.
Re:Software made me loathe my car by brianpan on Friday August 30, 2019 @12:20AM (#20835946)
Agreed. I've driven a Bolt with CarPlay and it's better than my Model 3. Tesla's Siri (or any mic input) is ridiculously slow. They're both Google Maps but my phone already knows my locations. Other apps (like podcast app) as others have said is great.
Re:Software made me loathe my car by whalesalad on Thursday August 29, 2019 @06:13PM (#20834233)
Will a Tesla sync w/ your calendar so that when you get in it to drive to an appointment, it already knows where to take you?

For the record I also use my driving time solely for the purpose of driving. CarPlay doesn’t have to mean annoying interruptions.

Re:Software made me loathe my car by willglynn on Thursday August 29, 2019 @06:30PM (#20834359)
Yep. The car has a calendar app which can be configured to pop up on entry. Calendar sync is handled through the Tesla app on your phone, which also acts a share destination for locations (automatically entering the location in the nav system) and other such conveniences.
Re:Software made me loathe my car by novok on Thursday August 29, 2019 @06:14PM (#20834239)
You can turn on do not disturb if you don't want messages or notifications, you can even make it automatic as part of driving. AND you can get map navigation that isn't in a phone.
Re:Software made me loathe my car by Bud on Thursday August 29, 2019 @07:26PM (#20834671)
No. Every company including Tesla.

Tesla's system might be good right now, but they're unstable fiscally as a company and they have NO incentive to be excellent in designing software and maintaining old software far into the future. And Tesla might go belly-up, at which point their ability to maintain said software declines to zero.

Re:Software made me loathe my car by natch on Friday August 30, 2019 @01:11AM (#20836100)
https://i.redd.it/7k32bhp9jgj31.png

Look at that sales trend line. Rocket ship. They aren’t going belly up any time soon.

Re:Software made me loathe my car by marcyb5st on Friday August 30, 2019 @07:09AM (#20837468)
Not related to cars, but your comment is exactly what I recently thought about infotainment systems on long haul flights. Annoying, sluggish to the point I don't want to navigate the menu since the response time is in order of seconds, and the UX is terrible in most of those interfaces. Furthermore, the content is randomly added (oh, you like Big Bang theory, here's episode 7 and 12 of the 4th series, and 1 and 10 of the 7th).

I don't know if these systems are outsourced or built in house by the airlines, but they make my blood boil every time. Especially considering that airlines pay the plane 100+ M$ but they save money on putting crappy Android tablets with a bloated software on it...

Re:Software made me loathe my car by closetohome on Friday August 30, 2019 @01:17PM (#20840519)
Like a lot of specialty industries, anything that goes on a plane requires a boatload of certifications and tests. Most consumer electronics companies aren't set up to run that gauntlet, so it falls to companies created specifically to do so. Naturally they tend to be lacking in traditional areas like software quality because they don't have the resources to attend to it.