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Re:Ethiopia Plants 350M Trees in One Day to Combat Drought a... by lmilcin on Tuesday July 30, 2019 @05:11AM (#20563227)
Not to discourage, but even reforesting entire land that could possibly be covered in forest will not arrest climate change noticeably.

The reason is because forest do not change CO2 levels noticeably, in the long run. The reason is because there is roughly constant amount of carbon in Earths biomass. Planting treas only increases the amonut of biomass by a little bit but has no lasting effect of scrubbing CO2 from atmosphere.

The real solution to climate change is undoing decades of constant addition of CO2 to atmosphere. This requires not only scrubbing CO2 from atmosphere but also sequestering the carbon somehow which means preventing it getting back to carbon cycle.

If you really wanted to make planting trees have an effect you would not only need to plant trees, you would need to regularly cut them (before they burn) and store them somewhere, maybe at the bottom of ocean, from where it will not be released (decomposed, burned, etc.)

Of course, planting trees have other beneficial effects like helping to keep rainwater. It is just important to make sure right kinds of trees (and large variety of them!) are planted to not repeat mistakes that were made in other places.

Re:Ethiopia Plants 350M Trees in One Day to Combat Drought a... by luesterklemme on Tuesday July 30, 2019 @05:29AM (#20563291)
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jul/04/planting...

ETH Zürich seems to disagree with that statement.

Re:Ethiopia Plants 350M Trees in One Day to Combat Drought a... by lmilcin on Tuesday July 30, 2019 @06:06AM (#20563427)
Well, humanity uses around 15 billion tonnes of coal and oil and gas every year. At that speed, in just 30 years, we add as much carbon to the atmosphere as entire biomass of Earth.
Re:Ethiopia Plants 350M Trees in One Day to Combat Drought a... by lmilcin on Thursday August 01, 2019 @09:56AM (#20583697)
Re:Ethiopia Plants 350M Trees in One Day to Combat Drought a... by Maximus9000 on Tuesday July 30, 2019 @08:43AM (#20564275)
> "The reason is because forest do not change CO2 levels noticeably, in the long run"

What does "in the long run" mean? Will it suck up carbon for the first 20 years while the tree is growing? 20 years would of borrowed time would be quite useful.

Re:Ethiopia Plants 350M Trees in One Day to Combat Drought a... by abraae on Tuesday July 30, 2019 @05:31AM (#20563300)
Timber buildings, furniture are possible targets for medium term sequestration of co2 via timber.

More offbeat approaches might include modern giant pyramids built of timber, perhaps in the Australian outback. As long as they could be secured from fire and decay.

Re:Ethiopia Plants 350M Trees in One Day to Combat Drought a... by ehnto on Tuesday July 30, 2019 @06:32AM (#20563524)
It would catch fire in the Australian outback. Dry, hot, windy thunderstorms would see to that! We have tonnes of natural wildfires, and some are still started by aboriginal tribes as part of their nomadic way of life and spiritual beliefs. It wouldn't last.

Just throw it into the empty mining pits instead.

Re:Ethiopia Plants 350M Trees in One Day to Combat Drought a... by ido on Tuesday July 30, 2019 @06:47AM (#20563601)
Dump them in the poles then.
Re:Ethiopia Plants 350M Trees in One Day to Combat Drought a... by ryanmercer on Tuesday July 30, 2019 @08:47AM (#20564301)
In June and July wildfires have been tearing through the arctic destroying insane amounts of forest. Go stack it on the poles and as the temps continue to warm it'll just do the same eventually.
Re:Ethiopia Plants 350M Trees in One Day to Combat Drought a... by yreg on Tuesday July 30, 2019 @09:46AM (#20564781)
And cross-laminated timber could let us use wood even for bigger construction projects like skyscrapers and bridges.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-laminated_timber

Re:Ethiopia Plants 350M Trees in One Day to Combat Drought a... by notfromhere on Tuesday July 30, 2019 @10:26AM (#20565080)
wooden skyscrapers seem like good candidates for devastating fires
Re:Ethiopia Plants 350M Trees in One Day to Combat Drought a... by yreg on Tuesday July 30, 2019 @10:52AM (#20565319)
I'm no expert, but from what I heard CLT can achieve fire resistance similar to concrete. (Measured in minutes it can withstand a particular heat.)

These sources are far from unbiased, but nevertheless:

http://www.greenspec.co.uk/building-design/crosslam-timber-f...

https://www.woodworks.org/wp-content/uploads/presentation_sl...

Re:Ethiopia Plants 350M Trees in One Day to Combat Drought a... by bayesian_horse on Tuesday July 30, 2019 @05:36AM (#20563319)
Maybe it's easier to let them rot in place like it worked in the rainforests for millions of years?
Re:Ethiopia Plants 350M Trees in One Day to Combat Drought a... by zkomp on Tuesday July 30, 2019 @06:05AM (#20563421)
Look up terra preta, regular wood would just decompose and release the carbon back. You have to make charcoal out of it to be able to sequester carbon in the longer term (thousands of years)
Re:Ethiopia Plants 350M Trees in One Day to Combat Drought a... by abraae on Tuesday July 30, 2019 @05:57AM (#20563382)
Rotting releases their co2.

All good when things are in balance - but they're not.

To sequester the c02, you need to prevent rot.

Re:Ethiopia Plants 350M Trees in One Day to Combat Drought a... by delecti on Tuesday July 30, 2019 @09:51AM (#20564817)
If you cut down the trees and sequester the carbon elsewhere, you can sequester more, but just establishing new forests all over would still increase the amount of carbon cycling in those local ecosystems, and get it out of the atmosphere. Both is probably best.
Re:Ethiopia Plants 350M Trees in One Day to Combat Drought a... by chimprich on Tuesday July 30, 2019 @10:08AM (#20564952)
I don't have any figures, but on the assumption that few processes are 100% efficient I'd guess you wouldn't get complete decomposition before the fallen tree is buried. You'd probably get a reasonable, if inefficient, removal of carbon from the atmosphere. Probably better than nothing if you couldn't figure out a way of using the wood more effectively.
Re:Ethiopia Plants 350M Trees in One Day to Combat Drought a... by bayesian_horse on Tuesday July 30, 2019 @07:59AM (#20564012)
Hm, as far as I remember that was the way CO2 was turned into fossil fuel, depositing layers over layers of vegetation...
Re:Ethiopia Plants 350M Trees in One Day to Combat Drought a... by tcbawo on Tuesday July 30, 2019 @08:12AM (#20564082)
I believe that accumulation happened before microorganisms had evolved to digest cellulose (?). If we can ever produce a surplus of electricity, we would ideally sequester carbon in a place other than the bottom of the ocean, creating a giant Earth-battery. Although it would be ironic if "carbon sequestration" meant heaping plastic in landfills.
Re:Ethiopia Plants 350M Trees in One Day to Combat Drought a... by quickthrower2 on Tuesday July 30, 2019 @08:15AM (#20564101)
Probably a really bad idea but what about chemical treatment to prevent rot.
Re:Ethiopia Plants 350M Trees in One Day to Combat Drought a... by bayesian_horse on Tuesday July 30, 2019 @09:22AM (#20564561)
That would negate the advantage of not requiring extra effort/energy. And decomposition of organic material is required for the rainforest ecosystem to work.

And I'd go with radiation or heating for sterilization.

Re:Ethiopia Plants 350M Trees in One Day to Combat Drought a... by orwin on Tuesday July 30, 2019 @12:49PM (#20566657)
or you know, maybe just using the new "easy" tech of lignin removel through oxidation. But you're right, we can't excessively clean the forest of organic "waste".
Re:Ethiopia Plants 350M Trees in One Day to Combat Drought a... by zkomp on Tuesday July 30, 2019 @06:03AM (#20563408)
Letting trees grow and sucking up co2, and then making them into charcoal/biochar, putting that into the soil is one simple way to do it.

Even if not done, still think a living forest has to be much better than a plain or desert.

Re:Ethiopia Plants 350M Trees in One Day to Combat Drought a... by bayesian_horse on Tuesday July 30, 2019 @05:34AM (#20563315)
I think this initiative was aimed at soil erosion and moisture retention...
Re:Ethiopia Plants 350M Trees in One Day to Combat Drought a... by lmilcin on Tuesday July 30, 2019 @06:03AM (#20563409)
Planting trees definitely does not hurt and as you say, prevents soil erosion and helps keep ground water which is going to be more and more important as we go. Just don't think this will magically revert global warming, this would be dangerous attitude.
Re:Ethiopia Plants 350M Trees in One Day to Combat Drought a... by onetimemanytime on Tuesday July 30, 2019 @08:04AM (#20564037)
>>Just don't think this will magically revert global warming, this would be dangerous attitude.

Maybe but it's relatively cheap, and it can't hurt so why not?

Re:Ethiopia Plants 350M Trees in One Day to Combat Drought a... by pbhjpbhj on Tuesday July 30, 2019 @09:18AM (#20564524)
Waste of time, money, and resources. Appearance of fixing a problem without doing so reduces motivation to actually fix it. Global support might wane because "they fixed it".

Seems like there are many reasons not to do a fix unless you know it works to some reasonable extent.

Re:Ethiopia Plants 350M Trees in One Day to Combat Drought a... by bayesian_horse on Tuesday July 30, 2019 @09:23AM (#20564571)
Again, the issue they want to address is not climate change but retention of soil and improving their regional climate and water cycle.
Re:Ethiopia Plants 350M Trees in One Day to Combat Drought a... by neltnerb on Tuesday July 30, 2019 @09:37AM (#20564684)
And it doesn't hurt that it probably slightly improves global warming and planting trees isn't very costly. Especially in places where labor is inexpensive.

Why would they not do this is often a question I've been left with after talking to climate change nihilists. No, it won't fix global warming. But it doesn't cost very much, helps their population and economy, and makes a dent in global warming.

At least they're not turning off perfectly functional nuclear power plants like in so-sophisticated Germany. They're reforesting. Do what you can and try not to make things worse.

Re:Ethiopia Plants 350M Trees in One Day to Combat Drought a... by saalweachter on Tuesday July 30, 2019 @09:54AM (#20564851)
As software developer, you should also be comfortable with the concept that there is no silver bullet[0] and sometimes you just have to use a lot of lead bullets.[1]

[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Silver_Bullet [1] https://a16z.com/2011/11/13/lead-bullets/

Re:Ethiopia Plants 350M Trees in One Day to Combat Drought a... by bayesian_horse on Wednesday July 31, 2019 @02:31AM (#20572129)
Those perfectly functional nuclear power plants have a tendency to blow up a lot more often than predicted. After a couple of theoretically impossible accidents people get a bit nervous.

And they produce perfectly radioactive nuclear waste nobody knows what to do with right now...

Re:Ethiopia Plants 350M Trees in One Day to Combat Drought a... by pbhjpbhj on Tuesday July 30, 2019 @11:09AM (#20565513)
Yes, I assumed it was primarily erosion they're aiming to combat in a few years when the trees have decent root systems and enough foliage to provide wind-shelter.

Did I say something to the contrary?

Re:Ethiopia Plants 350M Trees in One Day to Combat Drought a... by soperj on Tuesday July 30, 2019 @09:40AM (#20564718)
You've basically saying mass deforestation isn't a big deal.
Re:Ethiopia Plants 350M Trees in One Day to Combat Drought a... by lmilcin on Wednesday July 31, 2019 @04:12AM (#20572520)
Please, try to read with comprehension.

Deforestation is definitely a big deal. We need to preserve nature's diversity and forests are extremely important part of that.

What I meant is to warn people against thinking that if we start planting trees en masse then we have somehow on the right track to solve the problem. We are not.

Re:Ethiopia Plants 350M Trees in One Day to Combat Drought a... by ginko on Tuesday July 30, 2019 @05:59AM (#20563392)
Carbon sequestration via wood burial[1]

[1] https://cbmjournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1750-0...

Re:Ethiopia Plants 350M Trees in One Day to Combat Drought a... by ryanmercer on Tuesday July 30, 2019 @08:45AM (#20564285)
It's better to just use it for sustainable construction, where you are locking it up for decades in a structure.
Re:Ethiopia Plants 350M Trees in One Day to Combat Drought a... by ginko on Tuesday July 30, 2019 @10:16AM (#20565008)
I guess another option would be to shred the wood and dump it in wasteland to compost it. Considering we have a huge problem with soil erosion, this might be a viable way to regain some of it.

There was this experiment with just dumping 12000 tonnes of orange peel a while ago that turned out to be a huge success: https://www.sciencealert.com/how-12-000-tonnes-of-dumped-ora...

Maybe something like this can also work with wood, although it might take a bit longer to compost.

Re:Ethiopia Plants 350M Trees in One Day to Combat Drought a... by ryanmercer on Wednesday July 31, 2019 @02:11PM (#20576781)
Hmmm, this makes me wonder how much of the carbon petrified wood retains and if there isn't some method where the process might be accelerated (without a lot of energy input, a quick google shows you can do it rapidly using a heated chamber but that's going to be counterproductive and require an absurd amount of energy).

Although, maybe you could use concentrated solar or even geothermal for the heating part. Hell, you could probably make it profitable selling the petrified wood for use in construction (mantles, counter tops, tile). If it retains a decent amount of the carbon.

Re:Ethiopia Plants 350M Trees in One Day to Combat Drought a... by orliesaurus on Tuesday July 30, 2019 @09:41AM (#20564736)
This seems like a really well thought out reply: any books on climate change and the way the world is changing that you recommend on this subject ?
Re:Ethiopia Plants 350M Trees in One Day to Combat Drought a... by chimprich on Tuesday July 30, 2019 @09:59AM (#20564898)
Not the OP, but for a scientific approach to dealing with climate change, this book is excellent (also available to read online):

https://www.withouthotair.com/

It's a little out of date on things like the advances made in renewables, but still very good. Also very readable.