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Re:What Happened with West Virginia’s Blockchain Voting Expe... by mobilefriendly on Monday July 29, 2019 @10:17AM (#20554822)
I live in West Virginia and anything dealing with the state government has to start with an assumption that it is being done for corrupt reasons. Ask first how a contract or project financially benefits key state officials or their family. I can't emphasize enough how predatory and corrupt the government is here. Both leading Republican candidates for governor are under federal corruption investigations. There's a reason West Virginia is losing population and remains among the poorest states in the USA. Where West Virginia isn't corrupt, it is incompetent. The state can't even provide safe drinking water for its people, or even create a framework for official electronic signatures-- it has no business innovating in voting tech. West Virginia is the last place you want as your laboratory for voting technology.
Re:What Happened with West Virginia’s Blockchain Voting Expe... by PopeDotNinja on Monday July 29, 2019 @11:20AM (#20555471)
I will say that your state is beautiful though. Driving from Harper's Ferry to Charleston via the Monogahela National Forest remains one of my trips. My favorite memory was discovering a 13,000 square mile radio quiet zone with a gigantic, black hole hunting, radio telescope smack dab in the middle of it.

After stopping to play tourist, I continued driving and stumbled upon a stranded 3 person group, a hetero couple and the wife's sister, the and that probably weighed 1500 pounds between the 3 of them (no judgements). Their minivan was out of commission, and there was no cellphone reception cuz quiet zone. I offered to help, but I could physically only fit one of them in my Ford Focus hatchback, which could normally fit up to 5 people (uncomfortably). Husband asked if I could get him to Durbin, about 30 minutes down the road, and I said yes. All 500 pounds of him squeezed into the front seat, which itself was an adventure because I am 6'5" and was a heftier 300 pounds myself, and he was spilling a bit into the driver's seat. I was basically squished between the car door and a human wall.

I loved every minute of it. Husband was an awesome dude. We chatted about his career bas a coal miner (complete with a mild case of black lung disease and pending heart failure), life in a sleepy area, and all sorts of stuff. When we got to Durbin, he just asked me to let him own, where he planned to find a phone to call his preacher, who also happened to be the "local" tow truck driver. He walked/waddled off towards some buildings off the main road, and I continued my journey.

Re:What Happened with West Virginia’s Blockchain Voting Expe... by infecto on Monday July 29, 2019 @02:28PM (#20557734)
Such a strange way to be a little condescending but also not.
Re:What Happened with West Virginia’s Blockchain Voting Expe... by matty22 on Monday July 29, 2019 @11:09AM (#20555338)
Also a West Virginian, my favorite is when our entire supreme court were impeached at the same time: https://www.npr.org/2018/08/08/636761241/west-virginia-house...
Re:What Happened with West Virginia’s Blockchain Voting Expe... by Ill_ban_myself on Monday July 29, 2019 @04:01PM (#20558737)
And in this corner we have the national heavyweight champion, 8 time governor sent to prison CHI-TOWN!
Re:What Happened with West Virginia’s Blockchain Voting Expe... by lallysingh on Monday July 29, 2019 @12:15PM (#20556166)
I have some family in WV (it's absolutely gorgeous) and the government is always fun conversation!
Re:What Happened with West Virginia’s Blockchain Voting Expe... by sdinsn on Monday July 29, 2019 @11:16AM (#20555429)
Note that West Virginia did not pay for anything. The project was paid for by a rich guy [1], Bradley Tusk.

[1] https://statescoop.com/meet-the-guy-paying-for-west-virginia...

Re:What Happened with West Virginia’s Blockchain Voting Expe... by nemacol on Monday July 29, 2019 @01:58PM (#20557388)
WV resident here. (Northern Panhandle)

Anyone interesting some history of coal country, a great book is "Night Comes to the Cumberlands: A Biography of a Depressed Area" By Harry M. Caudill. Published 1962.

https://www.amazon.com/Night-Comes-Cumberlands-Biography-Dep...

https://archive.org/stream/nightcomestocumb1963caud/nightcom...

While the focus of the book is eastern Kentucky, a lot of the content applies to WV and coal country in general.

"At the time it was written, Night Comes to the Cumberlands framed an urgent appeal to the American Conscience. Today it details Appalachia's difficult past, and at the same time, presents an accurate historical backdrop for a contemporary understanding of the Appalachian region."

Re:What Happened with West Virginia’s Blockchain Voting Expe... by elwell on Monday July 29, 2019 @11:30AM (#20555596)
> West Virginia is the last place you want as your laboratory for voting technology.

Blockchain's shining strength is transparency, so if done somewhat properly, a corrupt government could be the perfect test ground.

Re:What Happened with West Virginia’s Blockchain Voting Expe... by nwah1 on Monday July 29, 2019 @12:41PM (#20556513)
> When asked about why a redacted audit or report from the auditors wasn’t released, Voatz co-founder and CEO Nimit Sawhney, who co-authored the white paper, gave multiple reasons. First, he pointed to a nondisclosure agreement with the auditors. Then, he stated that there was no way to share any more information about the audit without revealing proprietary information about the system. But one would expect a redacted report or even an abstract of the report for transparency’s sake, given the stakes of introducing a new system to our already rickety voting process. Depending on the secrecy of its system architecture is such a poor security mechanism that researchers have even coined a term for it: security by obscurity.
Re:What Happened with West Virginia’s Blockchain Voting Expe... by nwah1 on Monday July 29, 2019 @12:43PM (#20556530)
A private blockchain hosted only by a trusted party has absolutely zero purpose, even in theory. This whole experiment is a scam.
Re:What Happened with West Virginia’s Blockchain Voting Expe... by i_am_nomad on Monday July 29, 2019 @03:58PM (#20558711)
This is the same principle behind Nebula Genomics, and it’s surprising more people aren’t calling bullshit on it.
Re:What Happened with West Virginia’s Blockchain Voting Expe... by trakout on Monday July 29, 2019 @09:13PM (#20561194)
In the context of nascent tech like this, most people just don't know the right questions to ask, unfortunately.

Perhaps in the near future we will be treated to a layman's explanation of the prevalent (and corrupt) usage of federated blockchains, 'exposed' in a Netflix doc. :)

Re:What Happened with West Virginia’s Blockchain Voting Expe... by skrebbel on Monday July 29, 2019 @12:37PM (#20556458)
I love your comment because I can't tell whether it's serious or an extremely well played HN parody.
Re:What Happened with West Virginia’s Blockchain Voting Expe... by diveloper on Monday July 29, 2019 @11:47AM (#20555799)
Dang, I just moved to WV for a software dev internship for the summer. Is it okay to drink the water in Charleston?
Re:What Happened with West Virginia’s Blockchain Voting Expe... by bloopernova on Monday July 29, 2019 @12:06PM (#20556042)
get a reverse osmosis system. Or buy RO filtered water from the local grocery store by the 3 or 5 gallon jug.

Edited to add: our household does this. we live in a rented townhouse, so we're unable to add our own plumbing or electrical stuff. Yes, it's an expense to buy our own drinking/cooking water, but we just don't trust city water. If you live in a nice area with a diligent water authority, that's fine, but those types of places are a vanishing minority in the USA nowadays.

Re:What Happened with West Virginia’s Blockchain Voting Expe... by professorgerm on Monday July 29, 2019 @12:26PM (#20556302)
Yes. I assume they're referencing the chemical spill several years ago, and the water has tested clean consistently since.

I've never heard of other issues with the water quality in Charleston (assuming it's city water and not straight from the Kanawha), and I consider it some of the better-tasting municipal water in the Mid-Atlantic region.

Re:What Happened with West Virginia’s Blockchain Voting Expe... by dsr_ on Monday July 29, 2019 @11:51AM (#20555856)
Maybe? The annual water quality tests for chemical contamination look reasonable.

But a quick check of boil water orders (i.e. bacterial infestations) suggests that Massachusetts needs five or six a year, and West Virginia needs five or six a week. That could be sampling bias.

Re:What Happened with West Virginia’s Blockchain Voting Expe... by rootusrootus on Monday July 29, 2019 @03:25PM (#20558411)
My first thought was "fix or six a year? wow!" and then you got to West Virginia. That's terrible.
Re:What Happened with West Virginia’s Blockchain Voting Expe... by duxup on Monday July 29, 2019 @10:22AM (#20554880)
I suspect the incompetence is by design to some extent. If you like small government, cripple it and then you've got an excuse to limit its reach and continue to cut.
Re:What Happened with West Virginia’s Blockchain Voting Expe... by mobilefriendly on Monday July 29, 2019 @10:50AM (#20555162)
It isn't really small government culture-- both Republican candidates were very recently Democrats (the state has flipped parties). It is more a pervasive culture of natural resource extraction and disdain for the public's health and safety. Probably a function of the "resource curse". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resource_curse
Re:What Happened with West Virginia’s Blockchain Voting Expe... by no_wizard on Monday July 29, 2019 @01:38PM (#20557170)
What I find interesting after reading the linked wikipedia article is that the USA as a whole is not suffering from the resource curse. I wonder, just tangentially, because:

1. We are net exporters of many vital resources (food, in particular wheat and corn, is one I can think of off hand)

2. We have an abundance of natural resources and a wide variety of those natural resources to grow our economy

3. At various stages in history, we were basically the word's largest exporter of raw and manufactured goods and materials.

Yet, we aren't classified as having suffered through this.

Odd right? Or is my casual understanding just incorrect?

Re:What Happened with West Virginia’s Blockchain Voting Expe... by jackcosgrove on Monday July 29, 2019 @02:34PM (#20557796)
The resource curse occurs when there are abundant natural resources and a group of people small enough to coordinate action controls those resources.

In the eastern half of the USA, most of the land is owned by (relatively) small holders, who are too numerous to not compete against each other. That is slowly changing as consolidation continues to occur, but the base ownership of resources is so diffuse that there would still need to be a lot of consolidation for resource cartels to become dominant.

Besides winning the Civil War and outlawing slavery, the Lincoln administration also passed one of the most momentous series of laws in American economic history with the Homestead Acts, which sold almost 10% of the total area of the US for pennies as long as the land would be homesteaded, that is, occupied by someone who worked the land. This was a deliberate policy of the Free Soil movement to prevent moneyed interests, primarily plantation owners, from gobbling up the frontier.

In eastern places where large estates had already been assembled, such as Appalachian coal country and the Mississippi Delta, politics has been predictably corrupt and exploitative.

Where the frontier land was not homesteaded (mostly arid western lands), "land barons" gained control of much of it and began to manipulate local politics in a similarly predictable way.

The remaining western public lands also benefited from the notion of "scientific administration" in vogue during the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Some land agencies are worse than others (Parks service is a far better steward than the BLM, for example) but by and large the federal agencies have succeeded in preventing the formation of new land baronies.

Re:What Happened with West Virginia’s Blockchain Voting Expe... by Ericson2314 on Monday July 29, 2019 @02:00PM (#20557415)
> raw and manufactured

We were immensly helped by the world wars wiping out so much capital abroad. Even before that, the civil war while costing much life only jump-started our industrial capacity as the fighting was never that far north.

The resource curse is basically a mercantilist problem where the resources extracted are almost entirely exported, and little domestic industry outside of resource extraction.

Re:What Happened with West Virginia’s Blockchain Voting Expe... by thebeefytaco on Monday July 29, 2019 @08:11PM (#20560867)
I think those comments safely apply to any government project.
Re:What Happened with West Virginia’s Blockchain Voting Expe... by HillaryBriss on Monday July 29, 2019 @11:04AM (#20555303)
If it makes you feel any better, California is also failing to provide safe tap drinking water for everyone. In a few places, the wells are dry. In others the water is contaminated.
Re:What Happened with West Virginia’s Blockchain Voting Expe... by jedberg on Monday July 29, 2019 @11:31AM (#20555608)
That's not anywhere close to the same thing. In California, the cause of that is climate change, not corruption. The sources for the rural communities are drying up. Secondly, the state is sending bottled water to the people who don't have clean drinking water. And third, the Governor just last week signed an appropriations bill that will provide millions for clean water projects out of the funds that were allocated for "green enhancement programs" because they recognize that this is the fault of climate change.
Re:What Happened with West Virginia’s Blockchain Voting Expe... by solotronics on Monday July 29, 2019 @07:34PM (#20560625)
Climate Change is a funny way to say farmers are using all the water to irrigate what is naturally an arid desert.
Re:What Happened with West Virginia’s Blockchain Voting Expe... by HillaryBriss on Tuesday July 30, 2019 @01:19AM (#20562302)
Interestingly, that appropriation will take up to 130 million dollars a year for the next decade from a fund that was originally designed for something different: helping to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

The drinking water plan has alarmed some environmental groups, who worry it sets a precedent of the state using the cap and trade money for other purposes as the state struggles to meets its emission reduction goals.

https://www.newsobserver.com/news/article233066507.html

So, it sure looks like, in order to address certain water supply problems, which are admittedly exacerbated by global warming, California will diminish its own efforts to reduce greenhouse gas emissions!

Re:What Happened with West Virginia’s Blockchain Voting Expe... by HillaryBriss on Tuesday July 30, 2019 @01:08AM (#20562270)
California has been slow to address the problem.

Consider that the "... Central Valley has been sinking ... since the 1920s and is estimated to have sunk up to 28 feet. During drought years, the valley is prone to accelerated subsidence": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Valley_land_subsidence

As far back as 1988 there was scientific consensus that the earth was on a trajectory toward a doubling of CO2 levels and by 2001 the IPCC said "it was much more likely than not that our civilization faced severe global warming": https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/discovery-of-glob...

California's government has officially acknowledged global warming since at least 2006: https://ww3.arb.ca.gov/cc/ab32/ab32.htm

Also in 2006, the Union of Concerned Scientists noted that global warming would impact future water supply by reducing the Sierra Nevada snowpack: https://www.ucsusa.org/global_warming/science_and_impacts/im...

About 30 million Californians rely at least partially upon groundwater sources for their water, but the state didn't get around to regulating well drilling until 2014 with a relatively weak law that "does not go as far as other Western states by granting state agencies the power to authorize or prohibit groundwater withdrawals": https://www.kqed.org/science/21706/what-to-know-about-califo...

I predict that we'll keep seeing well failures in California and that government's actions will not be enough to reliably provide safe tap water to all of California's communities.

Re:What Happened with West Virginia’s Blockchain Voting Expe... by HillaryBriss on Monday July 29, 2019 @08:23PM (#20560946)
It's more than just global warming and I didn't say the cause was corruption (though I cannot rule that possibility out). I just said California did not provide clean tap water for everyone. Nevertheless, governmental failure of one kind or another is a huge and important reason for California's tap water problems.

The fact that there is government provided bottled water in some places should not be looked upon as good management or a success story. It's a bandaid on a broken system and a statewide failure to manage and provide safe water resources and infrastructure.

The the appropriations bill you mention does not make up for the years of failure to provide clean, contaminant free tap water on an equal basis to all communities statewide. And even if it succeeds across the state in every community, it will take years to actually fix all of the tap water problems.

Five days ago, The NY Times reported As many as 1,000 community water systems in California may be at high risk of failing to deliver potable water — one out of every three — according to a previously undisclosed estimate by senior officials at the California State Water Resources Control Board:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/24/us/the-crisis-lurking-in-...

The Guardian reports that some Central Valley communities have water contaminated by arsenic, It’s cruel to be living in a state that’s so powerful, so rich, but we can’t count on clean water...:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/jul/18/californ...

Maywood, a poor city in Los Angeles County, has had a multi-year contaminated tap water problem:

https://www.ioes.ucla.edu/project/assessing-groundwater-cont...

Re:What Happened with West Virginia’s Blockchain Voting Expe... by dsfyu404ed on Monday July 29, 2019 @11:24AM (#20555528)
>Ask first how a contract or project financially benefits key state officials or their family.

Typical flyover state simpletons. If they were were thinking long term like the enlightened people in the urban coastal states they would direct the proceeds of their corruption at their party. After doing this for a couple decades they can have a de-facto one party state and doll out government jobs and contracts to a much wider cross section than just their friends and family further cementing their party's (i.e. their professional network) grip on power.

(this is sarcasm, in case that isn't immediately obvious)