News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by scraplab on Saturday July 27, 2019 @03:04AM (#20540789)
I made a Twitter bot @lowflyingrocks, that tweets whenever something passes close enough to note. If you find Twitter doesn’t offer you enough existential dread already you might like it.

It scrapes the JPL data hourly, and it’s satisfying when it picks up these close passes discovered at short notice:

https://twitter.com/lowflyingrocks/status/115420008580852531...

Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by number6 on Saturday July 27, 2019 @04:47AM (#20541082)
Ok little pet peeve of mine:

Every other time I hit some arbitrary Twitter limits of a post and 5 minutes later I can access it.

At this point I believe it is to bully me into an account or using the app or something.

I have a bunch of profanities in reply to this.

Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by napsterbr on Saturday July 27, 2019 @09:51AM (#20542021)
Twitter for mobile (web) is filled with dark patterns like these. They do everything in their power to make you download their app, including limiting and/or sabotaging features that would obviously work on any web browser.

For example, you can see someone's tweets but you can't click on the mentions or media tabs. Search is downright unusable. Try searching for something and scrolling to the top to get the latest results.

I know I make no difference at all for the folks at Twitter, but they certainly lost me as a loyal user after witnessing such shady practices.

Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by jakeogh on Sunday July 28, 2019 @05:53PM (#20550028)
"We've detected that you are not willing to execute arbitrary code we hand you. Would you like to proceed to legacy Twitter?"

[Yes]

Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by hag on Saturday July 27, 2019 @06:12AM (#20541295)
I have the same issue on Chrome on Android and I always reload the page (not the Twitter reload button), which always seem to work for me. I don't know if they do this on purpose, but it does make you wonder. I do not want the Twitter-app on my phone.
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by enlyth on Saturday July 27, 2019 @06:29AM (#20541339)
Indeed, reloading the page seems to work for me. Seems like an intentional dark pattern to force people to register and download the app.
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by hansjorg on Saturday July 27, 2019 @05:23AM (#20541169)
Are you using Firefox on Android? Using that I almost always get the rate limit error. Never seen it otherwise.
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by JetSpiegel on Saturday July 27, 2019 @09:27AM (#20541931)
You can bypass this by using the 'Request Desktop Site' checkbox.

Ironically, requesting the desktop site uses more bandwidth, defeating the purpose of a rate limit.

Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by kekebo on Saturday July 27, 2019 @09:58AM (#20542052)
Resubmitting the url without the 'mobile' subdomain also works for me every time for some reason. Same setup setup with Firefox on Android. It's infuriating.
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by indalo on Saturday July 27, 2019 @05:34AM (#20541197)
woah, for real? I thought I must've done something real shady in the past but now that you mention it , I have the same exact issue. what gives?
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by majewsky on Saturday July 27, 2019 @08:49AM (#20541794)
Just a dark pattern to force people into using the app instead.
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by gpderetta on Saturday July 27, 2019 @06:13AM (#20541299)
I get the limit in Android with both Chrome and Firefox. All the time.
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by jdnenej on Saturday July 27, 2019 @07:24AM (#20541478)
Yeah I get the rate limited error every time. I think Twitter just marks anyone not using the app as a bot
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by codeulike on Saturday July 27, 2019 @04:12AM (#20540993)
what does '2019 OK' mean, is that the rock name?

It would be good if your bot attached some sort of 'oh shit' scale, based on size and closest approach

Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by Rexxar on Saturday July 27, 2019 @04:32AM (#20541054)
It seems to be a naming convention for provisional names (https://www.quora.com/How-are-asteroids-named)

2019 OK :

- "2019" => discovered in 2019

- O => discovered in 2nd half of july

- K => 10th object discovered in this period

Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by yummybear on Saturday July 27, 2019 @05:48AM (#20541229)
Why isn’t I in the second table?
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by brokencube on Saturday July 27, 2019 @05:58AM (#20541252)
Probably to prevent confusion with "1"
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by _0ffh on Saturday July 27, 2019 @09:54AM (#20542035)
Commonly it's to prevent confusion with "J". A confusion with a number when only letters are expected in that place is unlikely.
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by sova on Saturday July 27, 2019 @12:27PM (#20542729)
Il10ojJIi
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by radisb on Saturday July 27, 2019 @06:29AM (#20541338)
'2019' = present year, 'OK' = we didn't get wiped out
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by flancian on Saturday July 27, 2019 @07:51AM (#20541578)
This is great, thanks! Unsolicited advice: perhaps consider making the bot pin the tweet about the most interesting encounter of the last N days, for some definition. Likely something like the nearest miss.
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by Asmod4n on Saturday July 27, 2019 @09:25AM (#20541928)
There is no API for pins.
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by fyfy18 on Saturday July 27, 2019 @05:37AM (#20541202)
Does it handle the case when something doesn't miss?
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by scraplab on Saturday July 27, 2019 @11:29AM (#20542446)
No, but it's open source, so maybe future surviving generations can pick up that issue?

https://github.com/tomtaylor/lowflyingrocks

Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by lostlogin on Saturday July 27, 2019 @06:14AM (#20541301)
How would it bypass the fail whale?
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by fabiandesimone on Saturday July 27, 2019 @03:42AM (#20540893)
This is fantastic, thank you!
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by esquire_900 on Saturday July 27, 2019 @05:01AM (#20541114)
That is awesome, thank you!
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by mkl on Friday July 26, 2019 @10:29PM (#20540022)
This is actually really common for smaller ones:

2015: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_asteroid_close_approac...

2016: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_asteroid_close_approac...

2017: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_asteroid_close_approac...

2018: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_asteroid_close_approac...

All the ones coloured red in the tables (the majority) weren't discovered until after their closest approach.

Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by tunesmith on Friday July 26, 2019 @07:02PM (#20539100)
"More than 90 percent of those (extinction-level) asteroids, which are 1 kilometer, 0.62 miles, or larger, have already been identified by NASA and its partners."

How do they know it's 90%? I mean, if the denominator is unknown? If the denominator is known, then doesn't that mean they've identified them?

Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by mattkrause on Friday July 26, 2019 @07:29PM (#20539223)
Abundance estimation is a big problem in ecology (and other fields), and they’ve developed some clever ways to estimate population sizes without doing an exhaustive census.

One popular approach is a capture-recapture experiment. On your first trip, you find as many of your targets as possible and mark each one. With turtles, you might paint something on the shell; here, it might be something like determining its orbit and other characteristics. You wait a bit, and search again (starting from scratch), but this time you separately record the number of “new” specimens and the number recaptured. A tiny bit of algebra from these three numbers gives you an estimate of the population size.

Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by joemag on Friday July 26, 2019 @09:34PM (#20539832)
It comes with a bias though, since your searches will bias towards finding asteroids that are easiest to find using your search method.
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by ccapo on Friday July 26, 2019 @10:43PM (#20540079)
Correct, and since that bias is towards larger NEOs, which are relatively easier to detect then smaller objects, they can be reasonably confident about that estimate. It is the medium to small size NEOs that are the most worrisome. They are harder to detect, and hence harder to estimate how many are out there.
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by BurningFrog on Saturday July 27, 2019 @12:35AM (#20540395)
Seems like a bigger problem for turtles than for asteroids.

I mean, asteroids don't deliberately hide.

Sure, some are darker and/or have a less visible radar profile or whatever, but the variations seem manageable.

Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by craftyguy on Saturday July 27, 2019 @10:19AM (#20542142)
They don't deliberately hide, but (as mentioned in the article) they can vary dramatically in how visible they are to us over time if, for example, they have a highly eccentric orbit.
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by mnky9800n on Friday July 26, 2019 @10:31PM (#20540031)
Show me a measurement that doesn't come with bias
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by Bootvis on Saturday July 27, 2019 @03:23AM (#20540838)
I have one apple.
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by hcs on Saturday July 27, 2019 @03:50AM (#20540912)
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by teamonkey on Saturday July 27, 2019 @03:54AM (#20540927)
Survivorship bias
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by vntok on Saturday July 27, 2019 @03:53AM (#20540922)
You took a bite off it though, so your measurement is in fact biased. Other people might measure 0.75 apple instead.
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by Cacti on Friday July 26, 2019 @07:10PM (#20539129)
It’s a statistical argument based on the observed distribution of asteroids. It’s not precisely true, and could even be widely incorrect, but they think it’s likely to be in the correct neighborhood.

Also, after a certain size things become significantly easier to detect with your existing instruments, so there is some confidence from that.

Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by parcec on Friday July 26, 2019 @07:30PM (#20539229)
Related to this (though maybe not directly applicable), in certain scenarios there is a difference between what can be reliably detected vs tracked. For example, in the context of debris orbiting the earth, our radars can take LEO census measurements down to 3-4mm, even though we can only reliably track things on the ~10cm size range.

We can therefore semi-confidently say we know how many 1cm objects there are out there, even if we can’t predict the trajectory of any single one. (Similar to atoms, really)

Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by goodcanadian on Saturday July 27, 2019 @04:40AM (#20541070)
The mark-recapture method has been mentioned. Additionally, you can create fake data and run it through your search algorithm to get an estimate of your detection efficiency.
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by raymondh on Friday July 26, 2019 @08:08PM (#20539397)
IIRC, the 90% estimate is based on how often searches encounter previously cataloged objects.
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by Syzygies on Friday July 26, 2019 @06:26PM (#20538895)
It missed Earth by 73,000 kilometers; Earth has radius 6,371 kilometers.

(79371 * 79371) / (6371 * 6371) = 155.2

This was a game of darts in a galactic pub. The dart hit the dart board, but not the bullseye (Earth). One in every 155 times we play this game, it ends badly.

Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by jarfil on Friday July 26, 2019 @08:01PM (#20539360)
How often do we play this same game, though? If a 1Km size asteroid seems to hit the Earth about once every 500,000 years, it would seem like they would pass this close to the Earth only once every 32,000 years or so.

So either the 500Ky figure is wrong, or we've been extremely lucky to witness a once-in-30Ky event, or we're missing something.

Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by mikeash on Friday July 26, 2019 @11:35PM (#20540233)
This was only 100m. Those probably hit semi-regularly and would have usually gone unnoticed or at least unrecorded before modern times.
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by gabia on Sunday July 28, 2019 @06:12PM (#20550109)
Incredibly in Australia there are impact events recorded in indigenous oral tradition dating back thousands of years.

http://www.aboriginalastronomy.com.au/content/topics/craters...

Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by ls612 on Friday July 26, 2019 @06:59PM (#20539084)
Even if it hit the earth the odds of it landing anywhere near a city are slim. 3/4 of the time it hits the ocean, Siberia, the Canadian north, or the Antarctic.
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by ChuckMcM on Friday July 26, 2019 @07:29PM (#20539221)
Although an asteroid of that size, depending on its makeup, can have other damaging effects. For example, by area, the pacific ocean covers a lot of the planet. An asteroid hitting the pacific can cause a tsunami that could seriously damage any coastal city in range.
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by ls612 on Friday July 26, 2019 @08:12PM (#20539417)
Even a 390 ft nickel-iron asteroid wouldn’t have enough energy to create a meaningful tsunami. We’re talking energy along the lines of Castle Bravo, not the asteroid that killed the dinos.
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by hadlock on Saturday July 27, 2019 @05:03AM (#20541120)
An asteroid of this size would need to land within 1000 ft of shore to have any meaningful wave height, and would only significantly impact maybe a mile of shoreline. You need to move an impressively large volume of water to create a Fukashima-type event.
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by StavrosK on Friday July 26, 2019 @07:20PM (#20539181)
Serendipitously cooling the surface of the earth down by exactly 2.2 C.
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by pault on Friday July 26, 2019 @08:40PM (#20539605)
Perhaps the solution to climate change is dropping a rock the size of a stadium on Canada every few years.
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by setr on Friday July 26, 2019 @11:26PM (#20540195)
Mine some ice from an asteroid and drop it into the ocean, with larger blocks every few years as pollution increases :-)
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by teamonkey on Saturday July 27, 2019 @03:59AM (#20540949)
Much of the ice would vaporise on entry. Water vapor is a greenhouse gas.
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by quakenul on Saturday July 27, 2019 @05:59AM (#20541255)
Yes. But more importantly, that was a Futurama reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cjx4gJFME0
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by imtringued on Sunday July 28, 2019 @08:01AM (#20547069)
It can either both prevent sunlight from entering or leaving depending on the altitude.
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by HeWhoLurksLate on Friday July 26, 2019 @07:25PM (#20539210)
Bring it, punk!
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by vkou on Friday July 26, 2019 @07:45PM (#20539289)
One thing to note: the Tunguska meteor was ~50-200m in diameter, and was equivalent to a 3-30 mega-tonne explosion.
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by mrb on Saturday July 27, 2019 @07:58AM (#20541605)
You massively underestimate the destruction caused by a 1km asteroid. Remember some scientists estimate the asteroid that killed dinosaurs was as small as 11km. In other words a 1km one may be 1/10th the diameter needed to cause an extinction-level event.

A 1km asteroid will cause massive casualties no matter where it impacts. If it hits the ocean it will cause a tsunami. If it hits a remote land it will eject so much debris in the atmosphere that they will block sunlight around the globe and reduce temperatures by multiple degrees, thus reducing food crop yields and causing worldwide food shortages and famine.

Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by vmasto on Saturday July 27, 2019 @08:34AM (#20541733)
This was a 100m asteroid (city killer), not 1km.
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by EForEndeavour on Saturday July 27, 2019 @05:59PM (#20544473)
And a factor of 10 difference in linear size (radius, diameter, etc.) implies a factor of 1000 difference in mass.
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by eridius on Friday July 26, 2019 @06:47PM (#20539024)
How does the math change when you take into account the fact that Earth exerts a gravitational pull on the asteroid?
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by gamedori on Saturday July 27, 2019 @12:58AM (#20540458)
It probably has no effect: objects that are not in stable orbits around the earth are going to be in hyperbolic orbits relative to the Earth's gravitational field. A dangerous asteroid would need a periapsis lower than the Earth's radius by a certain amount to hit the Earth, so the risk of collision is still roughly proportional to Area. If gravity is a factor I would expect it to be a high order term. Atmospheric effects are probably more significant.
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by Skunkleton on Friday July 26, 2019 @07:17PM (#20539165)
Interesting question, not sure. As the speed of the astroid is goes up, the relevance of gravity goes down. As the speed goes down, the damage it can do also goes down, and also reduces the probability of an encounter.
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by lutorm on Friday July 26, 2019 @07:20PM (#20539178)
The degree of gravitational focusing depends on the speed of the incoming object, but I seem to recall that for typical interplanetary velocities it's of order 1, ie not huge.
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by dmckeon on Friday July 26, 2019 @07:43PM (#20539282)
It may not change this encounter much, but it could change the orbit just enough for some future earth-orbit crossing - as could the gravitational effect of any of the other planets, their moons, and all the other asteroids change the orbits of anything out there. Solar systems can be messy places, over geologic time frames. Sometime, sooner or later, we will have a significant impact.
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by quickthrower2 on Friday July 26, 2019 @07:18PM (#20539172)
And does that make it more likely to miss? Ie it gets slung around by gravity instead of hitting?
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by kryogen1c on Friday July 26, 2019 @07:52PM (#20539321)
Thinking out loud time! My favorite!

To matter for a single pass, the object must be small and/or traveling slowly. Otherwise, itll just keep on cruising.

Iteratively is a different story. Many objects repeatedly cross earths path. How that orbit changes over time i suppose is a function of the other gravity wells the objects pass when they arent near earth. I expect there are so many confounding gravities that only a certain belt\torus exists in the universe where, inside that torus, space stuff is capable of running into us.

Side note: this article is clickbaity because it implies no one knew asteroids almost crash into us without us knowing, but thats not true. People know. There are hard reset buttons floating around in space and we might just press one without warning.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potentially_hazardous_object

Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by probablybroken on Saturday July 27, 2019 @02:48AM (#20540741)
Why would the size of the object matter in this instance?
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by kryogen1c on Saturday July 27, 2019 @10:19AM (#20542141)
Mass, not really size. The smaller the object relative to earth, the more its course is changed by earths gravity.
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by probablybroken on Saturday July 27, 2019 @11:54AM (#20542578)
You may want to refer to Galileo's leaning tower of pisa experiment...
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by rosser on Friday July 26, 2019 @06:42PM (#20538995)
Assuming no other conditions change, and that the object crosses Earth's orbit as the planet is passing by, and so on.

I'd be willing to bet, however, that this object's orbit permutes a bit with every pass, especially dipping that deeply into the gravity wells of other, much more massive, objects.

Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by whamlastxmas on Friday July 26, 2019 @10:01PM (#20539917)
It was described as "astronomically small" that something like this would hit us so I imagine there's factors not being considered here
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by vkou on Friday July 26, 2019 @07:41PM (#20539276)
How often do we play this game?

How often would it hit something we care about on the dartboard?

Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by mr_toad on Friday July 26, 2019 @11:18PM (#20540177)
> One in every 155 times we play this game, it ends badly.

That assumes only one degree of freedom. If you consider the area of the dart-board vs the area of the bullseye, the odds are much lower.

Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by Sharlin on Saturday July 27, 2019 @03:41AM (#20540890)
No, the GP specifically talked about area.
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by pault on Friday July 26, 2019 @06:43PM (#20539003)
On galactic scales that's more like glancing off the ring of the bulls eye.
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by Cacti on Friday July 26, 2019 @07:11PM (#20539137)
On galactic scales it’s a meaningless analogy.
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by idlewords on Friday July 26, 2019 @07:42PM (#20539280)
Your math is off because the bullseye gravitationally attracts the dart
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by sideshowb on Saturday July 27, 2019 @04:00AM (#20540952)
Only significantly so if the dart is going very slow
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by mturmon on Friday July 26, 2019 @06:59PM (#20539081)
You can browse recent approaches at:

https://cneos.jpl.nasa.gov/ca/

To isolate to really near stuff, choose +/- 30 days, and Nominal distance <= 1LD (lunar distance).

The asteroid in OP is linked to here: https://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/sbdb.cgi?sstr=2019%20OK -- there's an orbit diagram.

Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by ratsmack on Friday July 26, 2019 @10:45PM (#20540083)
The interactive 3D orbital graphic is great for visualizing the orbits and how they cross the Earth's path.
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by lisper on Friday July 26, 2019 @05:53PM (#20538680)
If this sort of thing concerns you, you might want to consider supporting this organization:

https://b612foundation.org

Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by lucb1e on Saturday July 27, 2019 @07:04AM (#20541429)
I honestly think we have bigger problems right now, like spending money on ways to reduce greenhouse gasses. We need to develop alternatives to non-renewables and, until we can use the alternatives, work on removing the gasses from the atmosphere.

Putting my money where my mouth is: I've been looking into this and as soon as I get my credit card (to be able to pay, I've never needed a CC before), I will sign up with https://climeworks.com to recapture some of my CO2. They seem to be one of the few that are actually capturing right now, so the money will be used for real capture, not just R&D that might yield results in the future. But to spread the risk, I am also going to spend money on the more traditional method of planting trees (which company is TBD, I have yet to find one that actually guarantees that they (or the locals) won't rip the tree out before it had a chance to capture its promised CO2). On the reduction side, I travel to work by public transport, work from home (it stays naturally cool) instead of using our office air conditioning unit, have a 100% renewable energy contract at home, etc.

Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by projektfu on Saturday July 27, 2019 @09:33AM (#20541954)
It's called B612 Foundation and not a single reference to the Little Prince on the homepage besides the name? Weird.
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by lisper on Saturday July 27, 2019 @06:27PM (#20544651)
Yeah, there is an explanation, but it's well hidden:

https://b612foundation.org/ever-wondered-where-the-name-b612...

Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by chris5745 on Friday July 26, 2019 @04:44PM (#20538196)
I imagine without early and widespread warning, an asteroid impact could be mistaken by nation-states for an attack. What safeguards (if any) might we have or develop to prevent an asteroid hitting country 1 from causing a “counter” strike by country 1 against country 2?
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by gitpusher on Friday July 26, 2019 @08:24PM (#20539506)
Very unlikely that China, Russia, or US (and its allied countries) would misidentify a nuclear attack. There are massive surveillance resources dedicated toward atmospheric sampling, etc. etc. and a non-nuclear explosion would be correctly identified as such in very short order.

On top of that, even a 30-meter asteroid impact would release more energy on impact than a typical nuclear warhead. A 250-meter asteroid might release more energy than ALL nuclear weapons used in the world to date.

Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by sanxiyn on Friday July 26, 2019 @09:59PM (#20539908)
Atmospheric sampling is definitive but slow, because it necessarily propagates at wind speed. I do agree misidentification is very unlikely.
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by hdfbdtbcdg on Saturday July 27, 2019 @01:38AM (#20540566)
They would identify initially using the global seismic network..
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by nvrspyx on Friday July 26, 2019 @06:26PM (#20538891)
Would country 1 counter-strike without getting confirmation that it was, in fact, country 2? How would they know it wasn't country 3, 4, or 5?
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by acqq on Saturday July 27, 2019 @07:46AM (#20541557)
If you ask what the known U.S. procedures and plans have been, the answer is a resounding YES, they would have nuclearly attacked ALL their enemies at once according to the man whose job was to evaluate these procedures and plans of the U.S. military:

https://www.bloomsbury.com/uk/the-doomsday-machine-978140888...

Just a sample quote:

"I soon discovered that in the plans of Pacific forces, from top to bottom, there was no provision at all for attacking only the Russian targets in their sphere. In every plan for war with the Soviet Union, Chinese targets (including every major city in China) were also struck."

In the whole book there are many accounts on that, on the various levels of the chain of command, even intentionally designed to act independently.

More transparency is still needed there, probably much less was changed in the following years than it ever admitted to any civilian, including the presidents, again according to the book, so the state is more than scary and when I read that insider info, I consider these involved really completely mad. Most of them Nazi-like "we just follow the orders" mad, and some simply pure evil mad.

Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by tzakrajs on Friday July 26, 2019 @06:31PM (#20538930)
Similar to the cyber attack attribution problem, isn't it?
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by lowdose on Friday July 26, 2019 @11:31PM (#20540213)
Stuxnet had some pretty program time traces in the code.
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by lutorm on Friday July 26, 2019 @07:24PM (#20539203)
I think apart from the energy release there are few similarities with a nuclear explosion (no EMP, no radioactive fallout) plus I have to imagine any air defense radar system could detect the incoming asteroid in its final moments.
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by caymanjim on Saturday July 27, 2019 @01:15AM (#20540521)
This is a legitimate concern with the "young" nuclear powers, like India and Pakistan. Their detection technology is less mature; their command-and-control systems are less mature; there's a higher level of tension between the two. Neither country is incompetent or hungry for war, but it's worrying to me. I'd expect them to behave rationally, but if the timing happened to coincide with a particularly combative episode, things could get out of control. I'm not even going to speculate about how North Korea might react; they're a total wildcard.
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by vinayms on Saturday July 27, 2019 @05:34AM (#20541195)
This is just alarmist. The bravado shown on TV is surely not taken seriously by the authorities themselves for they know the consequences. So even if the point of impact coincides with the crescendo of tension to the T, sanity will prevail despite it seeming otherwise.
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by familysized on Saturday July 27, 2019 @06:00AM (#20541257)
That is a very naive point of view. You don't know that their systems are "less mature". And do you really think thousands of seasoned scientists on both sides are going to misclassify any such event?
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by sudosteph on Friday July 26, 2019 @06:00PM (#20538721)
Not sure, but that scenario does sound like a interesting plot for a book or movie.
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by Yetanfou on Friday July 26, 2019 @06:29PM (#20538915)
Niven and Pournelle thought so as well when they wrote "Lucifer's Hammer" [1] in which "...China, anticipating the coming ice age launches a preemptive nuclear attack on Russia. The last Soviet Premier reassures the US that they are not the target, and he requests help against the unprovoked attack."

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer%27s_Hammer

Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by walrus01 on Saturday July 27, 2019 @06:59AM (#20541412)
Major nuclear powers all operate satellite based infrared launch detection systems. A rocket launch is a very unique thermal signature. I imagine China and Russia have satellites watching the north Dakota icbm fields, and vice versa.
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by tzakrajs on Friday July 26, 2019 @06:30PM (#20538924)
One big safeguard is that no launch would be detected?
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by rixed on Friday July 26, 2019 @10:35PM (#20540057)
Failure to automatically launch the missiles.

In that case that might even be planned incompetence.

Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by idlewords on Friday July 26, 2019 @07:44PM (#20539284)
Second asteroid hitting country 2
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by jacobush on Friday July 26, 2019 @06:23PM (#20538877)
And of course, causing a counter-counter strike from country 2 against country 1. Messy!
[deleted]
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by ianamartin on Friday July 26, 2019 @07:04PM (#20539107)
Why would you do any of that? Comment without reading? Comment while knowing you are not informed?

Are you just commenting for the sake of commenting?

Is this satire?

Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by tempguy9999 on Saturday July 27, 2019 @02:51AM (#20540750)
You're right, I should not have posted. I'll ask DanG to delete it as I can't.

It's was not entirely clueless as I actually know a little about this, but still. Sorry all.

Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by mirimir on Friday July 26, 2019 @07:28PM (#20539217)
Likely. Protesting sites that require tracking scripts to display text and images.
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by progval on Friday July 26, 2019 @07:30PM (#20539226)
> Article requires js

You can read it without js, when you disable css

Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by User23 on Friday July 26, 2019 @06:43PM (#20539005)
Also, it really could be an attack. It's within the realm of plausibility for country 1 to launch a nudging vehicle to push a space rock into a collision course with country 2.
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by dandelany on Friday July 26, 2019 @06:52PM (#20539051)
Eh maybe. It strains plausibility. We can't even accurately predict where deorbiting satellites will end up... It's pretty hard to imagine a nudge with the required delta-V and accuracy to hit a specific nation. Too far away and you get too much uncertainty, too close and you don't have enough dV for the push. Even if it could be done with today's technology, the potential for error is high, and if you screw up, you've accidentally started another war or "bombed" your own country. Can't imagine that a military with the requisite technology to pull this off wouldn't be able to think of a less-risky way to obliterate their enemy.
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by Someone on Saturday July 27, 2019 @01:01AM (#20540468)
”We can't even accurately predict where deorbiting satellites will end up...”

I think that’s because they are so small. The impact of earth’s atmosphere on a 100m solid rock will be negligible in comparison.

Their speed perpendicular to earth also is very low, meaning they spend more time in the athmosphere. I guess they may even bounce of it a couple of times. If so, computing impact location requires calculating how many times a skipping stone will skip.

(But no, I don’t think we have the technology to make this an effective weapon. I would go for that rail gun on the moon instead. Still not quite within reach, but it would be a lot easier to get targeting accuracy)

Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by jmkappz on Friday July 26, 2019 @09:30PM (#20539820)
JPL Horizons is awesome for this. You can easily obtain the information on your own using the ephemerides at https://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/horizons.cgi#top :

- minimum distance of 71350 km (44,334 miles vs 45,360 in article)

- Speed around 24.5 km/s (15.2 miles/sec vs 15 in article)

- Closest on july 25 at 01:21 UTC

Here's a rendering of the trajectory of the asteroid and the moon in july to get an idea of how close it came (moon orbits around 384,000 km from earth): https://imgur.com/a/3JaakFJ

Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by ralphm on Saturday July 27, 2019 @11:39AM (#20542494)
The original article (https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/07/26/it-snuck-up...) includes links to some interesting background information, including the event leveling a huge forest area. And it correctly uses square km/miles instead of "square acres".
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by pulkitsh1234 on Saturday July 27, 2019 @02:14AM (#20540663)
For those interested, you can watch Joe Rogan's podcast with Randall Carlson on this topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R31SXuFeX0A
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by partiallypro on Friday July 26, 2019 @10:12PM (#20539952)
The likelihood it would hit a highly populated area is still incredibly slim even if it did strike earth. I wonder if there are some smaller asteroids on rare occasions just landing in the ocean that we don't really know about.
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by mikhailfranco on Saturday July 27, 2019 @03:28AM (#20540850)
The distribution of orbits, and hence strikes, is an interesting problem.

Here is a plot of population against latitude:

https://www.themarysue.com/world-population-latitude-longitu...

I assume a bias to the ecliptic, hence the area within the tropics is more likely to get hit. Big spikes for Jakarta, Dhaka, Shanghai/PRD, Delhi/Mumbai/Karachi/Lahore, Kinshasa, Lagos ...

I also suppose you could attack the problem in two ways: historical strikes (confounded by erosion, tectonics and subduction), and orbital statistics, perhaps weighted by asteroid size.

Anyone have refs for this?

Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by m0zg on Saturday July 27, 2019 @12:17AM (#20540354)
So here's what I was wondering for quite some time: if, let's say, hypothetically, there were an object approaching Earth at nearly the speed of light, is there any way in our frame of reference to even detect it?

And is it possible for such an object to exist in our universe, and if not, why?

The math seems to work out such that the object the size of a US quarter (5.67g) at 0.999 C will have a relativistic kinetic energy around 2.6MT of TNT.

Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by Ididntdothis on Saturday July 27, 2019 @12:50AM (#20540437)
If something travels nearly the speed of light we couldn’t detect it. Any kind of information from this object would at maximum travel at the speed of light so this information would arrive only a little sooner.
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by ycombonator on Saturday July 27, 2019 @12:58AM (#20540457)
Asking for a friend, is it not possible to park phased array satellites out at 43,000 KM orbit looking for faint smaller asteroids with current technology?
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by rishav_sharan on Saturday July 27, 2019 @01:00AM (#20540462)
Technically, yes. Politically? We don't use the word sense with politics.
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by simonebrunozzi on Saturday July 27, 2019 @12:36AM (#20540397)
I might be wrong, but in a previous comment [0] a few days ago I noted that the asteroid composition is mostly ice, which means it should be much less dangerous than a "rock".

[0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20508618

Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by xenonite on Saturday July 27, 2019 @02:35AM (#20540706)
Similary, the Seattle Post writes:

> Lakdawalla said that while the asteroid’s close brush with Earth may have sparked some concern, “it is zero percent danger to us. It’s the kind of thing where you learn about something that you didn’t know about, like things flying close by us, and your inclination is to be scared,” she said. “But just like sharks in the ocean, they’re really not going to hurt you and they’re really fascinating to look at.”

Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by ghostDancer on Friday July 26, 2019 @07:04PM (#20539108)
Planetary defense from Planetary Society if you want to help or participate http://www.planetary.org/explore/projects/planetary-defense/
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by jmiskovic on Saturday July 27, 2019 @06:49AM (#20541385)
Sir Arthur Clarke describes the impact itself nicely in Rama intro: https://youtu.be/yMPA25SGlpA?t=88

As I understand, the mayor threat is the dust which doesn't settle for many months. This could starve world's population and pose a major existential risk. Maybe we can use our spy satellite network and just turn all sensors outwards?

Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by GarrisonPrime on Friday July 26, 2019 @08:48PM (#20539640)
I have no reason to doubt this story - that it caught everyone by surprise. But if such an asteroid was discovered in advance and it was determined we were at high risk of being hit, I'm not so sure the public at large would be notified in every circumstance. If the impact would be large enough and/or the warning short enough, getting people panicky might do more harm than good.
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by dandelany on Saturday July 27, 2019 @03:57PM (#20543802)
The problem with this idea is that it rests on two incorrect assumptions - that there is some governing body that would be able to prevent the release of such information, and that we would immediately know upon detection that the asteroid was on a collision course.

In fact, in this case, the asteroid was detected independently by the SONEAR survey in Brazil and the ASAS-SN telescope network run by Ohio State University. Neither of these would fall under the "jurisdiction" of NASA or any governmental organization that would effectively be able to prevent them from talking about it. ASAS-SN tweeted the discovery, and I'm quite sure they didn't have to ask anyone permission to do so.

Secondly, the first few observations of a newly-discovered near-Earth object are generally not enough information to calculate the object's orbit accurately enough to know if it will hit Earth or not. So what do scientists do when they discover one? They immediately report it to the IAU and get the word out to as many other astronomers as possible, in order to obtain more observations & accurately determine the orbit.

As a result, it's hard to imagine how such a discovery could be kept secret.

Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by GarrisonPrime on Monday July 29, 2019 @12:04PM (#20556022)
>The problem with this idea is that it rests on two incorrect assumptions - that there is some governing body that would be able to prevent the release of such information, and that we would immediately know upon detection that the asteroid was on a collision course.

Not necessarily. Only a couple people knew about this one before it had whizzed by. While I agree it'd be impossible to keep an upcoming impact secret, if the timeframe is short enough it would only take a few select people to keep it contained long enough to no longer matter.

And choosing to keep it secret wouldn't only be done if collision was known to be certain. Just having a moderate chance of impact might be enough.

Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by shoo on Friday July 26, 2019 @07:22PM (#20539194)
on another hand, if you see a gamma-ray-burst heading this way, duck and cover... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HvwNOSnveE
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by thatswrong0 on Friday July 26, 2019 @08:16PM (#20539438)
I mean that’d be near instant vaporization wouldn’t it? For some reason that makes me less scared about it since you wouldn’t really know what’s happening before it’s all over
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by omegaworks on Friday July 26, 2019 @09:19PM (#20539778)
No, according to the video gamma ray burst means increase in UV potentially damaging DNA of phytoplankton, global cooling due to NO2 solar energy reflection.

It'll be pretty slow, but at a large scale.

Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by r3dk1ng on Friday July 26, 2019 @11:14PM (#20540170)
Your comment made me think of whether a GRB could have caused the cambrian explosion. So I searched for that and found this paper:

https://arxiv.org/abs/1403.7303

Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by mikhailfranco on Saturday July 27, 2019 @04:12AM (#20540992)
I am surprised with the talk about optical visibility. Are there no radars deployed for scanning the skies?
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by scarhill on Saturday July 27, 2019 @09:40AM (#20541971)
Because these objects are moving fast, you would need to look a long way out. Long range radar is hard because the inverse square law applies in both directions, so you need 16x the power to double the range.
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by mikhailfranco on Monday August 05, 2019 @10:18PM (#20621476)
Maybe a solar powered array on the dark side of the Moon, to restrict any interference from Earth systems, and you get a nice sweep of the ecliptic for free.
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by aasasd on Saturday July 27, 2019 @04:08AM (#20540976)
So it was set to stun, not to kill?
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by AtomicOrbital on Saturday July 27, 2019 @08:18AM (#20541680)
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by known on Saturday July 27, 2019 @06:20AM (#20541322)
Doesn't it vindicate the we need to weaponize space?
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by skyfaller on Saturday July 27, 2019 @01:36PM (#20543090)
Not really, because space weapons inevitably lead to at the very least space weapons testing, and most likely space combat. Space combat creates space junk, which prevents us from going to space in the future, which prevents us from detecting and deflecting asteroids.

You might think "well, we just need to find ways to destroy space junk" but unfortunately (almost?) all tools useful for destroying space junk can also be used to destroy perfectly functional objects in space, and therefore count as space weapons, which lead to space junk...

Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by torgian on Saturday July 27, 2019 @01:56AM (#20540614)
I still think someone tried to redirect its path and made a minor mistake in their calculations ;)
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by dv_dt on Friday July 26, 2019 @06:33PM (#20538939)
It's too bad the "space force" isn't setup just for this.
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by hdfbdtbcdg on Saturday July 27, 2019 @01:42AM (#20540571)
Scientists are already searching for and tracking such objects. More funding would be nice but we definitely don't need the US to break more treaties in order for the world to track NEOs.
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by antepodius on Saturday July 27, 2019 @02:20AM (#20540674)
Who really cares about the space treaty?

It'd be nice to have a well-funded group that has 'making sure no asteroids hit us' as part of its motto

Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by hdfbdtbcdg on Saturday July 27, 2019 @03:33AM (#20540865)
Russia and China would create a space force if the US did...
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by dv_dt on Sunday July 28, 2019 @12:31PM (#20548350)
Maybe we should create a world anti-asteroid space force...
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by dv_dt on Saturday July 27, 2019 @09:13PM (#20545300)
I meant just as in exclusively for this. And what is the point of tracking them if we don't plan to do anything about them?
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by phkahler on Friday July 26, 2019 @09:57PM (#20539901)
An asteroid on collision course will not be seen. I just realized an old concept applies here. When two objects are on a collision course with each traveling in a straight line, the apparent heading toward one as viewed from the other does not change. In other words, when a deer runs in front of a car, the angle to the deer doesn't change - it just gets bigger as you close in, but position in your field of view doesn't change.

Astronomers look for things moving against the background sky, but over a short enough time span (maybe a few days) the earth and an asteroid are moving almost in straight lines. That means all you'd see is a speck of light that gets brighter as it gets closer, but does not appear to move against the distant background stars.

Has anyone quantified this phenomenon with respect to asteroid hunting?

Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by Smithalicious on Friday July 26, 2019 @10:53PM (#20540119)
This would be true if the asteroid and the earth are both points. Obviously, they aren't. An observing scientist would not see it this way unless it were heading directly for them.
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by phkahler on Saturday July 27, 2019 @11:47AM (#20542531)
>> An observing scientist would not see it this way unless it were heading directly for them.

That was my point exactly. An asteroid heading directly towards us will not appear to be moving against the background. If that movement is required in their detection methods, it will fail for the most dangerous ones.

Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by krzat on Saturday July 27, 2019 @02:41AM (#20540721)
I'm not an expert, but I imagine that astronomers are pretty good at determining brightness of objects. And space stuff moves in orbits anyway.
Re:Scientists stunned by ‘city-killer’ asteroid that just mi... by hdfbdtbcdg on Saturday July 27, 2019 @01:44AM (#20540579)
I suspect that astronomers are using exactly this principal to search for NEOs.