Audiobooks of non-fiction work for me because I'm listening in otherwise dead time: when I'm driving there is nothing else to do. The average person [US?] spends 50 minutes a day alone in their car. That if you use that time to listen to a non-fiction book and learn something you are a better person. If you zone out and decide you don't care to rewind to where you zoned out it isn't a loss.

I don't think fiction would work this way, too much of the plot depends on what happened on the last page. However non-fiction if you miss point B but get A, D, and part of C you are still better even if you never go back to learn what B was or fully grok C.

I listen to them while going to sleep. That way I enjoy going to sleep every night. I set a sleep timer to turn off the audio after 30 minutes but usually only make it 10 minutes in. The next night I skim through to where I don't recall hearing and start again. Rinse and repeat, I've listened to perhaps a hundred audiobooks in the last several years, love going to sleep, and get to sleep far quicker too.

Currently this feature in Audible is implemented in a way that makes it unusable for me: I add 10 min timer. Almost falling asleep when the time us up, but not fully, so I would like to continue. So I gently press play on my headset. But then the timer is off, so if I fall asleep it will play for hours. So to combat that, I have to bring up my phone and add a new timer. This takes me out of the almost-falling-asleep, and back to square one.

And this is why we need DRM-free audiobooks -- so we can have a competitive market of audiobook player apps rather than being locked into the distributor's app. Luckily, https://libro.fm has a good selection of DRM-free audiobooks. (They also offer their own app, but you don't have to use it.)

Audible files don’t use any special DRM. They’re just encrypted with your user ID and you can convert them to a portable format like mp3 with either a couple terminal commands or one of a few utility software options. I move my Audible books into iTunes.

The fact that we know how to easily break the DRM is fantastic, but it does not make the files DRM Free.

My point is that the files don’t contain DRM; they use a standard encryption format with a key that Audible gives you (your ID.) You could lock your own audio using the same formatting without installing anything special.

It would be DRM if Audible locked the file to their player with a key pairing that only they knew and refused to provide the user or forbade them from accessing via usage terms.

There were many years during which the only known way to decrypt Audible books was by burning CD's and ripping them back, or exploiting the analog loophole. The encryption may have been standard, but no one had figured it out, and it's not as though Audible told anyone what to do.

Again, it's great that we now know how the encryption works, and everyone should go ahead and decrypt their books. But DVD's aren't DRM Free just because the encryption format was broken a long ago.

Furthermore, Audible's usage terms do restrict you from decrypting your audiobooks! Whether you want to abide by them are of course up to you.

You’re right, the terms do ask you not to do that. My mistake.

I’m glad it’s at least straightforward to do so now if it wasn’t in the past, even if it’s against the terms.

That's why I set it for 30 minutes for me. 95% of the time I am asleep by then. 10 minutes wouldn't work for me either.

As a matter of fact, I keep aa set of udio books on my phone specifically as a sleep aid. I find that listening to a steady voice puts me straight to sleep within a few minutes.

They work for me when I walk, clean or drive. I noticed that when I do anything else while I listen, I just zone out and forget where I was and have to start over or go back.

I haven't listened to audiobooks for a long time because I don't drive much. (Don't commute.) I find for podcasts, listening in the car is about the only time they really work for me. Probably because driving requires a level of attention but usually not too much attention.

When I try to listen to podcasts at home my mind usually ends up drifting. And I can't stand having earbuds with music or anything else in my ears when walking. Separates me from my environment too much.

I do one ear when I'm walking or working. I do both if I'm at the gym.

for podcasts, if you use a podcast app like Overcast that supports playback speed adjustments and silence skipping you might find a speed that keeps your attention while still retaining the important stuff.

I wonder if any audiobook apps support that kind of speedup feature?

Personally I have a Goldilocks zone. If I'm just lying on the sofa I start thinking about other things, if I'm doing too much I miss what is happening in the book. However things like walking around town or cleaning the house I really enjoy audiobooks or podcasts.

I walk to and from work - they are perfect for me. My body is engaged so the audiobooks stimulate my brain just enough to allow me to stay locked in.

Same for me. I actually don't want my commute to be shorter than it is now (~30 minutes) because I fall way behind on my podcast queue without it.

I drive a lot and audiobooks are how I pass time. Usually I can stay focused. When I find myself losing focus and unable to get it back I switch to music. Still, I find it a lot easier to focus on audio than text on paper these days. I've listened to 50-100 audiobooks in the last few years where I have finished reading approximately three paper/kindle books. I like the audiobooks keep reading when I temporarily lose focus. Can always rewind a few minutes and try again if I get lost.

It helps to only listen to books I am interested in, can learn from. I don't listen to fiction in general because it's harder for me to follow when someone else is acting out the characters.

Why is your reaction “I zone out therefore audiobooks aren’t for me” instead of “I zone out, therefore it would be a great idea to practice my listening skills”?

I’ve had huge issues with zoning out, wearing down the skip back button, skipping back a minute every two minutes, relistening to the same part five times. But it’s gotten better and better.

Now I often have blocks of 20 minutes where I don’t need to rewind.

Also keep in mind that some styles of writing (and narration!) are harder to follow than others. It might be the book/narrator that’s the issue and not the medium

This was a huge issue for me at first, but I seem to have naturally gotten better with practice. But I still have to stop listening semi-regularly when I realize my environment has become too distracting and I’m losing focus.

Early on I did more light non-fiction and self-helpy things because I didn’t mind as much if I missed a line or two.

Same. Also podcasts. The whole medium doesn't work for me at all. I'll try to get into some podcast I'm assured is up my alley, make it a couple minutes, then realize I've been zoning out for a solid ten minutes and haven't processed a word they've said.

Talky video programs are sometimes OK. I can pay attention to them, at least, it's just that most aren't very good.

I can do the dedicated-listening thing to music but the point of podcasts is supposed to be that you can listen to them while doing something else—almost none are worth dedicated listening time. I can't manage that. I miss too much to follow WTF they're talking about, so it's just noise, and I have enough of that as it is and don't need more.

[EDIT] I also hate—hate—having the TV on as "background noise" so maybe that has something to do with it.

I listen to audiobooks while taking long walks. If my mind wanders, I use the "skip back" button (in Audible you can customize the amount of time the skip-back is for). I try to make sure I catch everything because the book gets boring if you lose track of what's going on. Sometimes my mind wanders repeatedly on the same sentence and I just can't catch what was said. Then I try to repeat what they're saying to force my brain to process it, and/or take a short break.

There are two other cases where I'll lose track while walking:

When I need to pay attention to something else like crossing the street, or passing other people on the sidewalk. Just use the skip back.

I have something on my mind that I need to process. Turn off the audio and think quietly while I walk. Sometimes it's just not a good time for books, but music is what I need.

I can't just listen to an audiobook while sitting around. I'll want to do something else, right away.

Sometimes I'll also listen to an audiobook while doing mindless chores, but the book needs to be extra interesting to make up for it, otherwise it's just not worth the distraction.

If a book is really interesting (usually something that I think is going to revolutionize my life) then I'll be listening to it every moment I can.

A little off topic but, I usually get the place I was walking, and the feeling of the book wired together in my brain.

It's definitely a different thing, and I listen to different books than I would read. Fiction rarely works for me, as an audiobook. Douglas Adams is a notable exception. His audiobooks were fantastic, and I assume this relates to those books' origin as radio-dramas.

It depends on context though. If I'm driving and listening, my attention is good enough to follow light nonfiction. If I'm washing dishes or commuting, something more conversational like a podcast is better.

Incidentally, I'd be real interested in audiobooks as supplements to books rather than just alternative mediums. Take a book like Sapiens. I like to read a book like that, using my eyes. But.. if each chapter/topic had a conversation between ynh and colleagues, students or somesuch... It makes for a nice supplement. Read the books take on the paleolithic/linguistic revolution.. and then maybe conversationally talk about alternative possibilities or the history of the idea.

Not limited to college course based books (sapiens was "intro to world history," before it was a book). "Classics" could have book club-like companion audiobooks. I'm all in if someone want to make a companion audiobook to George Orwell's essays, for example.

For me, I have to listen to audio books during the right activities. Mindless things that don't take the thinking part of my brain like doing dishes, driving a car, riding a bike, walking. It absolutely can't be background noise or the only thing I'm doing because I'll either zone out or fall asleep.

Driving works for me, though I no longer drive to work so don't listen to podcasts or audiobooks. A colleague suggested playing mindless games on your phone while listening; the minor focus required for the game gives you enough to do without getting distracted.

Simon Tatham's Portable Puzzle Collection for IOS or Android is an excellent collection of games with variable difficulty. I enjoy Galaxies, Net, Inertia, Pearl, Guess, and Untangle the most.

I found that http://0hn0.com works perfectly for this. (Not affiliated, just a fan.)

First of all I only listen at certain times.

Secondly yes I am also at risk of zoning out but not enough to stop listening.

For example on the treadmill at the gym I have to make an effort to follow the plot sometimes, and other times it's so exciting I forget how long I've been there.

The other time I listen to audiobooks is when going to sleep. And then I do zone out, and fall asleep, that's the point. But it has happened that a book was coming to a conclusion or just so exciting that I end up staying awake for an extra hour or two just to hear it.

So it's not for everyone, just like reading isn't for everyone either. But oh man am I happy for audiobooks. I'm giving my old paper books away by the bag to make room.

Try listening after you’ve pushed yourself to exhaustion after intense exercise — body won’t want to do anything but lie there — mind can totally focus on story . Also helps if what your listening to is actually good —- try Andy weirs THE MARTIAN

Same thing happens to me, I have to really pay attention while listening to an audiobook, otherwise I lose the thread.

Also, why are audiobooks 5 times more expensive than their dead-tree version?

https://www.amazon.com/Leviathan-Wakes-James-S-Corey/dp/0316...

https://libro.fm/audiobooks/9781478998938-leviathan-wakes

That's crazy.

It's a production with actors. Sometimes expensive ones. It's surely along the same continuum that explains why a 90 minute movie or season box set is more expensive than the book it's based on that takes weeks to consume. Wouldn't surprise me that consumers value it higher than "just a book."

Another way to look at it: that's 21 hours of content for $35. Doesn't seem crazy compared to, say, going to the movies or buying a $60 video game that might not even have 10 hours of gameplay.

I used to work at Amazon in the physical audiobook publishing world.

For physical audiobooks, most of the NYC publishers priced their audiobooks based on the number of CD's the book would go on. Longer books required more recording and more CD's in a box and would be priced higher. They sold, but not that well because the relative pricing was high. You could see physical audiobook sales crater once a book moved from hardcover to paperback. I did the data analytics and was able to determine the pricing formulas that audiobook publishers were using.

As Hombre said, it is paying for the voice talent and production costs. also it is a much lower volume market so the fixed costs like that are a more significant hit to the price.

Actual printing of books does not cost a lot. the materials are cheap the processes are very efficient at large volumes. That is one reason why ebooks are not always cheaper than the print versions. the print costs are small.

libro.fm audiobooks drop to $15 per book if you use their credits. It's a subscription system like Audible.

Unlike Audible, it's much easier to subscribe and quickly unsubscribe. So if you want to buy a book: (1) Subscribe for $15 to get one credit (2) Use your credit to buy a book (3) Unsubscribe.

BTW, libro.fm is DRM Free.

I think this is a reason to prefer podcasts. I can miss a few minutes of a podcast and not feel lost because they're mostly fluff anyway.

Agreed. I tend to listen to podcasts and still read books. I find the pacing in books to be built around reading them. With the popularity of audio books I wonder how long it will be until we have ‘books’ specifically done and only released for audio. I know some podcasts are close to this, but they are still not as tight as a well edited book.

I would have thought the issue was more that many books have pacing that takes forever when read aloud. (You generally read faster than it takes to read out loud.)

In any case, you may be looking for radio plays. It's sort of a niche these days but it probably takes better advantage of the medium than simply reading fiction does. (I find non-fiction audiobooks to be very hit or miss. You can't have any real dependency on maps, figures, code/equations, etc. and the content has to be simple enough that you can just go through it at a constant linear pace.)

I read books, and listen to them with TTS software. This was I can switch between listening and reading and keep my place.

Try cranking up the replay speed. I usually listen at 1.5x - 2x. Every now and then I'll hit a great book with a good narrator and slow down to listen.

A recent favourite was The Calculating Stars written and narrated by Mary Robinette Kowal, a former puppeteer and long-time podcaster. Her performance was enthralling and fast-paced, so I listed at 1.0x.

I do the same, and listen to most audio books or podcasts at at least 1.33x (this four-thirds factor reduces the listening time by a quarter). A contributing element to determining what speed factor is suitable is what I think of as "information density" in the writing style. With content that requires more digestion, such as The Economist (particularly their more technical articles), I do best processing their excellent audio edition at a simple 1.0x.

Exactly, this is a good point! There are two factors, the baseline speed of the narrator and the complexity of the topic.

Years ago, I attended a Pragmatic Marketing course and the speaker started off by saying he spoke really fast but once you got used to it, you would never be bored or find your mind wandering. I remember that to this day and when I'm speaking in public, I try to keep my pace up.

The problem is that the speed up "breaks" you. Once I started listening to podcasts at higher speeds, I stopped being able to listen to slower-paced podcasts at 1.0x without losing focus.

I usually stick with light subjects that don't require a great deal of concentration. If I get lost I'll just jump back 30 seconds or a minute. I've found that dense books don't work as audiobooks. I need to concentrate too much and reread often.

> Audiobooks just don't work for me, I would continuously zone out.

Try listening with an increased playback speed. Make it slow enough that you can still comprehend the book, but fast enough that it requires constant attention to do so.

I use the zone out to go to sleep at night :-)

But, if I'm walking or driving, it tends to keep my mind more active, alert, and aids my concentration on not only the book, but the walking and driving too.

I have this same issue if I try to listen while stationary. I either zone out or doze off. I listen during long cycling rides and have no problem staying focused.

I constant use the "back 30 seconds" button to rewind and repeat sections where I zoned out. They're still great for long car drives, though.

It takes practice. While learning it helps to listen to light material or books you've read before.

Audiobooks are perfect for car rides, if you zone out just remind 30 seconds or so, works great!