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Re:The forgotten joy of soap by jazoom on Tuesday July 09, 2019 @05:19AM (#20390116)
What you're interpreting as "clean feeling" is likely stripping your skin of its protective oils. That's why we (doctors) don't recommend soaps as a general rule. That oil is there for a reason.
Re:The forgotten joy of soap by stinos on Tuesday July 09, 2019 @07:33AM (#20390753)
Would doctors recommend using nothing at all, just warm water, for e.g. showering or bathing (not talking washing hands after changing diapers or so)? Or why not? It seems to be hard to find actual studies about the effects. In fact I have yet to find one, might be my search skills are lacking. From anecdotal experiments I don't see much difference and no negative effects. I don't like the smell anyway, my skin nor hair seems to care, in fact seems to produce less oil overall probably because it doesn't have to counter removal anymore, and as far as I and close friends can tell my body still smells the same.
Re:The forgotten joy of soap by jazoom on Tuesday July 09, 2019 @07:56AM (#20390883)
In general people should probably bathe less than they do in Western nations. I'm also not aware of any specific studies. Warm water is generally enough, except perhaps in areas that are prone to odour (armpits, groin, etc.).

Bathing is more a social issue than a health issue.

Re:The forgotten joy of soap by fatnoah on Tuesday July 09, 2019 @10:17AM (#20391956)
I have no comment on the original comment's correlation of cessation of soap usage with lack of body odor, but as someone who rides a crowded subway every day in the summer, I'm not sure I want people to experiment with this.
Re:The forgotten joy of soap by Retra on Tuesday July 09, 2019 @12:22PM (#20393445)
People are also unreasonably squeamish toward unpleasant smells. Some things just don't smell great, and that's not actually a problem. It's life, move on.
Re:The forgotten joy of soap by ses1984 on Wednesday July 10, 2019 @12:33AM (#20399165)
No I think most people are the right amount of squeamish around unpleasant smells. It's possible to have good hygiene without using products that are overly irritating or with a large environmental impact.
Re:The forgotten joy of soap by rleigh on Wednesday July 10, 2019 @02:36PM (#20404942)
I think that when your co-workers have such severe BO that it makes your eyes water, that it might be a bit much.
Re:The forgotten joy of soap by mikedilger on Tuesday July 09, 2019 @05:47PM (#20397001)
Yes it does strip the oils, but a proper bar of soap deposits glycerin which acts as a humectant in the same way that those oils do. I've made my own bar soap for many years now and the only dry skin problems I get is the skin on my shins drying out during winter months -- an area that I don't actively wash with soap.

Homemade or clasical bar soap contains glycerin naturally. Commercially made bar soap usually has the glycerin stipped out because they can resell it at a much higher price in cosmetics and skin care products.

Re:The forgotten joy of soap by jazoom on Tuesday July 09, 2019 @07:25PM (#20397800)
Some people smoke for 50 years and never get lung cancer.

Body oils have compounds in them that do things other than act as a simple emollient.

I'm not trying to convince you to change what you're doing. I'm just saying it's not as simple as you're making it out to be.

Re:The forgotten joy of soap by buu700 on Tuesday July 09, 2019 @10:49AM (#20392304)
How big a problem is this if you re-oil afterwards?

I use soap and just apply jojoba oil (and aloe) after showering, which I understand is similar to human oil, but it's unclear to me whether it's truly a good enough 1:1 replacement or if I could be doing some kind of harm longer-term.

Re:The forgotten joy of soap by jazoom on Tuesday July 09, 2019 @03:53PM (#20395895)
I don't know about long term harm but it won't replicate all the effects of natural skin oils. Our oils contain compounds that keep the acidity just right and keep microbes from taking over. We've evolved those oils over a long time.
Re:The forgotten joy of soap by newsbinator on Tuesday July 09, 2019 @05:23AM (#20390132)
What is currently recommended instead of bar soap (e.g. instead of a bar of Dove for sensitive skin)?
Re:The forgotten joy of soap by jazoom on Tuesday July 09, 2019 @05:35AM (#20390177)
I don't know if that Dove bar has soap in it, but there are many non-soap cleansers of varying degrees of harshness. I only know the brands available in Australia.
Re:The forgotten joy of soap by duncanawoods on Tuesday July 09, 2019 @05:53AM (#20390262)
You are right, no soap. It calls itself a "beauty bar" hah! I use it and it certainly doesn't cause the astringent and drying effect I get from real soap.

I tried to find out whether it was actually recommended for the skin and it's an ungoogleable topic infested by a toxic combination of beauty product snake-oil and "chemicals are evil" antivaxish insanity so I'm none the wiser.

Re:The forgotten joy of soap by okcando on Tuesday July 09, 2019 @10:56AM (#20392386)
Dove beauty bars contain soap.

The ingredients list sodium tallowate or sodium palmitate, which are soaps from animal or vegetable fat, respectively.

Re:The forgotten joy of soap by duncanawoods on Tuesday July 09, 2019 @12:46PM (#20393765)
Thanks, yep. They are not the primary ingredients which is probably why they can't call it a soap bar.

Interestingly, the "Palm" in Napalm is also Sodium Palmitate.

Re:The forgotten joy of soap by benj111 on Tuesday July 09, 2019 @05:24PM (#20396772)
But "Dove doesn't dry your skin like soap can" (uk advertising tagline) which would suggest it isn't soap.
Re:The forgotten joy of soap by duncanawoods on Tuesday July 09, 2019 @05:38PM (#20396922)
A theseus ship type issue. As okcando says - it contains fatty acid salts which are what we call soap. However, lots of things contain these without becoming soap e.g. cheese and napalm so... yeah.
Re:The forgotten joy of soap by benj111 on Tuesday July 09, 2019 @06:00PM (#20397102)
charred crusty (but still beautiful) woman turns to face the camera

"Napalm doesn't dry you skin like soap can"

Re:The forgotten joy of soap by geolqued on Tuesday July 09, 2019 @06:14AM (#20390347)
From the ingredients list on the Amazon product listing it contains a number of soaps derived from coconut, palm and tallow (usually beef fat). Sodium X-ate is a soap made from X.
Re:The forgotten joy of soap by stevejb on Tuesday July 09, 2019 @06:13AM (#20390339)
I'm in Australia, can you suggest a few brands?
Re:The forgotten joy of soap by jazoom on Tuesday July 09, 2019 @07:49AM (#20390840)
I use Enya. 1L for $2.99 from Chemist Warehouse. Probably actually has some soapiness in it but claims to be soap-free. Nowhere near as harsh as bar soap. Smells decent. Lathers well. Australian-made.

Wife gets QV Wash, which is less harsh and generally recommended as a gentle cleanser. Expensive, though. Also Australian-made. If you have dry skin, atopic dermatitis, etc. this is what you need.

Cetaphil is in the same section. About as expensive. Doesn't lather as well. Not sure if Australian-made.

Re:The forgotten joy of soap by alexhutcheson on Tuesday July 09, 2019 @10:57AM (#20392391)
Is that recommendation published somewhere? I'd be curious to read the details.
Re:The forgotten joy of soap by elliekelly on Tuesday July 09, 2019 @12:56PM (#20393899)
I don't have any published sources about not using soap but I use Mother Dirt products and my understanding is that nitric oxide ("NO") on the skin has a whole bunch of important functions[1] and a lot of NO on our skin comes from ammonia oxidizing bacteria ("AOB")[2] that colonizes on our skin and eats (metabolizes?) our sweat. In theory, all of our modern hygiene products reduce the AOB (and presumably other "good" bacteria) on our skin and less AOB means less NO.

But all of my knowledge in this area came from someone trying to sell me something so it should be taken with a grain of salt. I'm sure there's a microbiologist somewhere on HN who could explain the relationship between soap/skin microbiome much better.

[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15275864

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrifying_bacteria

Re:The forgotten joy of soap by benj111 on Tuesday July 09, 2019 @05:21PM (#20396741)
"someone trying to sell me something"

What were they selling? Not washing doesn't seem to provide many business opportunities that I can think of. Posies?

Re:The forgotten joy of soap by elliekelly on Tuesday July 09, 2019 @06:01PM (#20397111)
It’s called Mother Dirt[1] they have a line of microbiome friendly personal hygiene products. I only use AO Mist (I think this was the original product) and have been since maybe 2014 or 2015. They’re made in Cambridge, Mass and the original product was developed by (affiliated) bio-tech company AOBiome.

I bought the Mist on a whim after chatting with someone at OpenBiome (AFAIK unaffiliated). I figured I’d try using it instead of face wash for a few months as a little experiment to see how my skin felt.

Well I have lupus so I sometimes get the “butterfly rash” across my cheeks. Anything from hot water to alcohol to a cold can trigger it. I hadn’t even considered that the mist might help with it but I was shockingly and pleasantly surprised that over time the butterfly rash became much more faint so I just kept using it.

It’s entirely possible that it’s the placebo effect but when I get the butterfly rash now it’s imperceptible to anyone who isn’t looking for it. If I were a true scientist I’d stop for a few months and see if if returns with the same intensity but I guess I’m too vain.

[1] https://motherdirt.com/

Re:The forgotten joy of soap by amelius on Tuesday July 09, 2019 @05:28AM (#20390152)
Good point, but what does that mean for the war against plastic gel bottles? From the article:

> Given the war against plastic, maybe there will be a reaction to all these bottles of handwash. The bar of soap might yet stage a resurgence.

Re:The forgotten joy of soap by jazoom on Tuesday July 09, 2019 @05:37AM (#20390188)
My wife (also a doctor) actually started buying some bars for exactly that reason. Unfortunately they were too harsh. It's an unsolved problem, as far as I know.

Once there's enough demand, I'm sure manufacturers will follow the dollars.

Re:The forgotten joy of soap by abainbridge on Tuesday July 09, 2019 @05:51AM (#20390256)
I "solve" this problem by using soap but in smaller amounts. It doesn't need to form a lather.
Re:The forgotten joy of soap by KozmoNau7 on Wednesday July 10, 2019 @12:26PM (#20403480)
I've been very happy with super-fatted soaps and soaps with added shea butter. My favorite so far has been Dudu Osun.
Re:The forgotten joy of soap by kashug on Tuesday July 09, 2019 @07:47AM (#20390831)
It's not common with refills for those bottles? (more often than not the refills are also in some kind of plastic - so not sure how much plastic it saves though)
Re:The forgotten joy of soap by jdmichal on Tuesday July 09, 2019 @10:29AM (#20392080)
Volume increases faster than surface area, so yes buying large refill containers will generally be better.