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Re:Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles by judge2020 on Monday June 17, 2019 @10:38AM (#20203417)
So you can use your preferred maps app in your car, so you can choose music using your favorite music app, so you can send and receive text messages without taking your eyes off the road. Without it, people would just be looking at their phones anyways.

Guess we should go back to paper maps and listening to AM radio.

Re:Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles by narimiran on Monday June 17, 2019 @11:20AM (#20203829)
> so you can send and receive text messages

How about not reading messages while you're driving? And why do you have to write messages while in traffic? Can't this wait?

Re:Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles by bitwalker on Monday June 17, 2019 @12:00PM (#20204301)
The whole point is that you are neither reading or writing them, they are read _to_ you, and you dictate messages if you feel the need to reply while driving, but both can be done with hands on the wheel and eyes on the road. I suppose it is up for debate whether just the act of listening or speaking is distracting enough to be considered a bad thing.
Re:Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles by justinpombrio on Monday June 17, 2019 @01:12PM (#20205099)
It's not up for debate; we have evidence that it's dangerous. The NHTSA says:

"The available research indicates that cell phone use while driving, whether it is a hands-free or hand-held device, degrades a driver’s performance. The driver is more likely to miss key visual and audio cues needed to avoid a crash. Hand-held devices may be slightly worse, but hands-free devices are not risk-free."

Though it doesn't link to any studies and I'm too lazy to go searching, so if you want a primary source you'll have to find it yourself...

https://one.nhtsa.gov/Driving-Safety/Distracted/Policy-State...

Re:Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles by filoleg on Monday June 17, 2019 @01:25PM (#20205261)
>It's not up for debate; we have evidence that it's dangerous.

Just like talking to other people in the car or doing anything else other than driving. I know that I will take a driver getting their messages read out to them over a driver who takes their eyes off the road and glances at the phone. Good is the enemy of the perfect, and I would rather take an attainable good over an unattainable perfect.

Re:Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles by 725686 on Monday June 17, 2019 @02:51PM (#20206156)
... perfect is the enemy of good
Re:Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles by filoleg on Monday June 17, 2019 @03:47PM (#20206624)
Thanks for correcting, I actually appreciate it, no sarcasm. I mentioned it before in one of my HN comments on a thread about language learning, but as a non-native english speaker, it helps me a lot when people correct my mistakes. No matter how small or insignificant the mistakes are, because little by little, they add up.
Re:Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles by gerbilly on Monday June 17, 2019 @01:38PM (#20205405)
> Just like talking to other people in the car

No that's not true, talking to other people int he car is not associated with reduced safety.

Probably because the other people in the car are also partially watching the road.

Re:Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles by viraptor on Monday June 17, 2019 @03:54PM (#20206676)
Re:Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles by MereInterest on Monday June 17, 2019 @03:49PM (#20206636)
Exactly. If I am in the passenger seat talking to the driver, I know when to shut up and let them drive. If I am on the phone talking to a driver, there is no indication of them, say, approaching a difficult merge.
Re:Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles by CamperBob2 on Monday June 17, 2019 @03:55PM (#20206687)
Too bad. People are going to do it anyway, and yes, they want touchscreens to make it happen, not just voice.

Mazda will walk this decision back as soon as they realize how much money it will cost them... which is a lot.

Re:Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles by tetrep on Monday June 17, 2019 @12:42PM (#20204757)
It is. Car conversations are a serious issue with respect to distracted driving. I personally can't handle thinking about driving safely and thinking about a conversation. Humans are famously bad at multi-tasking and I don't see how being in a car gives us magical powers.

I thought I had read a study about talking to people in your car versus drinking, but here's a similar one with talking on a phone versus being drunk: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/16884056/

Re:Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles by celticmusic on Monday June 17, 2019 @01:05PM (#20205030)
If I'm speaking with someone in the car and I detect a potentially dangerous situation, I immediately stop talking to focus.

It's hard to explain, but I would say my attention is unfocused and broad. I don't know if this is ultimately safe, but I've never had an issue with it.

Re:Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles by bestouff on Monday June 17, 2019 @01:27PM (#20205290)
In fact the passenger will also detect the potentially dangerous situation and stop taking focus from you. The person in the phone will not, and may continue to distract you involuntarily.
Re:Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles by ahartmetz on Monday June 17, 2019 @03:52PM (#20206664)
A coworker once told me that that is what makes the difference, based on some study. I immediately believed it because it seemed so reasonable, so not citation...
Re:Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles by c0vfefe on Monday June 17, 2019 @01:54PM (#20205625)
Part of the whole problem with distracted driving is that danger is difficult to predict.
Re:Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles by celticmusic on Monday June 17, 2019 @02:35PM (#20206022)
I've never had a problem with it, but I also don't look at them while driving, and so forth. Maybe I'm the drunk driver who thinks he can totally drive better when he's drunk, but I've been driving 20+ years and never had an issue.

OTOH, I also evaluate and will not talk if I don't feel comfortable (poor road conditions, etc).

Re:Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles by RandallBrown on Monday June 17, 2019 @11:34AM (#20203978)
You're not reading them with CarPlay or Android Auto. The car reads them to you. Also, speech to text writes them. There's no keyboard.
Re:Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles by CaptainZapp on Tuesday June 18, 2019 @02:06AM (#20210143)
This will probably not endear me to the general readerhip, but if it would be up to me.

People caught while texting during driving:

First time offense: Massive fine and three month licence revocation

Second offense: Permanent license revocation. Because you just have proven beyond a doubt that you're either too dumb or too reckless to be allowed to operate deadly machinery.

Phoning while driving is dangerous. Texting while driving is just outrageously stupid and grossly negligent

Re:Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles by TomVDB on Monday June 17, 2019 @03:20PM (#20206395)
He didn't use the words reading and writing...
Re:Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles by empath75 on Monday June 17, 2019 @04:08PM (#20206809)
you don't read them -- they're read to you.
Re:Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles by Izkata on Monday June 17, 2019 @06:46PM (#20208079)
> So you can use your preferred maps app in your car, so you can choose music using your favorite music app,

Get a dock for your phone and use bluetooth for the audio. (Or line-in, except headphone jacks keep disappearing...)

> so you can send and receive text messages without taking your eyes off the road.

Holy fuck no. Don't encourage this. Taking your eyes off the road is only one symptom of the problem. The problem is splitting your attention.

There's a TV show where they demonstrate this most years, Canada's Worst Driver. The challenge is to drive in a circle on a track. Talking on the phone - not ever looking away from the road - is enough to start veering off the track.

Re:Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles by black6 on Monday June 17, 2019 @03:52PM (#20206665)
> Guess we should go back to paper maps

Knowing where you’re going before you take off is generally a good idea. A paper map may not be the solution—pulling up an online map and figuring out your route before getting in your vehicle is one way and what I tend to do.

I routinely see locals plug local destinations into their navigator-of-choice, though, so expecting people to know the lay of the land these days may be a bridge too far. God forbid there is construction or an accident and you have to improvise!

[dead]
Re:Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles by mikestew on Monday June 17, 2019 @11:23AM (#20203861)
You're wasting your lives people!

The fact that some just want some directions to where they're going, and to listen to some music along the way, hardly represents the downfall of civilization. I'll give you credit for avoiding the temptation to break out the ol' "wake up, sheeple!", though.

Re:Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles by gerbilly on Monday June 17, 2019 @01:04PM (#20205022)
> The fact that some just want some directions to where they're going, and to listen to some music along the way, hardly represents the downfall of civilization.

Yeah, but on the directions front, it does represent a big loss in self efficacy. I don't rely on GPS, even when travelling to foreign countries.

I know people who don't even know the cities they live in. They are living in the phone's world itself, you could say.

Re:Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles by Johnny555 on Monday June 17, 2019 @02:17PM (#20205875)
On the other hand, the security of a smartphone with maps that cover the world have opened up self-guided international travel to people that may have otherwise limited themselves to guided tours.

I just took a sibling on her first non-guided international trip a couple years ago -- her fear was always getting lost in a strange city, but when she found out how easily her cell phone would help her navigate the city streets and transit systems, she's been on two trips on her own since then and enjoys the freedom of being able to explore on her own with much less worry of getting lost.

Of course, she could lose or break her phone, but then she's no worse off them if she lost a paper map, she'd have to ask for directions, take a cab, or find a new map, but the cell phone gives her the freedom to explore at her own pace.

Re:Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles by Johnny555 on Monday June 17, 2019 @11:20AM (#20203830)
10 years ago we still had in-car GPS's, but instead of being an app it was a standalone device, I don't see how that makes anything better.

Having my car read a SMS from my wife reminding me to pick up eggs from the store on the way home hardly seems like being a zombie.

We survived without a lot of things we have now that we didn't have 10, or even 100 years ago, but that doesn't mean we were better off without them.

Re:Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles by magduf on Monday June 17, 2019 @12:48PM (#20204831)
I remember driving before GPS: there was tons of time and gasoline wasted driving in circles looking for things, getting lost, pulling over and trying to make sense of a paper map that doesn't have that much resolution, asking people for directions and getting useless and wrong directions, etc. It was a total pain in the ass.

I also remember life before cellphones. You couldn't communicate with people when you were en-route, so you didn't find out until you got there that something was canceled, or you needed to get something on the way, or were meeting somewhere else, etc. So again, lots of wasted time and gas.

I'm surprised people with this luddite mentality don't tell us that we should all just go back to writing letters, because things were so great back before we could have real-time conversations over a long distance...

Re:Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles by celticmusic on Monday June 17, 2019 @01:07PM (#20205055)
I don't think people are arguing that cell phones and technology is bad, just cautioning for moderation.
Re:Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles by Johnny555 on Monday June 17, 2019 @02:05PM (#20205726)
I don't think people are arguing that cell phones and technology is bad, just cautioning for moderation.

Some people are:

I'd argue that life is worse since smartphones were invented, on many axes.

and:

Now almost everyone has been turned into a phone zombie. You're wasting your lives people!

Re:Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles by gerbilly on Monday June 17, 2019 @02:24PM (#20205921)
Yeah that's me quoted above, and yes arguing against smartphones.

I believe smartphones are a net loss to people's happiness.

All of these liberating technologies are fun for the early adopters, but then become oppressive once you are expected to have them. We are quickly reaching that point.

What they really are are surveillance transponders that we carry around voluntarily.

Re:Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles by Johnny555 on Monday June 17, 2019 @04:26PM (#20206969)
The privacy issues are real, but you're only a slave to the device if you want to be (or you let others force you to be).

Where you see oppression, I see convenience.

If I'm on vacation and forgot to turn the thermostat down before leaving, I can use an app on my phone to do so remotely.

If there's a cold spell and the furnace fails, that same app will notify me when the house gets too cold so I can find someone to go check on it.

My wife can add (or remove) items to the shopping list while I'm already at the store.

When I'm at the doctor and want to confirm what drug I'm taking, I can bring up my online account from the pharmacy.

When I'm on the bus home and watch to finish reading the book I was reading at home on my eReader, I can bring up that book on the app on my phone -- and it will start up on the page where I stopped reading last night.

I do have my work email delivered to my phone, but I turned notifications off -- I only see a work email if I intentionally look for it.

I do have a notification app from work installed on my phone that can notify me 24 hours a day when I'm on call, but even that is more convenient from when I carried a pager and only got a numeric page so I couldn't tell whether or not it was something that had to be dealt with immediately or could wait until I got home later -- I'd have to dial-in to find out (and I had to literally dial-in on a physical phone line since in those days my phone wasn't a hotspot that can give me internet access anywhere, or I can just check on the service with my smartphone instead of having to get out my laptop)

There are lots of ways the phone makes my life more convenient.

Re:Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles by gerbilly on Monday June 17, 2019 @11:55AM (#20204243)
It doesn't immediately mean we're better off with them either.

I'd argue that life is worse since smartphones were invented, on many axes.

The privacy implications alone far outweigh the benefits.

Re:Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles by Broken_Hippo on Monday June 17, 2019 @03:21PM (#20206409)
Years ago I had to carry a bunch of crap with me.

I had to take time to check email instead of simply looking when I get the message on my phone. I had to take a magazine to the toilet instead of reading on my phone.

I wore watches. They never lasted as long as the phone. I used to have alarm clocks too. The phones actually do better to wake me since a lot of alarm ringtones vary in sounds.

Gameboys and other portable gaming devices have been a thing for some time.

I actually carried around pen and paper when I went to the grocery store! When I was poor, I also took a calculator.

I used to have a portable television. It was black and white and possibly had a smaller screen than current phones. It definitely had poorer definition and one was lucky to pick up channels with the antennae.

Instead of arguing about who is correct about something, we can look it up in a restaurant. It is cool, and makes the conversation less about who is right and wrong and more about what is and could be.

Do you remember landlines? Wasn't it just wonderful that one couldn't have a private conversation at home? Would you seriously trade texting and/or having a private phone number for a house phone of old?

My niece carries my sister's phone around the house on video to talk to me. It dosn't matter that they are in Seattle and me in Norway.

I have a camera with me all the time and picture processing costs nothing! Do you have any clue how much I wanted that as a kid? I loved taking pictures, but couldn't afford film developing. As a bonus, my phone takes better pictures than many of the old cameras I've used. I happen to take pictures of manhole covers when I'm out, at least when I can make them interesting.

I share my artwork, that I make on paper, on the internet using my phone.

I have access to so many things. Lots of people can teach themselves "adulting" now, especially cooking. On their phone. Before I had my tablet, I used my phone in the kitchen.

Wasting life? No. You just aren't seeing the joy these piece of technology bring to others and disregarding the things the phone has replaced.

Re:Mazda is purging touchscreens from its vehicles by TurkTurkleton on Monday June 17, 2019 @11:31AM (#20203952)
Ten years ago was 2009, dude. I definitely had an Android phone and used apps for navigation and music back then. In my car, even! Just via an aux cable instead of Bluetooth and Android Auto. (Of course, now I have a Mazda 3 and an iPhone and I use CarPlay...)