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Re:Facebook’s New Cryptocurrency Gets Big Backers by superkuh on Thursday June 13, 2019 @11:49PM (#20180455)
Is it really a cryptocurrency when it's completely centralized? No. This is just Facebook-bucks. Store dollars. It's has absolutely none of the benefits of a real cryptocurrency.
Re:Facebook’s New Cryptocurrency Gets Big Backers by pjc50 on Friday June 14, 2019 @05:38AM (#20181639)
> Facebook-bucks

Missed opportunity to call them "Marks", although maybe only German speakers will get the joke.

Re:Facebook’s New Cryptocurrency Gets Big Backers by stillworks on Friday June 14, 2019 @10:02AM (#20183065)
With all due respect to nations' currency names... can I but recommend "Douche Mark" in this instance ?
Re:Facebook’s New Cryptocurrency Gets Big Backers by Terretta on Friday June 14, 2019 @06:22AM (#20181824)
Get it but “Facebook Zucks” has a doubly tongue in cheek ring to it.
Re:Facebook’s New Cryptocurrency Gets Big Backers by turtlecloud on Friday June 14, 2019 @06:26AM (#20181840)
Word on the blockchain is that the crypto people are calling them “Zuck Bucks”
Re:Facebook’s New Cryptocurrency Gets Big Backers by dumbfounder on Friday June 14, 2019 @10:32AM (#20183313)
Well Zuck me.
Re:Facebook’s New Cryptocurrency Gets Big Backers by dang on Friday June 14, 2019 @01:18PM (#20184699)
Not here, please.
Re:Facebook’s New Cryptocurrency Gets Big Backers by Nursie on Friday June 14, 2019 @06:42AM (#20181889)
I'd have just gone straight for "Facebucks"!
Re:Facebook’s New Cryptocurrency Gets Big Backers by waterhouse on Friday June 14, 2019 @08:01AM (#20182244)
One could shorten it even further and create a valid context for saying "I have no fucks to give" and similar.
Re:Facebook’s New Cryptocurrency Gets Big Backers by ionised on Friday June 14, 2019 @12:30PM (#20184291)
FaceFucks?
Re:Facebook’s New Cryptocurrency Gets Big Backers by diftraku on Friday June 14, 2019 @12:26PM (#20184256)
Gives new meaning to "pay with your face"
Re:Facebook’s New Cryptocurrency Gets Big Backers by andreygrehov on Friday June 14, 2019 @09:39AM (#20182859)
I call it Zuckerbucks.
Re:Facebook’s New Cryptocurrency Gets Big Backers by ionised on Friday June 14, 2019 @12:30PM (#20184288)
Or just FaceBucks
Re:Facebook’s New Cryptocurrency Gets Big Backers by DonHopkins on Friday June 14, 2019 @09:42AM (#20182893)
Mark's?
Re:Facebook’s New Cryptocurrency Gets Big Backers by jjtheblunt on Friday June 14, 2019 @09:48AM (#20182948)
like the German Deutschmark
Re:Facebook’s New Cryptocurrency Gets Big Backers by DonHopkins on Friday June 14, 2019 @10:02AM (#20183064)
No, I mean like "Mark's Bucks". As in Mark Zuckerberg.
Re:Facebook’s New Cryptocurrency Gets Big Backers by wtmt on Friday June 14, 2019 @10:34AM (#20183321)
If a new "coin" is created every minute, it could be referred to as "There's a Zucker born every minute."
Re:Facebook’s New Cryptocurrency Gets Big Backers by SI_Rob on Friday June 14, 2019 @10:02AM (#20183057)
Well there's also Dunning-Krugerrands, but that's already been taken
Re:Facebook’s New Cryptocurrency Gets Big Backers by max76 on Friday June 14, 2019 @05:48AM (#20181676)
Is this a joke about fiat currencies and their tendency to suddenly become valueless and cryptocurrencies tendency to suddenly become valueless by making a cross language pun connecting the owner of a new cryptocurrency and the name of a currency most famously known for a hyperinflation.
Re:Facebook’s New Cryptocurrency Gets Big Backers by mtmail on Friday June 14, 2019 @06:18AM (#20181800)
Papiermark (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Papiermark) pre 1924 was the hyperinflated currency, then followed the stable Reichsmark and after World War II Deutsch Mark and East Deutsch Mark. Deutsch Mark remained until 2002 when the Euro got introduced. For Germans Mark is just a name for currency like Kronas (Sweden), Francs (France), Lira (Italy). Hyperinflation is too long ago to remember.
Re:Facebook’s New Cryptocurrency Gets Big Backers by tin7in on Friday June 14, 2019 @06:34AM (#20181869)
> Hyperinflation is too long ago to remember.

Germans use cash much more than the average Western European. The memory of hyperinflation and bank system collapse is one of the explanations why people prefer to store value in currency (often foreign currency) and not trust so much a bank or card issuer.

Re:Facebook’s New Cryptocurrency Gets Big Backers by majewsky on Friday June 14, 2019 @06:59AM (#20181966)
Also, in West Germany, the Deutsche Mark (1948-2002) is strongly associated with the post-war economic boom. It's still a common rhetoric among conservative populists to argue for a return to the good old times ^W Mark.
Re:Facebook’s New Cryptocurrency Gets Big Backers by new2628 on Friday June 14, 2019 @08:38AM (#20182448)
I don't think it is just a "common rhetoric", but rather a common mainstream truth that the change from the Mark to the Euro (which can be kept weaker) allows German companies to export cheaply while making people's salaries and savings worth less.
Re:Facebook’s New Cryptocurrency Gets Big Backers by bubbleRefuge on Friday June 14, 2019 @11:04AM (#20183569)
I think Hyperinflation fears are ingrained into EU policymakers DNA. They are so afraid to create demand in the macro economy via deficit spending because of the legacy of the Weimar Republic and what it led to. Looking at the WR case, they had to pay war reparations in hard currency not fiat. Because of this, you have Germany pushing for very dovish fiscal policy limits on Greece and the PIGS. And to make things worse, monetary policy, doesn't work even with negative interest rates.
Re:Facebook’s New Cryptocurrency Gets Big Backers by Nursie on Friday June 14, 2019 @06:42AM (#20181888)
The Deutsche Mark in the mind of most Europeans (who pre-date the Euro themselves) was the most stable and strongest currency in Europe.
Re:Facebook’s New Cryptocurrency Gets Big Backers by CaptainZapp on Friday June 14, 2019 @09:12AM (#20182646)
Well, there was (and still is) the Swiss Frank. Nordic currencies and Dutch Gilderr were also going pretty strong.
Re:Facebook’s New Cryptocurrency Gets Big Backers by ChainOfFools on Friday June 14, 2019 @12:06AM (#20180507)
there seems to be a desire, arising from confusion and encouraged by opportunism, to conflate the term cryptocurrency with conventional notions of electronic cash.

I've listened to people from the world bank, the IDB and at least one representative of a central bank explain to me with enthusiasm how their pet crypto and blockchain projects were creating new opportunities for their organizations. There's always some crypto consultant lurking in the background of these conversations.

Re:Facebook’s New Cryptocurrency Gets Big Backers by askmike on Friday June 14, 2019 @05:17AM (#20181529)
Having done different projects both in the public and private blockchain space, I believe the majority of the confusion comes from almost no one actually understanding the point of something like Bitcoin. While it's clear for IT people to look at a Paypal like system and point to the obvious central point of failure (the company behind it, the website "paypal.com', etc), almost no one outside of IT understands decentralization and why someone would want it.

Especially after learning all the downsides you get with these kind of distributed systems (slow finality, low throughput, limited in capabilities, inefficient, open to new attack vectors).

Re:Facebook’s New Cryptocurrency Gets Big Backers by max76 on Friday June 14, 2019 @05:53AM (#20181702)
> almost no one outside of IT understands decentralization and why someone would want it

I've talked to economist and political scientist that understood the implications of trading without central banks very well.

Re:Facebook’s New Cryptocurrency Gets Big Backers by askmike on Friday June 14, 2019 @06:17AM (#20181797)
Good point. I was wrong in generalizing it into "IT people". Nevertheless the amount of people who get the pros of decentralization is too small.
Re:Facebook’s New Cryptocurrency Gets Big Backers by colechristensen on Friday June 14, 2019 @05:24AM (#20181566)
At that point and in so many circumstances the crypto part is ultimately just a different kind of database. Databases and protocols are just boring... At least from the perspective of the person using the currency.

In general, who cares how Chase keeps track of my checking account? It might have this feature or that feature but when it is being used as it is there isn't much to be excited about. If you're Chase it might make life a little easier to choose one thing or the other but the rest of the world probably doesn't care.

Re:Facebook’s New Cryptocurrency Gets Big Backers by jhabdas on Friday June 14, 2019 @05:39AM (#20181644)
Who cares? You should. Bitcoin offers a public audit trail less commonly known as triple-entry bookkeeping or momentum accounting. Chase still uses double entry.

What's more Chase charges $25 per month to keep an open checking account, keeps only a small portion of your funds on hand and may both lock you out of your account and freeze your funds on a whim whereas Bitcoin won't.

Re:Facebook’s New Cryptocurrency Gets Big Backers by colechristensen on Friday June 14, 2019 @05:57AM (#20181721)
I'd rather not have the entire planet be able to audit my transactions.

I don't care what Chase does with my dollars because the promise isn't that there's a vault somewhere that a banker can point to a pile of bills and say "that's Cole's money right there." The promise is that at any time I can withdraw any amount of money, and o have no problem believing that promise.

As for locking my account on a whim, that's what I signed up for. Every time so far I have had a financial account locked it has been because someone who wasn't me was trying to use my money. As for avoiding being punished for crime well I'm not too into money laundering so I think I'll be ok. Otherwise it's balancing the risk that the bank will make a fixable mistake with the existing system which has the ability to fix errors and reverse thefts.

The public audit trail has yet to return thousands of my dollars from mtgox. I bet if there was massive fraud and or theft of the reserves at Chase that I would have had my money back immediately.

(I don't actually have a checking account at Chase)

Re:Facebook’s New Cryptocurrency Gets Big Backers by pjc50 on Friday June 14, 2019 @06:34AM (#20181871)
> Chase charges $25 per month to keep an open checking account

This is just a ""feature"" of the backwards American system, plenty of countries still mostly have free current accounts. Although the very low interest rates are definitely putting pressure on banks to try to find ways to charge people.

Re:Facebook’s New Cryptocurrency Gets Big Backers by Nursie on Friday June 14, 2019 @06:46AM (#20181908)
Having a bank also means having security, reversibility and a whole host of other great things. Bitcoin cannot compete on this.
Re:Facebook’s New Cryptocurrency Gets Big Backers by akdfd on Friday June 14, 2019 @09:18AM (#20182690)
Cash can't do those things either. It would be relatively easy to have a regulated bitcoin bank that offers such services. Coinbase is heading that way.
Re:Facebook’s New Cryptocurrency Gets Big Backers by Nursie on Friday June 14, 2019 @10:06AM (#20183100)
Presumably that wouldn't fit with any of the demands of cryptocurrency enthusiasts though, being able to freeze your funds etc. Also I'm not sure how they would tackle reversing any fraud given that bitcoin is amazingly irreversible.

If cryptocurrency is, for you, a way to get away from the abusive dominance of banks, why would you use such a service?

Re:Facebook’s New Cryptocurrency Gets Big Backers by akdfd on Friday June 14, 2019 @01:27PM (#20184782)
I fail to see what point you're trying to make here.

If you want to use a bitcoin bank you can. If you don't then you don't have to and can self custody.

You have the choice to do either. Which is not the case with electronic claims on fiat money, as they require a bank counterparty.

Re:Facebook’s New Cryptocurrency Gets Big Backers by Nursie on Friday June 14, 2019 @02:16PM (#20185275)
> I fail to see what point you're trying to make here.

Then try looking at the post I responded to?

Your responses to me seem kinda pointless here.

"Crypto is great because banks suck" "I'm ok with banks, therefore this isn't a need I have"

Then you come along and tell me crypto can maybe act like a bank. So what?

Re:Facebook’s New Cryptocurrency Gets Big Backers by divbyzer0 on Friday June 14, 2019 @05:42AM (#20181655)
This smells of identity verification. They offer a payment mechanism which needs to be legally compliant.

Bingo! Social credit system with verified ID.

The crypto part is just to make sound hip.

Re:Facebook’s New Cryptocurrency Gets Big Backers by narrator on Friday June 14, 2019 @08:17AM (#20182320)
When you get banned from Facebook for talking about whatever you can't buy or sell on the Internet anymore because you don't carry "the Mark". They are a private company so they can deal with whomever they want. You can still use cash. These tech companies want it so that if they ban you they can really screw up your life. Just look at people who have their whole Google existence wiped out because of some random policy violation.
Re:Facebook’s New Cryptocurrency Gets Big Backers by netsharc on Friday June 14, 2019 @10:40AM (#20183369)
It's called "cloud feudalism". Amazing how accurate that term is, during feudal times, the king was free to change their terms, and if you disagreed you could shut up or get out of the kingdom, which was a difficult process and meant cutting off ties with people and business partners (or letting them know about your change of address). And if the king said "You, you did something I disliked, out!", you could protest all you want but that would fall mostly on deaf ears.

Of course "deaf ears" is nowadays support emails being handled by copy-pasting bots.

Re:Facebook’s New Cryptocurrency Gets Big Backers by pjc50 on Friday June 14, 2019 @06:35AM (#20181873)
WeChat payment for westerners.
Re:Facebook’s New Cryptocurrency Gets Big Backers by tuesdayrain on Friday June 14, 2019 @07:30AM (#20182086)
If it's a currency and is implemented using cryptographic concepts, I feel comfortable calling it a cryptocurrency. "Decentralization" is a spectrum and a highly subjective one, so I don't think it should be a requirement.
Re:Facebook’s New Cryptocurrency Gets Big Backers by xtracto on Friday June 14, 2019 @08:18AM (#20182326)
Indeed nowadays a lot of people relate the word 'crypto' with Blockchain related concepts, but being crypto only entails using some cryptographic concepts.

Cryptocommunication might be nothing but HTTPS/TLS. Cryptocurrency could very well be something similar, without involving Blockchain technology.

Re:Facebook’s New Cryptocurrency Gets Big Backers by rakoo on Friday June 14, 2019 @10:05AM (#20183095)
In that case I can say that I'm doing my groceries with a cryptocurrency, because the transaction is encrypted between the terminal and the bank. That doesn't make any sense.
Re:Facebook’s New Cryptocurrency Gets Big Backers by AlexCoventry on Friday June 14, 2019 @12:01AM (#20180490)
Is the ledger public and irrepudiable, at least? That'd be something,I guess.
Re:Facebook’s New Cryptocurrency Gets Big Backers by buboard on Friday June 14, 2019 @11:10AM (#20183615)
Can it be exchanged in binance for bitcoin? If yes, and this gets a lot of users, then it s a huge deal, centralized or not. (And yeah it is cryptocurrency as long as it is based in Cryptography )
Re:Facebook’s New Cryptocurrency Gets Big Backers by magnamerc on Friday June 14, 2019 @12:18PM (#20184195)
It'll likely be an ERC20 token. So maybe people should be exchanging them for ETH.
Re:Facebook’s New Cryptocurrency Gets Big Backers by yesforwhat on Friday June 14, 2019 @06:00AM (#20181730)
> Is it really a cryptocurrency when it's completely centralized? No.

What is decentralized about a handful of Chinese miners controlling all supply?

Re:Facebook’s New Cryptocurrency Gets Big Backers by extropy on Friday June 14, 2019 @06:11AM (#20181779)
That there is a well established (if expensive) method to re-take the decentralized control should things go south.

Same for open source software, the best pieces are generally run by a no-nonsense autocrats.

Re:Facebook’s New Cryptocurrency Gets Big Backers by emiliobumachar on Friday June 14, 2019 @07:11AM (#20182011)
Could you please expand? If the big Chinese miners go rogue (actually go rogue, take over a currency and actively tries to stop the larger public from taking it back), what recourse does the larger public have? Wouldn't they need more mining power, or an impractical fenced-off network that's still decentralized in some manner?
Re:Facebook’s New Cryptocurrency Gets Big Backers by magnamerc on Friday June 14, 2019 @12:16PM (#20184177)
The only benefit I see is that it'll likely be an ERC20 token which means more gas payed to Ethereum (which is great). Also, it'll essentially be a fiat on-ramp for billions of people looking to get into real cryptocurrencies. Assuming they allow the token to be traded on crypto exchanges anyway.
Re:Facebook’s New Cryptocurrency Gets Big Backers by coolspot on Friday June 14, 2019 @12:25PM (#20184247)
I don’t think FB will use Ethereum or any other existing cryptocurrency. They would want full control and there is no reason not to run own blockchain. Also environmental impact of Ethereum mining is bad PR for Facebook.
Re:Facebook’s New Cryptocurrency Gets Big Backers by c0wb0yc0d3r on Friday June 14, 2019 @12:22AM (#20180560)
I can't read the article in it's entirety but decentralisation is not what makes a crypto currency a crypto currency. Visa, Master card, Joe shmoe, anyone can start a centralized ledger that uses crypto.
Re:Facebook’s New Cryptocurrency Gets Big Backers by colordrops on Friday June 14, 2019 @12:32AM (#20180603)
What sort of crypto? Just hiding the ledger behind SSL or encrypting the data is not what makes the "crypto" in cryptocurrency.
Re:Facebook’s New Cryptocurrency Gets Big Backers by glitchc on Friday June 14, 2019 @09:14AM (#20182662)
Neither does calling it crypto, which stands for cryptography. Call it distributed ledger technology or blockchain for specific popular variations.
Re:Facebook’s New Cryptocurrency Gets Big Backers by colordrops on Friday June 14, 2019 @11:39AM (#20183852)
Unlike a centralized ledger, a distributed ledger could not exist without cryptography.
Re:Facebook’s New Cryptocurrency Gets Big Backers by SI_Rob on Friday June 14, 2019 @10:49AM (#20183459)
I would strongly disagree here. Decentralization, though a term fraught with poorly acknowledged and contradictory premises, is essentially the defining value proposition of cryptocurrency.

Take away decentralization (which I would be more comfortable calling "aspirational decentralization" to reflect actual practice) and cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from conventional electronic currency.

Re:Facebook’s New Cryptocurrency Gets Big Backers by magnamerc on Friday June 14, 2019 @12:24PM (#20184237)
Well, Nakamoto consensus or practical byzantine fault tolerance is decentralization. It's literally how groups of nodes come to consensus.
Re:Facebook’s New Cryptocurrency Gets Big Backers by root_axis on Friday June 14, 2019 @12:02AM (#20180492)
It's as good as any ICO; exercising control isn't good for businesses, but Buterin has shown he can make it happen if the stakes are big enough, just like Zuck will also be able to do.
Re:Facebook’s New Cryptocurrency Gets Big Backers by RexetBlell on Friday June 14, 2019 @12:03AM (#20180497)
The fact that Ethereum Classic exists proves that Buterin has no control.
Re:Facebook’s New Cryptocurrency Gets Big Backers by root_axis on Friday June 14, 2019 @12:21AM (#20180553)
No it doesn't. ETC is worth something like 2% of the value of ETH, it's a joke in comparison. Besides, the existence of "Ethereum Classic" is not something special, it's the inevitable side effect of suddenly having the balance of your ETH wallet "cloned" in a fork, you only have to lose if you don't treat both wallets like they're real.
Re:Facebook’s New Cryptocurrency Gets Big Backers by xtracto on Friday June 14, 2019 @08:20AM (#20182343)
But if the market did not like the new direction, it was super easy to move to ETC.

Just like with the OpenOffice, LibreOffice fork. Everyone was free to use one or the other. The community chose.

Re:Facebook’s New Cryptocurrency Gets Big Backers by root_axis on Friday June 14, 2019 @05:34PM (#20186845)
> The community chose

The "community" chose to roll back a $40 million transaction that was very inconvenient for Vitalik. If he had instead said "code is law, and we stand by it" then ETC would never have existed in the first place. My point is, it was Vitalik's prerogative to reverse a million dollar transaction that he didn't like, a privilege reserved for the elite.

Beyond that, the community didn't really have a choice either way. By definition of owning ETH you are incentivized to (primarily) support whichever chain the creator says he will continue to support. What kind of choice is that? There is no "market" in the sense you speak of, ETH users are a captive audience.

Re:Facebook’s New Cryptocurrency Gets Big Backers by xorcist on Friday June 14, 2019 @06:01PM (#20187013)
It's important to keep in mind that the creators of ETH gave themselves an order of magnitude more coins to start with than will ever be mined. While it is true that some of it has been sold many times over by now, it still creates a power dynamic within the community which can hardly be ignored.

It's especially problematic for a project that was supposed to be PoS, where the coin holders are also the miners, with the privileges that brings.

Re:Facebook’s New Cryptocurrency Gets Big Backers by celticninja on Friday June 14, 2019 @08:00AM (#20182240)
The existence of ETC says to me that ETH has the same problem, that is a bunch of power users can change the rules if they want to (if it is financially beneficial for them to do so). No different to a fiat currency controlled by the government.
Re:Facebook’s New Cryptocurrency Gets Big Backers by magnamerc on Friday June 14, 2019 @12:27PM (#20184261)
Yeah that's just wrong. If you want to change the rules, you need to update the client software which means forking. Are you saying that a group of core devs can fork the chain and not have it be contentious?
Re:Facebook’s New Cryptocurrency Gets Big Backers by celticninja on Friday June 14, 2019 @06:34PM (#20187225)
That's what happened with Ethereum.