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Re:Game Builder: Create 3D games with friends, no experience... by elil17 on Thursday June 13, 2019 @11:01PM (#20180300)
It’s a shame that making simple games doesn’t require coding like it used to. For myself, and a lot of others I’m sure, games were a huge motivator to teach myself programming. Now kids won’t be as motivated to do that
Re:Game Builder: Create 3D games with friends, no experience... by jakelazaroff on Friday June 14, 2019 @12:00AM (#20180487)
Why gatekeep though? If we make it easy for people to make games, who cares if they end up learning to program?

No one actually cares about the code in the games they play. Programming should be a means, not the end. (See also: https://prog21.dadgum.com/87.html)

Re:Game Builder: Create 3D games with friends, no experience... by munchbunny on Friday June 14, 2019 @12:21AM (#20180558)
I would have killed to have tools like Unity when I got into game programming. All of my hobby time was eaten up trying to wrangle OpenGL and C++ and crappy open source engines, and cobbling together a shitty physics engine, so I never got around to the actual game part. When I went back years later to prototype ideas in Unity, it was a breath of fresh air.

However, in my struggles to get off the ground, I did learn a lot more about font rendering than I ever wanted to, and it has come up unexpectedly useful.

Re:Game Builder: Create 3D games with friends, no experience... by 0xfeba on Friday June 14, 2019 @09:20AM (#20182704)
> I would have killed to have tools like Unity when I got into game programming. All of my hobby time was eaten up trying to wrangle OpenGL and C++ and crappy open source engines, and cobbling together a shitty physics engine, so I never got around to the actual game part.

I'm still in that boat, and I am an 8 YoE "Software Engineer". I recently got into boardgame.io library (also made by a Googler, coincidentally) and it is a fantastic library.

I've attempted to make min-max CLI board game simulations before but failed. Also tried (still somewhat active) to make a 2D artillery game and got close, but just kept getting bogged down in framework (actually migrating from framework to framework) and other chores. Currently it uses LibGDX.

With this boardgame lib I just wrote game logic. It was fun, for a change! Plus it has multiplayer and integrates with React really well for a UI so it's actually useful.

I just wanted the CLI boardgame sims to find the best moves/races in games I play IRL. With this I can actually have other people play and maybe show it off at some point.

Re:Game Builder: Create 3D games with friends, no experience... by tomcam on Friday June 14, 2019 @03:03AM (#20181041)
Wait, you can’t leave us hanging about how font rendering was unexpectedly useful. What kind of fonts did you deal with later in life and why?
Re:Game Builder: Create 3D games with friends, no experience... by munchbunny on Friday June 14, 2019 @03:46AM (#20181172)
It's not that exciting of a story. ;)

I had to write my own font rendering code for lack of much in the way of general purpose libraries for doing it in 3-D engines back around 2005. Your options were, more or less, to pay through the nose for Scaleform, to roll your own, or to use something really ugly. So I had to learn some basic typography to tie Freetype into a text rendering engine, which got me practical experience with editing font files, anti-aliasing, hinting, kerning, processing digraphs, Unicode, the works.

Web 2.0 started more or less right after that, so interest in digital typography in general exploded. I ended up working on some applications of text layout in non-left-to-right and pictograph languages for 2D canvas, SVG, and web based image manipulation in general. So out of sheer coincidence my hobby work messing with OpenGL/Freetype was suddenly directly relevant.

Re:Game Builder: Create 3D games with friends, no experience... by tomcam on Saturday June 15, 2019 @12:11AM (#20188355)
pretty exciting to me. lots of interesting projects. thanks for sharing.
Re:Game Builder: Create 3D games with friends, no experience... by pharrington on Thursday June 13, 2019 @11:19PM (#20180362)
Quite the contrary - tools like these kinds of gamemaker programs, which factor out knowledge -that previously required a huge amount of individual energy expense- into the social domain, make that strong visceral+interactive portion of computer art more likely to be experienced by more people, leading to the greater likelihood of wanting to learn how to go deeper into those experiences teased by the gamemaker programs. The obvious analogy is how the usefulness of view-source in the earlier days of the internet lead more people into pursuing programming than when you needed some sole purpose programing language compiler or interpreter to see the power of computer code in action.

More people being able to do more stuff is just better. Gatekeeping is rubbish.

Re:Game Builder: Create 3D games with friends, no experience... by raidicy on Thursday June 13, 2019 @11:12PM (#20180339)
It still could introduce people to logical thinking. For me when I was kid I was too stupid and gave up too easily to code anything. It felt like an impossible task to learn everything to even get the basics up and running. And it was my dream to make games as a child. Even modding felt like magic beyond my grasp. I couldn't even make a game with RPGMAKER. Maybe this will help someone like my kid-self find that with a little bit of time they can do it.
Re:Game Builder: Create 3D games with friends, no experience... by krapp on Friday June 14, 2019 @09:19AM (#20182697)
But more kids are writing more code now than ever before, there are books on it and classes on it and video series and coding literacy is actually a cultural movement (maybe driven by a need to depress wages by oversaturating the market,) multiple game creation frameworks and the modding scene which is huge. Motivation is clearly not a problem.

And the sort of simple games that don't require coding in these frameworks are the sort of simple games that no one wants to make and no one wants to play anymore. Sure, you can make breakout or pong or a really, really terrible shooter[0] with just the GUI, but kids who want to "make games" don't want those, they want to make the next Minecraft or Fortnite or MOBA or whatever, which means they're going to have to learn to code eventually.

Not everyone has to start with helloworld.c and learning how to write their own renderer from scratch nowadays. But if and when they do want to learn to write code, then they have far more and better options available than previous generations, from asset packs and templates to Handmade Hero and everything in between.

[0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZqGTzuVGjA

Re:Game Builder: Create 3D games with friends, no experience... by jordank on Thursday June 13, 2019 @11:07PM (#20180318)
“You can build your own cards with Javascript. Game Builder comes with an extensive API that allows you to script almost everything in the game. All the code is live, so just make a change and save it, no compiling required.”
Re:Game Builder: Create 3D games with friends, no experience... by a-saleh on Friday June 14, 2019 @02:26AM (#20180928)
My friend got into programming by modding Warcraft 3 maps.

In the beginning he was just dragging and dropping random units to the map.

In the end he was quite proficcient in the embedded script editor.

Re:Game Builder: Create 3D games with friends, no experience... by RenRav on Friday June 14, 2019 @02:39AM (#20180966)
This was true for me as well, before I even learned what programming was, I was already creating custom maps and making scripts through trial and error and lots of visits to google and the wc3 forums. It was nostalgic many years later learning "real" programming as an adult. I think it was a good learning experience and I sure had fun with it.
Re:Game Builder: Create 3D games with friends, no experience... by dwags on Friday June 14, 2019 @01:02PM (#20184546)
'triggers' were recently resurrected by the new Overwatch map editor basically just drop down boxes with 100's of conditions... I just don't have the patience when I know I could write this code myself If I actually knew the API
Re:Game Builder: Create 3D games with friends, no experience... by dangoor on Thursday June 13, 2019 @11:06PM (#20180316)
I don’t know... this seems likely easy to get going, but limited by the cards. And then you can jump to JS, so it may be a good gateway?
Re:Game Builder: Create 3D games with friends, no experience... by oscilloscope on Thursday June 13, 2019 @11:12PM (#20180338)
The block-based visual programming system also looks similar to Scratch. I think kids still pick up valuable experience with basic logic, side-effects and weird cases like non-terminating loops.

I met a 10-year-old who made a cat-and-mouse game with Scratch. He was thrilled to explain to me that in a previous version of his game, touching the mouse would do infinite damage. He needed to throttle the damage function to 10 times/sec to get reasonable scores.

Re:Game Builder: Create 3D games with friends, no experience... by cwyers on Friday June 14, 2019 @12:48AM (#20180662)
Looking at the examples in there -- what exactly in that is simple to you? It's fully 3D, which is hard as fuck.

I learned a lot of skills doing Doom WADs that were less close to real coding than what this lets you do (full Javascript API).

Re:Game Builder: Create 3D games with friends, no experience... by TeMPOraL on Friday June 14, 2019 @03:04AM (#20181045)
Yeah, I repeated that as a mantra when I was first learning to program and trying to make games. We all did, it was a common meme of our local game development scene.

And it's utter and complete nonsense. If what you want is to make a game, then these tools aren't half as bad, and at the level of simple games, unless you have some really novel mechanic, you're quite literally wasting time and effort coding it instead of using a game builder.

What drove this point home to me after more than a decade were two situations.

1) on a global game jam, the artist in our team got fed up waiting for us programmers after 3 or 4 hours, and did the prototype we're trying to build in 15 minutes flat, using Construct 2.

2) you too may be surprised to discover that some of the fun and highly acclaimed titles like Cook Serve Delicious or Nuclear Throne were made in Game Maker. I didn't even suspect it until I found it on-line (in the former case, because sources were available in Humble Bundle's Game Maker bundle).

There's value in hand-coding a game, and this is what I still like to do in simple cases, but it's often not the practical option. And if a game maker allows you to add custom code, then really there's no difference between this and Unity or Unreal Engine.

Re:Game Builder: Create 3D games with friends, no experience... by Wowfunhappy on Friday June 14, 2019 @09:38AM (#20182850)
Also, a lot of professional game developers seem to have gotten started with Game Maker as children. One example that comes to mind is Matt Thorsen, creator of Celeste.
Re:Game Builder: Create 3D games with friends, no experience... by dorkwood on Friday June 14, 2019 @12:28AM (#20180582)
Looking at the site, it seems like they also allow for custom scripts if you want functionality that their templates don’t provide.
Re:Game Builder: Create 3D games with friends, no experience... by Bakary on Friday June 14, 2019 @10:43AM (#20183394)
There are enough gateways into programming that if a child is even remotely predisposed to it, they'll come across it at the right time.