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Re:Tokyo proves that housing shortages are a political choice by geebee on Saturday June 01, 2019 @07:14PM (#20072370)
Has this always been the case? I remember hearing way back in the 80s various (and probably hyperbolic) stories about how the dollar value of the land in greater Tokyo was greater than the dollar value of the all the land in the entire United States, how if you dropped a $10,000 bill in Tokyo it would be worth less than the land it covered, that sort of thing.

It's possible for land to be valuable and worth owning while buildings are not viewed as investments. I'm not convinced that SF owners of single family properties would necessarily be financially harmed by a major relaxation of density restrictions. It's entirely possible that the value of living space per square foot could go down while the value of land per sq foot goes up.

Re:Tokyo proves that housing shortages are a political choice by harisenbon on Saturday June 01, 2019 @09:14PM (#20072852)
You are 100% correct. Land is valuable, houses & buildings are not.

The small house on my land has decreased to the point where I pay less than $100 a year in taxes on it.

The land that it's on has increased by around 30x in the last 50 years.

Re:Tokyo proves that housing shortages are a political choice by hackerbabz on Saturday June 01, 2019 @11:04PM (#20073207)
What drives the value of the land if you are not able to build a valuable structure on it?
Re:Tokyo proves that housing shortages are a political choice by brownbat on Saturday June 01, 2019 @11:22PM (#20073255)
Location.

It's valuable to be next to useful places. This value of proximity could be increasing so rapidly that it would wash out the value of any particular residential building you could put there.

Re:Tokyo proves that housing shortages are a political choice by ShorsHammer on Sunday June 02, 2019 @01:30AM (#20073658)
A piece of land in a great location that you can't build a house/apartment or carpark on is still worthless for all intents and purposes.

The only reason someone would buy it is to speculate that one day you can build something there.

Zoning dictates prices, it's a struggle to get people to understand that sometimes.

Re:Tokyo proves that housing shortages are a political choice by bostik on Sunday June 02, 2019 @04:58AM (#20074322)
As the article points out (but does not emphasise), the houses in Japan are by design transient. They are built to fit need, and demolished to make space for something new in their due time.

This makes the land much more valuable - a plot can be repurposed when necessary, especially when the zoning rules and taxation encourage it too.

Re:Tokyo proves that housing shortages are a political choice by dillonmckay on Sunday June 02, 2019 @09:05AM (#20075197)
Sometimes people would rather live next to nothing, not other people.
Re:Tokyo proves that housing shortages are a political choice by lawnchair_larry on Sunday June 02, 2019 @12:17AM (#20073443)
Houses and buildings are extremely valuable. Sure, sometimes the land is more valuable in some locations, but it still costs the average American a small fortune to build a home on it regardless of the land cost.
Re:Tokyo proves that housing shortages are a political choice by Aeolun on Sunday June 02, 2019 @01:53AM (#20073720)
That doesn’t mean the house still has that value after it is built though.
Re:Tokyo proves that housing shortages are a political choice by dzhiurgis on Sunday June 02, 2019 @09:36AM (#20075350)
The market inflates price (not value), because regulation is restricting the build (or inflate the cost of building process itself) of new houses.

In Japan it seems regulatory process is easy, hence price drops.

I'd add that probably building a lot of social housing inflates the market as well...

Re:Tokyo proves that housing shortages are a political choice by lawnchair_larry on Sunday June 02, 2019 @03:50PM (#20077640)
Still not correct. Materials and labor costs dwarf regulatory costs, even in hot markets.

The market does not inflate price, the market assigns value. In a hot real estate market, prices are value-driven, not cost-driven. In quieter markets, where supply of land is high, and builders are not booked out 1-2 years in advance, prices are cost-driven.

Re:Tokyo proves that housing shortages are a political choice by dzhiurgis on Sunday June 02, 2019 @05:12PM (#20078239)
Yeah but... Real estate market gets hot because of restricted supply...

And supply is set by regulation, regardless of cost...

Re:Tokyo proves that housing shortages are a political choice by lawnchair_larry on Monday June 03, 2019 @11:18AM (#20084046)
Supply is definitely not set by regulation.
Re:Tokyo proves that housing shortages are a political choice by okcando on Monday June 03, 2019 @01:02PM (#20085434)
Artificially restricting supply seems to be the function of zoning laws and similar. If laws governing a property preclude the building of and usage as, say, high-density housing, then the supply of high-density has been restricted by regulation. Consequently, prices for property that has been enabled for high-density goes up. And because the demand for high-density housing is driven by the greater pool of demand for housing of all kinds and there's less housing overall to go around, the price of low-density housing also goes up.

I don't know what's going on in any particular place but the potential for regulations to affect supply and demand is clearly there.

Re:Tokyo proves that housing shortages are a political choice by kalleboo on Sunday June 02, 2019 @07:11AM (#20074736)
The context here is Japan, where houses and buildings are worthless, not America
Re:Tokyo proves that housing shortages are a political choice by seanmcdirmid on Sunday June 02, 2019 @12:54AM (#20073542)
Japan went through a huge multi decade housing bust after the 80s, which brought down much of the USA/Canadian west coast with it for 5 or so years in the early/mid 90s.
Re:Tokyo proves that housing shortages are a political choice by ohyes on Sunday June 02, 2019 @10:02AM (#20075493)
The value of the land would go through the roof. Houses would absolutely be getting torn down to build high density apartments.

There is more to it than monetary considerations however, communities will be destroyed, the feelings and romantic notions people have about the area will be stepped on.

Re:Tokyo proves that housing shortages are a political choice by wbl on Sunday June 02, 2019 @10:56AM (#20075822)
Berkeley has a ridiculous number of nonconforming buildings. Clearly they did not destroy the community.
Re:Tokyo proves that housing shortages are a political choice by zzzzzzzza on Sunday June 02, 2019 @09:36AM (#20075354)
check out princes of the yen for an explanation of japan's housing bubble (and a lot more).
Re:Tokyo proves that housing shortages are a political choice by oska on Monday June 03, 2019 @01:12AM (#20080559)
This book looks good. Thanks for mentioning it.