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Re:Google revives controversial cold-fusion experiments by usaphp on Tuesday May 28, 2019 @11:23AM (#20031039)
I know you are joking, but unlike Google, Tesla at least tries to finish whatever they start and actually deliver stuff, while google quickly jumps the ship if the thing does not work out and abandoned all their customers
Re:Google revives controversial cold-fusion experiments by drewg123 on Tuesday May 28, 2019 @01:46PM (#20032508)
As a Tesla owner, I have to say that I'm really looking forward to them delivering the Full Self Driving option that I paid for 18 months ago when I bought my car.
Re:Google revives controversial cold-fusion experiments by BinaryIdiot on Tuesday May 28, 2019 @02:36PM (#20032986)
The worst part is, it doesn't seem like they'll be able to. I'm curious what happens if they ultimate need additional / different sensors to make it happen. Do they replace those parts for free?
Re:Google revives controversial cold-fusion experiments by microtherion on Tuesday May 28, 2019 @04:40PM (#20034159)
I also wonder whether the choice of sensor technology they already (pre-)SOLD informs Tesla's opinion of what sensor technology is NEEDED for Full Self Driving (Their view that LIDAR is not necessary seems to be an outlier in the industry; are we sure that view is not influenced by the sizable outlay they'd face for upgrading their previously sold FSD option cars if they changed their mind?)
Re:Google revives controversial cold-fusion experiments by drewg123 on Tuesday May 28, 2019 @05:27PM (#20034589)
My understanding is that FSD will at least require a new computer module, which they are supposed to replace for free for those of us who have purchased FSD.

However, it is an open question whether or not it will require additional / different sensors (like lidar).

Re:Google revives controversial cold-fusion experiments by _red on Tuesday May 28, 2019 @04:05PM (#20033825)
A hypothetical:

You are driving your car and see that the pickup truck in front of you has an empty cardboard box in it (you can tell its empty by the way its floating around in bed of truck). Suddenly a gust of win picks up the box and it lands directly in front of your car. Its not very big, about 12 inches tall. Do you: (a) Slam on breaks? (b) Roll over it?

Now what will the "AI" in your car do?

Self-driving cars are not coming anytime soon. They are a whole slew of problems that you can intuit solutions to fairly easily, that are still beyond the ability of current tech.

Re:Google revives controversial cold-fusion experiments by gliboc on Tuesday May 28, 2019 @04:47PM (#20034223)
I'm returning your argument. Imagine your are driving your car on the highway, but you suddenly have a heart attack and become unable to remain conscious. Do you: (a) Die? (b) Die?

Manned vehicles are not coming anytime soon. They are a whole slew of problems etc. -- you got my point.

I think focusing too much on pesky details is very much a fallacy in this case - you do not want an "AI" to react like a human in all situations, you only want it to drive in a way that is conservative enough not to endanger people too much. And we clearly aren't that far from this goal right now.

Re:Google revives controversial cold-fusion experiments by perl4ever on Tuesday May 28, 2019 @06:45PM (#20035147)
"Imagine your are driving your car on the highway, but you suddenly have a heart attack and become unable to remain conscious"

Humans who drive cautiously may go for a million miles without an accident. The best self-driving cars (i.e. Waymo) disengage on average every 11,000 miles.[1] It seems to me that a disengagement is equivalent to becoming unconscious without warning, and presumably we both agree that a given human does not have a heart attack while driving every year.

Humans, even with all the people who drive drunk, or texting, or falling asleep, average about 80 million miles between fatalities. Going 11,000 miles between events of total loss of control is nearly four orders of magnitude worse.

[1]https://www.forbes.com/sites/alanohnsman/2019/02/13/waymo-to...

Re:Google revives controversial cold-fusion experiments by gliboc on Wednesday May 29, 2019 @01:28PM (#20042941)
It is an interesting metric, thank you for pointing it out. Until now I kept in mind the amount of miles between accidents, but surely both should be considered.

However, I think this metric could be irrelevant in the case of a home/work commute. The 11,000 miles average appears to have been obtained basically by randomly driving Waymo cars on Californian roads. But a usual commute is much less than 11,000 miles, and if your self-driving can do it by itself once then probably it can do it twice. As the article puts it:

"The value of the data is limited, however, as the figures don’t factor in the complexity of environments in which vehicles are tested–dense urban settings, versus low-speed suburbs or less complex highway driving–nor do they show conditions including weather, light or speed."

Nevertheless, you seem to have missed my point : I was arguing that coming up with a specific use-case example that may (or may not, actually) go wrong is an argument that goes both ways.

Re:Google revives controversial cold-fusion experiments by vel0city on Tuesday May 28, 2019 @06:53PM (#20035212)
I've experienced much more soft debris fall from a vehicle in front of me on the road than I've had heart attacks at the wheel.
Re:Google revives controversial cold-fusion experiments by robocat on Tuesday May 28, 2019 @05:54PM (#20034801)
That is a fallacious argument.

If we pick a hypothetical where a human fails and an AI doesn't, does that mean self-driving cars are ready?

Do you think human drivers are faultless drivers?

Is their a fair cost-benefit analysis for not wasting enormous amounts of collective time driving? (Driving is a very unproductive activity).

Re:Google revives controversial cold-fusion experiments by mejari on Tuesday May 28, 2019 @04:09PM (#20033865)
I'm pretty sure I remember a pretty large "this technology does not currently exist, may not be feasible, and may not be available based on local regulations" disclaimer on their sales pages, right? I thought they were explicitly selling the sensors that would be required if the self-driving feature was implemented.
Re:Google revives controversial cold-fusion experiments by smt88 on Tuesday May 28, 2019 @12:02PM (#20031418)
Alphabet doesn't seem to abandon moonshots as easily as it does consumer SaaS products like Reader.

They still have massive, on-going investments in anti-aging and self-driving vehicles. I don't know of any moonshots they've killed yet.

Re:Google revives controversial cold-fusion experiments by wezen on Tuesday May 28, 2019 @01:42PM (#20032450)
> I don't know of any moonshots they've killed yet.

Google fiber is mostly dead.

Re:Google revives controversial cold-fusion experiments by Apocryphon on Tuesday May 28, 2019 @03:45PM (#20033632)
That one seems more like a fault of legal battles and rent-seekers.
Re:Google revives controversial cold-fusion experiments by fooker on Tuesday May 28, 2019 @12:51PM (#20031919)
> I don't know of any moonshots they've killed yet.

Project Ara?

Re:Google revives controversial cold-fusion experiments by toast0 on Tuesday May 28, 2019 @03:06PM (#20033266)
Has Tesla started delivering repair manuals and replacement parts? I keep hearing about Tesla vehicles at the body shop for several months.
Re:Google revives controversial cold-fusion experiments by Analemma_ on Tuesday May 28, 2019 @11:41AM (#20031230)
The problem with Tesla is when they take your money promising to deliver something, when they can't. Full self-driving capability is never, ever coming to the current-gen Teslas, no matter what Elon says - the sensory capability just isn't there. Google at least says "we can't support this profitably, so we won't" while Tesla engages in fraud.
Re:Google revives controversial cold-fusion experiments by ChrisClark on Tuesday May 28, 2019 @02:20PM (#20032840)
Never? Even when we've already seen it working?
Re:Google revives controversial cold-fusion experiments by stonogo on Tuesday May 28, 2019 @02:30PM (#20032932)
You've been told you've seen it working. You have not seen full self-driving.
Re:Google revives controversial cold-fusion experiments by anthonybsd on Tuesday May 28, 2019 @02:57PM (#20033183)
You have? Care to share with the rest of us?
Re:Google revives controversial cold-fusion experiments by jsty on Tuesday May 28, 2019 @12:09PM (#20031485)
Let's be fair, Google does usually deliver a working product, even if they take it away just as everyone starts using and liking it.
Re:Google revives controversial cold-fusion experiments by devoply on Tuesday May 28, 2019 @11:35AM (#20031169)
Please don't call willing experiment participants customers.
Re:Google revives controversial cold-fusion experiments by technofiend on Tuesday May 28, 2019 @12:16PM (#20031562)
>I know you are joking, but unlike Google, Tesla at least tries to finish whatever they start and actually deliver stuff, while google quickly jumps the ship if the thing does not work out and abandoned all their customers

I'm envisioning the Mr. Fusion in Back To The Future as a Google product. Surely it would fail the second it left that narrow 5-10 year window of support. Error: 403, Forbidden; the user is not authorized for trans-time operation.

Re:Google revives controversial cold-fusion experiments by magduf on Tuesday May 28, 2019 @12:40PM (#20031800)
Sorry for the pedantry, but you're confused. Mr. Fusion had little to do with time travel: it was a commercial device which Doc got in the future, and which simply generated power from whatever you wanted to pour into it. Doc's flux capacitor is what allowed time-travel, and it needed a lot of power. So before, he had to either use uranium or lightning, but after installing Mr. Fusion he didn't need either of those hard-to-get things.

So, if Mr. Fusion was a Google product, as soon as McFly transported the DeLorean to the future (outside Google's window of support) and the onboard computer synced the time over-the-air and the Mr. Fusion updated its clock, McFly would be stuck in the future, though presumably in that time he should be able to find some competitor to Mr. Fusion which he could replace it with (with Doc's help; McFly never seemed to be very good with technical things).

Re:Google revives controversial cold-fusion experiments by nerpderp82 on Tuesday May 28, 2019 @01:11PM (#20032102)
TIL, turn off autoupdates and clock sync when doing any sort of time traveling.
Re:Google revives controversial cold-fusion experiments by technofiend on Tuesday May 28, 2019 @02:17PM (#20032815)
I was simply remembering the end of the first movie where Doc drops a beer can, a banana peel and so on into the Mr. Fusion so he can take Marty and his girlfriend into the future and joking when Doc ended up in 198-whatever Mr. Fusion would refuse to work because it was out of support. I think you're interleaving the timelines of later movies?