> Mark's hybrid squat, and low bar squats, put a huge amount of pressure on your elbows and shoulders.
I had this problem, and it turned out to be a form problem that my Starting Strength Coach fixed without switching to a different exercise. You can't do the exercise wrong and then claim there's a problem with it.
The only time I get shoulder & elbow pain squatting is when I'm going too heavy on volume and my form is breaking down. Otherwise I don't notice it.
A more beginner way to do this is to do kettlebell cleans or snatches, which are way easier to do than barbell cleans.
As a Starting Strength Coach (there are around 130 of us), I I can confirm that a few of the comments accurately sum up the objections (rather misunderstandings) of the program that H1Supreme highlighted.
The powerclean is an important part of the novice program to build explosive power - the ability to display strength, quickly. It can be substituted by another lift, or a light deadlift day, if the trainee's injury status or age make it an unwise cost/benefit equation. But this is considered a trade-off and isn't ideal.
Yes, the powerclean is technical. So is the squat. And the press. And the bench, to a much lesser degree. Which segues into the issue mentioned in the second point. Elbow pain in the squat. As accurately described by "yepguy," this is indeed a technical error. Here's how to fix it: https://startingstrength.com/training/preventing-elbow-pain-...
A few other thoughts: pwthornton, kettle-bell cleans and snatches are not a substitute for barbell cleans and snatches. What we're chasing is adequate training stress to facilitate an adaptation. One of the primary drivers of that stress is load - weight on the bar. Kettle-bells are too light (comparatively) to create meaningful enough stress to facilitate the stress, recovery, adaptation cycle in the context of training (goal oriented exercise). More reading on the topic: https://startingstrength.com/article/training_vs_exercise
anarchodev, Rippetoe and Starting Strength are more interested in getting regular, everyday people strong than high school football players. Yes, it's a great way for getting young men big and strong (I gained 65lbs), but it's also a way to improve quality of life for octogenarians, for example. The low-bar squat is in the program versus the high bar squat because it uses more muscle mass, which means more weight on the bar can be used. Weight on the bar is the primary consideration in strength training - more of it is what's needed to get stronger. Here is a piece that analyzes the squat in detail: https://startingstrength.com/article/analysis_of_the_squat
ubercore and DataWorker, for the purposes of strength training - low bar works better. It can be applied to any body type. Shorter torso = more horizontal back angle at the bottom of the squat, and vice versa. Goal is to load the hips, which are a more robust joint than the knees and are surrounded by more muscle mass. Low-bar is not one-size-fits-all, its a model for the squat that can be applied to nearly anyone, with rare exception.
michaelgrafl the nature of goblet squats and front squats require a sub-maximal load when compared to the low bar back squat. They may be suitable for an exercise program, but they are not suitable for an efficient strength training program, and most certainly not for a novice. See comment above about training stress.
I have a ton of respect for this community and would love to interact with you guys. Let me know if I can be helpful in any way.
Best, Ray Gillenwater
One thing to keep in mind with starting strength is that it was meant for high school football players who needed to rapidly add mass and strength. Low bar squats emphasize the posterior chain which are simply larger muscles, and will help the beginner see bigger gains faster and without spending time on the particular advanced cues necessary to perform high-bar squats correctly and safely without injuring your joints. (I'm thinking particularly of adductor strength and thoracic spine mobility.) On the other hand the low-bar squat is often coached incorrectly , resulting in much worse stress on the back and elbows (terrible cues like "knees back", etc). When taught correctly, the pressure commonly felt in the shoulders and elbows in this lift is simply a lack of flexibility and will resolve itself.
I like this gist of his program, but as someone who did it years ago, there's a few things I'd change.
First, remove cleans, and add barbell rows. Lots of people make this adjustment. I don't find the exercise to be beginner friendly. Second, deadlifts will be there own focused day almost immediately. Outside of one's probably first month, doing squats + bench + deadlift is nearly impossible to do in one workout.
On a personal note, I don't like his squat technique. In particular, bar placement. New people should do high-bar, exclusively. Mark's hybrid squat, and low bar squats, put a huge amount of pressure on your elbows and shoulders.