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Re:Lilium unveils five-seater air taxi prototype after a suc... by Wildgoose on Thursday May 16, 2019 @05:14AM (#19927366)
This is described as an 'electric jet' which doesn't make sense to me. Enclosed propellors perhaps?

Edit: Apparently the rotors that compress the air are electrically powered, so sort of.

Re:Lilium unveils five-seater air taxi prototype after a suc... by TeMPOraL on Thursday May 16, 2019 @05:19AM (#19927390)
AFAIK the "jet" in classical jet engines is a jet of air. Unlike rocket engine, where hot combustion gases are your reaction mass, jet engines in aircraft use fuel primarily to spin turbines that compress and move air from the front of the engine to the back of it. You don't need combustible fuel to spin turbines - you can do that with electricity too.
Re:Lilium unveils five-seater air taxi prototype after a suc... by dTal on Thursday May 16, 2019 @07:57AM (#19928098)
Nitpick: a turbine extracts power from a moving fluid. A fan (or impeller) imparts power to a fluid. A traditional jet engine contains both components, which is why they are sometimes referred to as "gas turbines". In an electric jet, there are no turbines and the proper term is "ducted fan" or "electric ducted fan (EDF)".
Re:Lilium unveils five-seater air taxi prototype after a suc... by arethuza on Thursday May 16, 2019 @05:31AM (#19927456)
You can also use any convenient source of heat - e.g. a nuclear reactor:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_Nuclear_Propulsion

Re:Lilium unveils five-seater air taxi prototype after a suc... by jl2718 on Thursday May 16, 2019 @11:07AM (#19929695)
Wow, the 50s were so awesome! This is the kind of thing I wanted to do when I studied engineering. Would anybody else rather make nuclear-powered jets than web sites?
Re:Lilium unveils five-seater air taxi prototype after a suc... by silversconfused on Thursday May 16, 2019 @12:18PM (#19930336)
Oh hell yeah I would, but I sleep better knowing most of YOU ALL are making websites instead of nuke-drones. :P
Re:Lilium unveils five-seater air taxi prototype after a suc... by DuskStar on Thursday May 16, 2019 @01:43PM (#19931097)
Pretty sure everyone - including the people who worked on it - is happy that Project Pluto [0] / SLAM [1] never flew. Despite how awesome the projects were.

0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Pluto

1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supersonic_Low_Altitude_Missil...

Re:Lilium unveils five-seater air taxi prototype after a suc... by Wildgoose on Thursday May 16, 2019 @05:23AM (#19927411)
Yes, thanks - I've just been looking that up. For some reason I'd never really thought about what was involved.
Re:Lilium unveils five-seater air taxi prototype after a suc... by TeMPOraL on Thursday May 16, 2019 @05:48AM (#19927541)
Me neither - I learned this on HN many years ago, so I'm just passing it forward :).
Re:Lilium unveils five-seater air taxi prototype after a suc... by ClassyJacket on Thursday May 16, 2019 @06:05AM (#19927602)
Isn't that also what a propeller does?
Re:Lilium unveils five-seater air taxi prototype after a suc... by dTal on Thursday May 16, 2019 @08:33AM (#19928315)
A propellor turns shaft torque into air momentum. You need some kind of motor to drive it.

A ducted fan also does this, though its aerodynamics are a bit different. Like a propellor, there is little compression.

A 'turbine' turns flow into torque.

A traditional jet engine turns fuel into torque with a compressor and a turbine. Confusingly it's sometimes called a 'gas turbine'. It also incidentally moves air, but not very efficiently.

A turboprop drives a propellor with a 'gas turbine'.

A modern 'high bypass' jet engine (or "turbofan") drives a ducted fan with a 'gas turbine'.

An 'electric jet' drives a ducted fan with an electric motor. No turbine is involved.

Re:Lilium unveils five-seater air taxi prototype after a suc... by jansan on Thursday May 16, 2019 @08:35AM (#19928335)
These definitions better be correct, becaus I will use your post as a reference from now :)
Re:Lilium unveils five-seater air taxi prototype after a suc... by moonrobin on Thursday May 16, 2019 @06:16AM (#19927646)
IANAAE (I Am Not An Aerospace Engineer), but I think the key difference here is the compression that happens with turbines as opposed to propellers which only move the air.
Re:Lilium unveils five-seater air taxi prototype after a suc... by larkeith on Thursday May 16, 2019 @07:09AM (#19927850)
I've always wondered what exactly differs a jet from a ducted fan - this makes a lot of sense, thank you!
Re:Lilium unveils five-seater air taxi prototype after a suc... by dTal on Thursday May 16, 2019 @08:16AM (#19928207)
Modern "high bypass" jet engines are actually ducted fans, with the shaft powered by a "gas turbine" whose role is mostly to provide torque. All propulsion units compress the air to some extent, even propellers - if they didn't, they would be silent. However, in a gas turbine, the function of the "compressor stage" (which is NOT the "turbine" part) is to get a lot of oxygen in one place, where it can be combined with a lot of fuel, which makes it very hot, which causes it to adiabatically expand a lot, driving the turbine at the back (this is what a 'turbine' does - extract power). If the air weren't compressed, you wouldn't be able to burn much fuel with it, and it wouldn't get so hot and expand so much. (By the way, this is the same reason for superchargers and turbochargers in piston engines. More air = more fuel = more heat and expansion)

This process isn't actually very efficient at moving air though, which is why gas turbines are now mostly used to power ducted fans, propellors, and helicopter rotors.

Re:Lilium unveils five-seater air taxi prototype after a suc... by semi-extrinsic on Thursday May 16, 2019 @11:53AM (#19930123)
In a propeller aircraft, basically you waste the energy left in your exhaust gas. But in a turbojet you make some use of it.

Also there is the distinction between just propeller, a turboprop, a turbojet and a turbofan. What we call jet airliners are typically high bypass turbofans. Turbojets (without bypass) have low efficiency at subsonic speeds, but they were used on Concorde and on fighter aircraft.

Re:Lilium unveils five-seater air taxi prototype after a suc... by ForHackernews on Thursday May 16, 2019 @06:16AM (#19927647)
According to this article https://www.wired.com/story/lilium-electric-aircraft-prototy...

> The “Lilium Jet” uses 36 electric-powered ducted fans. Inside each, a small rotor ingests air from the front and pushes it out of the rear at higher speeds. They’re not technically jet engines (so the aircraft isn’t a “jet”). The lack of spinning blades improves efficiency, reduces noise, and eliminates the risk of turning passing birds into chop suey.

Re:Lilium unveils five-seater air taxi prototype after a suc... by mannykannot on Thursday May 16, 2019 @07:02AM (#19927821)
That article is not very accurate:

> The lack of spinning blades improves efficiency,...

A ducted fan is, in fact, a bunch of blades spinning in a duct. A well-designed ducted fan can be more efficient than a propeller of the same diameter. That efficiency is also more dependent on airspeed, as any given duct shape must be designed for a particular flow [1]. (it looks as though this design may have a variable nozzle, which could broaden the efficiency hump over a wider speed range.)

>...reduces noise...

To some extent, though the ducted fans on airliners still demonstrate a fair amount of noise from the fan itself. The video continues the practice of not giving a clear indication of how much noise is being generated.

>...eliminates the risk of turning passing birds into chop suey.

As there are rotating blades, this does not follow. It is not going to be healthy for either bird or fan when they collide. At least this airplane has a lot of fans.

[1] http://massflow.archivale.com/ductbook.htm

Re:Lilium unveils five-seater air taxi prototype after a suc... by larkeith on Thursday May 16, 2019 @07:11AM (#19927863)
> eliminates the risk of turning passing birds into chop suey.

To be fair, it's a lot easier to put a debris (including birds) filter in front of a ducted fan than a prop.

Re:Lilium unveils five-seater air taxi prototype after a suc... by mannykannot on Thursday May 16, 2019 @07:48AM (#19928056)
There are efficiency issues, and it is not often done. It is hard to tell, but it does not seem to have been done here.
Re:Lilium unveils five-seater air taxi prototype after a suc... by aidenn0 on Thursday May 16, 2019 @03:34PM (#19932238)
They say "20% as loud as a helicopter" and I found a Bell J2-A at 100 Ft is 100dB, so maybe 93ish dB at 100 feet? That's about as loud as a motorcycle at 25 feet, so significantly louder still than any road traffic.
Re:Lilium unveils five-seater air taxi prototype after a suc... by dogma1138 on Thursday May 16, 2019 @05:48AM (#19927540)
In jet engines the thrust comes form shoving material out of the end - the jet itself.

In props the primary thrust comes form the force due to the pressure differential on the prop blades basically it’s like someone is pulling the aircraft.

Re:Lilium unveils five-seater air taxi prototype after a suc... by TheSpiceIsLife on Thursday May 16, 2019 @06:47AM (#19927763)
High bypass turbofans and turboprops somewhat blur the line.
Re:Lilium unveils five-seater air taxi prototype after a suc... by throwaway55554 on Thursday May 16, 2019 @07:52AM (#19928077)
EDF - Electric Ducted Fan is probably the more accurate term for what they're using.
Re:Lilium unveils five-seater air taxi prototype after a suc... by NotPaidToPost on Thursday May 16, 2019 @07:45AM (#19928045)
It's marketing... "electric jet" sounds cool.
Re:Lilium unveils five-seater air taxi prototype after a suc... by rjsw on Thursday May 16, 2019 @05:31AM (#19927457)
One name for it is "motorjet" [1].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorjet