Whether it's a professional networking event or a fun, crazy, not-so-professional party, no one should be treated in this manner. No matter her (or his) behavior or the atmosphere. Period. Also, she mentioned "sitting on laps" because there was no room in the party, and people have a right to flirt without being, uh, sexually molested.
Finally, the linked article cites this as one example. There are many others, like when the author
organized a group outing to a pub, only to have one of the invited workshop attendees grab my ass while I was having a completely normal conversation.
(EDIT) sp332 points out that GP is discussing the environment at these events, but we're operating in shades of gray here.
The author talks about how the attitude towards women at these events is "institutionalized sexism." That is, people hired strippers etc. for years, and that attitude still exists at conferences/events. Noira could've been out-of-bounds by sitting in someone's lap, but we don't have any information on whether she knows the person, has a relationship with them, etc.
Still, GP's comment implies that Noira's behavior fosters the "sexualized environment" the author is complaining about. My point is that there's a big leap from Noira's flirting to women being groped. (/edit)
Look guys, women flirt to signal interest. You can never assume anything more than that is intended. It's not fair to them and you'll look foolish (or worse) if you go too fast.
However, read the proposed policy: http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/index.php?title=Conference_ant...
> We do not tolerate harassment of conference participants in any form. Sexual language and imagery is not appropriate for any conference venue, including talks. Conference participants violating these rules may be sanctioned or expelled from the conference [without a refund] at the discretion of the conference organizers.
Sexual language is forbidden. I think we can agree that this too, is ridiculous.
I just think that no matter how crowded a hotel room, you shouldn't sit on other peoples laps or flirt with people if you actually intend to keep the gathering anything close to professional. If you want to sexualize your environment, I'd suggest a short skirt, flirting and sitting on people's laps.
Sadly, you can't have both.
Even in a sexually charged environment where people are strongly flirting with each other, a reasonable person will know the line between flirting (and back off if the signals are poor) and assaulting someone. When a woman rejects your potentially reasonable advance, shoving your hand down her pants isn't step 2.
I'm a guy, but when I go out I try and look nice. Sometimes I'll flirt with people. That's fine. If I flirt with someone and it's not reciprocated, I stop. Immediately.
You're basically just rephrasing the "she was asking for it"argument there. And it's crap. So don't.
But when rebuffed you don't then feel her up. There is a line to be crossed; she brought the passes on herself to be sure, but not the assault.
(EDIT: the replies to this make it clear my point got a bit twisted. I was rebuffing the parent to this' point about her being flirty at the party; by suggesting that flirtyness is not wrong and neither is [in many cases] making passes at flirty people. But that assaulting them after a clear rebuff is always wrong. In this case it is clear he was entirely in the wrong. Using the word "necessarily" was meant to convey that, obviously that didn't work ;))
Brought the passes on herself? No. You can flirt with someone, if they don't reciprocate, it's not cool. First move = kiss is not flirting, it's massively inappropriate.
Yep, she did. But that is not a blame on the victim.
If you wander round flirting with people they are going to make passes at you. She admits this, and seems fine with it. There is nothing wrong with wandering round being flirty, there is nothing wrong with guys taking that as a signal to make a pass at her.
Feeling her up after being rejected definitely is wrong.
Someone being flirtatious with others is not a green light for you to make a pass. Not if they're not flirting with you. Even then, there's still plenty of nuance and context which would determine whether that's acceptable.
In this case he was in the wrong all the way; but you could put down everything up to the kiss as misguided, or confused or as simply idiotic behaviour. Guys get funny around flirty girls and make stupid choices.
But action after the clear rebuff is a different matter (and this was sorta the point I was trying to make but it got a bit bogged down).
(on re-reading, in this case, I'd only excuse the bit up to the kiss in this case, he seems to have forced the kiss instead of just going for it [if that follows]).
Asking a woman if you can kiss her may feel hard, but looking back on my single teenage years, that's a whole lot easier than "going for a kiss".
I say all this like I'm Mr. Smooth. Nothing could have been further from the truth and I've been in a committed relationship for 13 years. Watching an episode of Freaks and Geeks last night just brought back a lot of tough memories prior to meeting her.
On the other hand, if you can pull off just going for it and she digs it, that makes you look really good.
But sometimes, the first real move in a relationship is a kiss, which comes fairly much out of the blue.
Context is everything.
If women can't flirt in those environs, we're doomed as a species. Unless you want to go trolling at dance clubs?
Definitely. Were you under the impression that I was saying otherwise?
> I lay across the bed, sat on laps, generally tried to squish in to any available space and get time to talk to all the fabulous people thronging the place. [...] I had a few drinks. I was wearing a skirt of such a length that I had cycling shorts on under it to make me feel more comfortable getting up on stage and dancing. I had been flirting with a couple of other boys at the party.
Way to be professional...