What sucks is the most productive people left and the already massive state obligations fell on those left. It wasn't the currency that did that.
A simplified example of the above:
Let's say that Germany kept the Deutsche Mark (DM) and Italy kept the Lira. Let's assume in this case that Germany's exports exceed their imports (trade surplus) and Italy's imports exceed exports (trade deficit).
In the case of Germany, because their exports exceed imports, the value of the DM would go up, because there's more demand for the DM. This would make goods from Germany more expensive (your dollars can buy fewer DMs) and it would slightly diminish the exports of Germany. Due to the DM being more expensive it also means that foreign investment in Germany is more expensive, because your dollars can buy you fewer DMs.
In the case of Italy, because their imports exceed their exports, the value of the Lira would fall, because there's less demand for it. This means that goods from Italy become cheaper (your dollars can buy more Lira) and it would increase Italy's exports. Due to the Lira being less expensive it's cheaper for foreign investors to invest on Italy, because you dollars can buy you more Lira.
When both of these countries adopt the euro, you will have to add up their exports and their imports to find out whether there's a trade surplus or deficit. Let's say that when you add them up and compare you find that you have neither a trade surplus or deficit. This means that goods exported by Germany won't increase in price and the goods exported by Italy won't decrease in price. This is advantageous to Germany and disadvantageous to Italy. It also means that Italy won't gain an advantage in attracting foreign investments compared to Germany either (based on the currency).
In reality, the topic is much more complex, but different currencies seem to have a balancing effect on exports, imports, and foreign investments. Strong exporters in the eurozone benefit from the countries that import a lot.
Yeah, but it doesn't mean they are brighter than British ones. It just means it's cheaper to hire a Greek or Italian developer (that and culture differences that British people would also need to deal with).
Saying this as a developer from Lithuania working in the UK.
The location of the company dictates the wages ( costs of living), not the source of the developer.... (unless we’re talking an H1B visa sham hire which isn’t the same as your situation)
This is what the ECB did.
No, but it will lower the cost of labour. If you have low productivity, you need to pay your workers less. If you can't devalue the currency, you have to lower wages. If you lower wages, you create deflation: your money will be more valuable tomorrow than it is today. And so you stop spending and start saving, and consumption falls.
Juncker - who is the only European politician who signed the Maastricht treaty in ‘92 still active today - reiterated at a 20 year commemoration mid January this year that for him, the European Fiscal Union remains an unconventional measure of politics for common peace.
Then again, it's also just a logical extension of the same process through which the most powerful European states today have formed themselves.
What the US has, and the EU would need, are some mechanisms to level economic differences between the constituent states. Any federal US program effectively works as such, even though that is rarely acknowledged in the public discourse. As but one example: military spending is financed primarily by the economically strong and populous states, and disproportionately favors poorer states with defense contacts or military bases.
The EU has a few such mechanisms, some explicit (regional development funds), some less so (agriculture). But the total E.U. budget is rather tiny compared to the economy. Something like a common unemployment insurance would be best, mechanistically. Because it would automatically adjust to changing fortunes at the very local level without requiring constant political intervention and the accompanying bargaining. At present, such a policy is unlikely to find approval because of pervasive remaining mistrust („lazy Greeks taking our money“).
It can be argued that the Euro has certain structural issues, or that the wealth transfer is too big/small, but the EU demonstrates that you don't need to become one nation just to have wealth transfers.
But from a political and social point of view, while it's somehow easy to convince the citizens of a nation that they have to contribute from their own pockets to the common good, the situation is much harder in Europe. We are not a nation, we are culturally and linguistically different, we consider ourselves as separate entities. The euro is actually increasing reciprocal distrust. The whole EU political system is overly complicated (and, ironically, undemocratic) because it includes both a parliamentary democracy and a council of heads of states- because no European nation would trust decisions made by a shared parliament without having them vetted by their own national governments.
There should have been a major push in education to form citizens that would be at least able to understand each others- there wasn't, at least in part of the EU. Damn, we have major EU members that decide to wage wars on their own, it's inconceivable.
So how do you convince the citizens of rich, disciplined countries, to get money out of their pockets to heavily subsidize the citizens of other countries, speaking a different language, with autonomous armies, different legal systems, completely separate political class, very limited transfers of people across borders (and mainly in one direction, north)?
/rant :)
I live in one of the wealthiest NUTS3[1] regions in the EU. Why should I be paying higher taxes to send someone's kid living in the boonies in my country to school? Let's just form a city-state instead. We even have a handy historical defensive wall we could resurrect for that purpose.
Of course most people would think that's absurd, but it's worth mentioning since this notion that you should subsidize your "countrymen" was once just as novel as the idea that the Dutch should subsidize the Greeks is to some today.
You're only taking this for granted for nation states because you grew up in the era of nation states. There's no intrinsic reason for why someone born in the EU area in 2100 wouldn't find the idea that you shouldn't engage in wealth transfers within that area as quaint as the idea that we should being going back to city-states is today.
I think if anything what the WTO, NAFTA, EU etc. show is that in the future the idea that you need to sign up for some "package deal" of a nation state for everything from tariffs to defense will be viewed as too monolithic.
1. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/90/Map_of_G...
I know very well the issue because it's been at the center of a bitter north- south dispute in Italy for decades. (the rich, productive north complains that too much money has been given to the south without appreciable results).
But in the national case the transfers are decided at national level, the regions have no say in it; if there are protests, a national police keeps order. The tax money is collected by state entities, and then redistributed to the regions. There have been pushes to partly change this, but there is also a strong cultural resistance because there is a sense of national unity, of shared history, cultural and family ties, and a historical foundational myth.
All this stuff is weak or non-existent for the EU as a community. It's not impossible in principle, it's simply not there now, and given all the differences- especially linguistic- it seems that it's going to take a long time and a lot of effort to create, provided that there is even the will to do so.
I don't think we fundamentally disagree. I agree that it's possible, it's just that there is going to be a lot of resistance along the way and that the national governments, which still hold the majority of the power in the EU and are still the intermediaries between their citizens and EU institutions, will be extremely cautious in implementing such a system without a complete support from their citizens.
Ah, 2100 is very, very far away. I'm not sure we can wait that long.
Look at the USA as an example. The difference with the EU is that the USA are vastly more homogeneous and I believe there is very little opposition to redistribute wealth from richer to poorer states. The EU is fragmented, almost nobody wants a tight political and fiscal integration. What would be of the USA if state governors were much more powerful than the federal president, to the point that few people would know who the president is and what he can do? This is the state of the EU.
But this would massively hurt the weaker and smaller economies though. Businesses congregate where other businesses are. Workers follow. Brain drain has been a big problem in the EU. If EU countries all have to adopt similar taxation schemes then why would you start a business in Romania if you could just start it in Germany instead?
But for example Greece, that "cheat" they did to get in eurozone couple years earlier, wasn't a cheat back then and EU was totally informed, also the debt that swapped was insignificant compared with the amount of debt created due to systemic problems of eurozone and EU.
Too bad there are fake news only for the stronger, the weaker and smaller countries can do nothing but get crashed under the propaganda.
A fiscal union would be economically better but politically it is dead.
That's why "Brexit" is taking almost 3 years now and still there is no ultimate progress. Other countries will surely be interested in how this experiment turns out before doing the same..
From what I have gathered, EU's strategy with Brexit has been pretty straightforward: do not even try to impose any further "penalties" on UK on top of what is already taking place without assistance. Just stay put.
The EU can't be seen to dictate internal UK matters - that would only create further animosity (if such a thing is possible, given the rabid UK press). Instead, let the UK repeatedly shoot themselves in the head while going through their cooked-up contortions.
There will be no better deterrent for others in the EU27 than observing Brexit from a relatively safe distance. "Leave, and that will be you. We don't even need to do anything."
And as for watching Brexit unfold at a close distance? It's like looking at a sword swallower trying out a new trick. With a chainsaw.
For me, watching Brexit from a distance is more akin to seeing people not wanting to leave the Titanic pushed into the lifeboats, dropping from the main deck: sure it's ugly, but wait for the iceberg, and see who are the smart guys afterwards.
As for leaving... uprooting a family is not something you do without a good plan forward.
That seems to be very stupid "mistake" from some very important economists.
Also, having to reign in a double-digit deficit by cutiting the state's chronic overspending also lowered the GDP that was kept artificially high by injecting into the greek economy all that borrowed cash.
So, it's disgenuous to insinuate that Greece's bailout program caused any problem when you're actually referring to the natural consequences of:
1) finding out the true extent of Greece's overspending by fixing their accounting incoherences
2) the impossibility of continuing overspending well over 10% of the nation's GDP.
The corruption narrative is just a diversion from the fact that the whole Euro concept was a bad idea to begin with.
Including investment in education, transport of all kinds, 'going green' (maybe even large new-generation clean-nukes), and also dangling carrots in front of RnD / upgrades likely to produce positive economic impacts.
Not mentioned, since the focus on European governments probably means universal healthcare, is universal healthcare as public infrastructure. That too would be a useful structural improvement and serve to reduce economic friction while improving worker productivity.
But wasn't that the whole point?
Any gains Germany gets from overly tight money are temporary and transient. Running a disastrous monetary policy to indirectly improve Germany's loan terms is an insanely destructive thing to do both to the indebted countries and to the weaker parts of Germany's own economy.
Not allowing people to work and destroying their countries' economies greatly increases the chance these countries are going to default or restructure parts of their debt. This is not to Germany's advantage.
Having neighbors with poor economies is bad for your exports and your own businesses.
In the long run Germany would have had much to gain if people of Europe had functional investment markets and funding was available to buy the tools necessary for people to work and produce instead of strangulated markets.
Having a single currency could have worked (as it works in the US) if it was not managed like they were trying to destroy the west.
"All members past debts were in their home currency, including Germany. Upon joining the Euro, the past debts were also converted to the Euro because their old currencies were abandoned. What I mean by international value is if you look at the debts of all member states, when the euro doubled in value from 80 cents to the US dollar to $1.60, from a US investor, he doubled his money holding Greek debt or any member’s debt. We can see that the dollar rose sharply against the drachma between 1995 going into 1999 demonstrating that the drachma declined 47% going into the formation of the euro. The cost of servicing the past debt rises in real terms and when they had to pay off the debt and roll into new debt, they were paying in international value more than it was worth upon joining the euro.Back during the Reagan Administration, I met with the U.S. Treasury and warned that Volcker raising rates to 14% meant he was suppressing inflation immediately, but causing it to exponentially rise by the end of the decade. Why? Because central banks cannot stimulate or suppress and economy with interest rates when the government is the biggest borrower. Whatever they think they are doing by raising rates to stop people from borrowing has no impact upon government for they will always spend other people’s money freely. In that meeting, I was flatly told it was OK because the government would be paying back with cheaper dollars. In this case, the rise in the euro to $1.60 meant the opposite – member states would be contracting and had to pay out huge sums beyond what they originally owed. This was no different from people who took out Swiss loans and then the Swiss franc/euro peg broke. Suddenly the borrowers owed a lot more in their home currency when the Swiss rallied.
Consequently, the past debt of Greece was in drachma and the decline in the currency meant that its debt in terms of dollars (international value terms) fell almost by 50%. Upon joining the euro, the past debt was then converted to euro – not before. Therefore, in international terms of value, the debts effectively doubled in real terms. This would NOT have been a problem had all the debt of member states been consolidated into a federal debt for Europe. Thereafter, any new borrowing would have been purely state debt NOT acceptable for reserves in the banking system.
In this manner, the past debt, which does not stimulate the immediate economic position, doubled in real terms and increased the cost of servicing the past debt. This is how the economy was strip-mined. Had the debt been consolidated into one federal debt, that burden would have been relieved upon by member states. This would have allowed the euro to then actually compete against the dollar."
https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/international-news/europe... - see for more detail. I've followed Martin Armstrong for well over a decade now and have found him and his computer Socrates to be incredibly accurate.
- Economic homogeneity across an entire nation state can only reasonably expected with small countries
Well, that is not true and probably not an issue. Every country has automatic mechanisms of wealth redistribution across its regions: California feeds most of the central US states. But the EU is a monetary unit without a proper redistribution mechanism between its regions: it's hard to convince the Germans that their tax money should subsidize Italy because it's part of a national unity.
Instead of a "Single" currency, there should be a "Common" currency (with notes and coins) available to be used in all EU states and whose value was not allowed to devalue against any of its constituent basket of EU currencies, i.e. the inflation rate of the "Common" currency would always be equal to the lowest inflation rate of the currencies that made it up. That would encourage people to hold and use it and over time people would migrate to it. It would also allow businesses to only concern themselves with a single exchange rate, namely that between their national currency and the Euro Common currency.
The UK suggestion was, of course, rejected out of hand.
The EU is about a forcing the creation of a single state.
It is a political project rather than a practical one.
Hence Brexit.
It was called the ECU[1]
They also could have just pulled the bandaid off of Greece in 08, booted them from the union, took a loss on the debt, threw aid, and laid it out as an example for Spain and Italy to get their shit in order.
If a macroeconomist had sat down to devise a currency that suffocated Italy, Portugal, Greece and Spain - export driven economies (remember that tourism is an export as you have to buy the local currency to obtain the 'goods'), and benefited Germany (an economy with an export sector that would normally be severely impacted by a strong services sector's drive to increase the value of the currency) - they couldn't have done much better than the current Eurozone setup.
Arguably we need more currencies in the world, not fewer. Economic homogeneity across an entire nation state can only reasonably expected with small countries (and remember that the Italian Republic is a very new country cobbled together out of provinces, often with significantly different economies.)
Left to float independently, the Deutschmark would not be as low as the Euro is today and the Lira would never be as high.