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Re:AT&T’s “5G E” is slower than Verizon and T-Mobile 4G, stu... by waynecochran on Friday March 22, 2019 @05:27PM (#19467137)
Are there rules for enforcing (and by whom?) the term “5G”? Or is it like the word “natural” for health food?
Re:AT&T’s “5G E” is slower than Verizon and T-Mobile 4G, stu... by TheOperator on Friday March 22, 2019 @07:59PM (#19468068)
4G was supposed to achieve 100mbit peaks and I have yet to see speeds even approaching this with 4G LTE. So if somebody is enforcing advertising rules they're doing a shit job...
Re:AT&T’s “5G E” is slower than Verizon and T-Mobile 4G, stu... by joecool1029 on Friday March 22, 2019 @09:06PM (#19468384)
LTE's initial iterations were actually not considered 4G by definition. Part of the longterm evolution part was that as the components were upgraded they would comply with 4G. I can break 100mbps down in a few places on an iphone SE with only a cat3 modem, but that's pushing the spec's real-world limit for that.

Today these speeds are easily achievable on most networks, it's just unlikely for AT&T due to congestion and their poor network and spectrum planning. It helps to spend money on capex instead of buying up shitty Mexican carriers and DirecTV to stem the flow of fleeing customers.

Re:AT&T’s “5G E” is slower than Verizon and T-Mobile 4G, stu... by takeda on Friday March 22, 2019 @09:54PM (#19468566)
I was about to say that it was mostly Sprint and (again) AT&T advertising 3G as 4G, and for example Verizon had real 4G from the start.

But now as I think, I remember that Verizon had 4G that was capped to about 1mbps in certain areas and then gradually speed increased per area.

Re:AT&T’s “5G E” is slower than Verizon and T-Mobile 4G, stu... by bskap on Sunday March 24, 2019 @12:27PM (#19477168)
That was a bit of a mess. Technically, no carrier at the time had a "real" 4G network, according to the ITU- only LTE-Advanced and WiMAX 2 met their definition.

Since the ITU had declared that Sprint's WiMAX network and Verizon's LTE network weren't real 4G, T-Mobile decided that they could call their (just-as-fast-as-early-LTE-networks) HSPA+ network 4G too, and then AT&T was almost forced to follow suit because T-Mobile was advertising how their 4G network was so much bigger than everyone else's.

Re:AT&T’s “5G E” is slower than Verizon and T-Mobile 4G, stu... by joecool1029 on Sunday March 24, 2019 @02:14PM (#19477787)
It should be noted that T-Mobile was the only one set up to deploy DC-HSPA+ at 42mbps peak theoretical. Scratching around 30mbps was around what Verizon could do before congestion set in on band 13. AT&T to the best of my knowledge only had HSPA+ at 21mbps, so it really was way more of a stretch for them to call their network 4G.

So at least, yeah... tmo kinda could have argued it was similar to early '4G' radio technologies on speed alone.

Re:AT&T’s “5G E” is slower than Verizon and T-Mobile 4G, stu... by baybal2 on Saturday March 23, 2019 @04:02AM (#19469521)
Some LTE service out there is worse than properly tuned non-HSPA 3G.
Re:AT&T’s “5G E” is slower than Verizon and T-Mobile 4G, stu... by IshKebab on Saturday March 23, 2019 @04:54AM (#19469654)
They were 4G by definition because the definition of 4G is the 4th generation, and LTE is *clearly" that, despite what some idiots in the ITU may try and claim.

The 3G/4G/etc labels are descriptive, not prescriptive.

Re:AT&T’s “5G E” is slower than Verizon and T-Mobile 4G, stu... by Godel_unicode on Saturday March 23, 2019 @12:26PM (#19471077)
Please don't let a phone company hear you say that, they'll roll the "g" number every year because there's a new generation of firmware. Words should, and do, mean things.
Re:AT&T’s “5G E” is slower than Verizon and T-Mobile 4G, stu... by IshKebab on Saturday March 23, 2019 @05:15PM (#19472394)
I didn't say they don't mean things. And phone companies are welcome to try and call whatever they like 5G but it doesn't make it true, any more than the ITU trying to claim some technology is or is not 5G. What makes something 5G is that it is a widely adopted technology that is a clear generation ahead of 4G. That's it. It's not complicated.
Re:AT&T’s “5G E” is slower than Verizon and T-Mobile 4G, stu... by yjftsjthsd-h on Saturday March 23, 2019 @04:06PM (#19472105)
I was I was under the impression that hspa(?) was 4G, and LTE was ~4.5G
Re:AT&T’s “5G E” is slower than Verizon and T-Mobile 4G, stu... by IshKebab on Saturday March 23, 2019 @05:13PM (#19472387)
HSDPA is part of 3G (3.5G if you like). LTE is 4G.
Re:AT&T’s “5G E” is slower than Verizon and T-Mobile 4G, stu... by rayiner on Friday March 22, 2019 @10:36PM (#19468711)
It depends entirely where you are. Here in Maryland I’m getting over 200 mbps down on an iPhone XR: https://www.speedtest.net/result/i/3160011117
Re:AT&T’s “5G E” is slower than Verizon and T-Mobile 4G, stu... by vitus on Friday March 22, 2019 @11:33PM (#19468905)
The requirements for the proposed 4G spec are actually even higher than that -- 100Mbps was for high-mobility clients, whereas low-mobility clients were promised 1Gbps speeds.

https://www.itu.int/dms_pubrec/itu-r/rec/m/R-REC-M.1645-0-20...

page 9 defines high / low mobility as follows: "low mobility covers pedestrian speed, and high mobility covers high speed on highways or fast trains (60 km/h to ~250 km/h, or more)." (this is roughly 35 to 150 mph)

We are nowhere near those speeds, even on the best networks.

Re:AT&T’s “5G E” is slower than Verizon and T-Mobile 4G, stu... by rayiner on Friday March 22, 2019 @11:42PM (#19468931)
The ITU IMT standards are dumb and meaningless.

They just set aspirational targets, but don’t define any technology for meeting those targets. ITU jumped from 200 kbps for 3G to 1 gigabit for 4G. That was not a useful definition and the market correctly ignored it. Imagine if we had “3G” wired networking defined as 100 mbps and “4G” wired networking aspirationally defined as 10 gigabit. What would you do when the IEEE (the folks who actually make the technology) release 1G Ethernet. Would you insist on calling it 3.5G wired networking?

“4G” is LTE. It’s 4G because it’s what came after HSDPA/EVDO, not because it meets any particular ITU target.

Re:AT&T’s “5G E” is slower than Verizon and T-Mobile 4G, stu... by vitus on Saturday March 23, 2019 @12:15AM (#19469035)
Without any sort of backing specification, the terminology of 3G vs 4G vs 5G is dumb and meaningless, as we see with AT&T calling their network 5G (E), even though it's no better than what their competitors call 4G.

Also, it's disingenuous to describe the jump as from 200kbps to 1Gbps, since HSDPA offering 14Mbps was already being deployed prior to when this particular ITU standard came out.

(https://www.gsma.com/aboutus/gsm-technology indicates deployments of HSDPA started in 2005)

Re:AT&T’s “5G E” is slower than Verizon and T-Mobile 4G, stu... by rayiner on Saturday March 23, 2019 @09:00AM (#19470267)
To consumers, 5G just means sufficiently faster than 4G to warrant a new number. “5G” presents an odd scenario, because there are parallel lines of evolution from what consumers currently think of as “4G.” LTE Advance Pro continues to evolve LTE, while 5G NR starts over with an incompatible air interface. Until you start using higher frequency spectrum and small cells, performance wise there is a lot of overlap between the two. An LTE Advance Pro network with a lot of spectrum is going to perform better than a 5GNR network without as much spectrum.

The problem here appears to be not that AT&T is departing from the ITU monikers, or using 5G to refer to LTE Advance Pro, but that it’s selling something as “5G” that’s not faster than “4G.”

Re:AT&T’s “5G E” is slower than Verizon and T-Mobile 4G, stu... by joecool1029 on Saturday March 23, 2019 @03:05AM (#19469392)
>The ITU IMT standards are dumb and meaningless.

The last time AT&T did this the ITU's response was "4G can now also be 3G with 'substantial improvements'"

Source: http://www.itu.int/net/pressoffice/press_releases/2010/48.as...

Re:AT&T’s “5G E” is slower than Verizon and T-Mobile 4G, stu... by milankragujevic on Saturday March 23, 2019 @06:06AM (#19469838)
LTE does achieve up to 100 Mbps on a highway for me in Serbia, and LTE Advanced does up to 150 Mbps while stationary in a crowded city area with a base station far away. However, that is nowhere near 1 Gbps. I don't know any devices getting over 300 Mbps over LTE Advanced (4G+).
Re:AT&T’s “5G E” is slower than Verizon and T-Mobile 4G, stu... by votepaunchy on Friday March 22, 2019 @08:39PM (#19468253)
4G was originally supposed to be gigabit before carriers started branding LTE as 4G.
Re:AT&T’s “5G E” is slower than Verizon and T-Mobile 4G, stu... by toast0 on Saturday March 23, 2019 @02:09AM (#19469275)
LTE was supposed to be 4G, before carriers starting branding HSPA+ as 4G.
Re:AT&T’s “5G E” is slower than Verizon and T-Mobile 4G, stu... by ken on Saturday March 23, 2019 @03:52PM (#19472051)
They seem to be branding LTE as even better than 4G. My phone has an "LTE" indicator on top most of the time, but it switches to "4G" when I'm in a basement parking garage with lousy reception.

I'm not sure what these terms mean, and the phone/service didn't exactly come with a user manual.

Re:AT&T’s “5G E” is slower than Verizon and T-Mobile 4G, stu... by mciancia on Friday March 22, 2019 @08:14PM (#19468141)
I can easily get over 100Mbps on LTE, this is what I'm getting now: https://www.speedtest.net/result/a/4793874317
Re:AT&T’s “5G E” is slower than Verizon and T-Mobile 4G, stu... by throwaway663 on Friday March 22, 2019 @10:05PM (#19468607)
Nice. Can I get this all over Krakow on a tourist Sim?
Re:AT&T’s “5G E” is slower than Verizon and T-Mobile 4G, stu... by mamon on Saturday March 23, 2019 @12:03AM (#19469004)
When it comes to this "Play" carrier in Poland high speeds are for contracts, prepaid SIMs are limited to 70 Mbps
Re:AT&T’s “5G E” is slower than Verizon and T-Mobile 4G, stu... by amanaplanacanal on Friday March 22, 2019 @08:19PM (#19468164)
Ookla just told me I am getting 85Mbps download and 11Mbps upload on AT&T LTE.
Re:AT&T’s “5G E” is slower than Verizon and T-Mobile 4G, stu... by Consultant32452 on Friday March 22, 2019 @11:09PM (#19468823)
76 down, 49 up with Google Fi on a Pixel 2 for me
Re:AT&T’s “5G E” is slower than Verizon and T-Mobile 4G, stu... by sundvor on Saturday March 23, 2019 @12:47AM (#19469103)
I got a 312 Mbit download Speed test the other day on my S10+. I will not be accepting Telstra's free Samsung S10 5g upgrade offer.
Re:AT&T’s “5G E” is slower than Verizon and T-Mobile 4G, stu... by chungy on Friday March 22, 2019 @08:06PM (#19468098)
This probably depends heavily on where you live, but I can easily get ~150 Mbps up and down on LTE, in Washington state.
Re:AT&T’s “5G E” is slower than Verizon and T-Mobile 4G, stu... by dawnerd on Saturday March 23, 2019 @01:05AM (#19469145)
I can get around 100 here with my Verizon hotspot.

https://www.speedtest.net/my-result/i/3127192452

Most places seem to be around the 40mbps mark but when visiting SoCal it drops to anywhere from 2mbps to 30.

Re:AT&T’s “5G E” is slower than Verizon and T-Mobile 4G, stu... by JustSomeNobody on Friday March 22, 2019 @08:41PM (#19468262)
I'm on AT&T (personal phone) and I get 4.5M bits down on LTE. My Verizon LTE (work phone) gets very similar. Both are iPhones and completely up to date.

I could be near enough to the towers that my fillings start to ache and I still can't get any faster.

Re:AT&T’s “5G E” is slower than Verizon and T-Mobile 4G, stu... by MBCook on Friday March 22, 2019 @09:57PM (#19468575)
My record with Verizon is 104 down and 35 up. It all seems to depend on how busy the tower is and how good the backhaul is.
Re:AT&T’s “5G E” is slower than Verizon and T-Mobile 4G, stu... by kakarot on Friday March 22, 2019 @11:33PM (#19468904)
I get about 2mbit w/ 4G LTE on a ~$50 plan... For the first week my phone showed 80-115mbit but that didn't last.

My carrier tells me that in order to downgrade my plan I would have to first cancel my phone number and wait a month.

Re:AT&T’s “5G E” is slower than Verizon and T-Mobile 4G, stu... by ineedasername on Friday March 22, 2019 @11:47PM (#19468949)
I get 18mbit down, 4 up on the lowest end pre-paid tmobile plan. But I'm also in the suburbs of large metro areas where the networks are fairly well built out. However, this is one of the reasons I pay full price on my phone and stick to pre paid. Lot's more flexibility to up stakes and move to a different carrier if they start downgrading service.
Re:AT&T’s “5G E” is slower than Verizon and T-Mobile 4G, stu... by kakarot on Saturday March 23, 2019 @12:00AM (#19468994)
I'm on prepaid but I'm paying for data consumption I just don't utilize given the abysmal speeds. I have to use a mobile VPN just to achieve decent peering.

Basically to get around this absurd policy I have to switch to another carrier and back over two months. However, I don't plan to switch back once I make the jump.

In the last year I've traveled to a couple states and a few dozen cities and I had garbage speed and latency in all of them. T-Mobile's solution was that I buy a new phone. But the phone achieved 100mbit when I first got my plan.

Re:AT&T’s “5G E” is slower than Verizon and T-Mobile 4G, stu... by madeofpalk on Friday March 22, 2019 @09:01PM (#19468353)
Just got 140Mbps in London https://i.imgur.com/DFpZAg8.png
Re:AT&T’s “5G E” is slower than Verizon and T-Mobile 4G, stu... by hunter on Friday March 22, 2019 @08:12PM (#19468129)
Blame your carrier. I get 82Mbps in upload and 10Mbps in download. Can't complain for €6/month.
Re:AT&T’s “5G E” is slower than Verizon and T-Mobile 4G, stu... by TomMarius on Saturday March 23, 2019 @07:31AM (#19470023)
My phone regularly downloads faster than 50 Mb/s during peak. Good enough for me. (Prague, CZ)
Re:AT&T’s “5G E” is slower than Verizon and T-Mobile 4G, stu... by eeeeeeeeeeeee on Saturday March 23, 2019 @12:01AM (#19468996)
I am in downtown Denver Colorado and can’t even reach 10Mbps on 4G LTE (Att).

In the Czech Republic, on a prepaid SIM card, I received around 50Mbps, many years ago.

I have zero trust in these wireless generation differences. There are so many other variables in end-user speed.

Re:AT&T’s “5G E” is slower than Verizon and T-Mobile 4G, stu... by hijinks on Saturday March 23, 2019 @12:06AM (#19469015)
I'm 15 minutes south of Denver and outside my house I barely get 2 bars of LTE and speeds are awful.
Re:AT&T’s “5G E” is slower than Verizon and T-Mobile 4G, stu... by EnderWT on Saturday March 23, 2019 @01:08AM (#19469148)
Centennial here - 9Mbps download / 0.9Mbps upload
Re:AT&T’s “5G E” is slower than Verizon and T-Mobile 4G, stu... by peapicker on Saturday March 23, 2019 @05:19AM (#19469726)
I’m in Centennial and get ~45Mbps down 7Mbps up with Verizon. Who are you with?
Re:AT&T’s “5G E” is slower than Verizon and T-Mobile 4G, stu... by innocenat on Saturday March 23, 2019 @01:23AM (#19469183)
Most of the time you can feel the difference in "wireless generation differences." But USA isn't one of them.
Re:AT&T’s “5G E” is slower than Verizon and T-Mobile 4G, stu... by eli on Friday March 22, 2019 @09:11PM (#19468411)
The “G” standards have always been more marketing than anything else. This whole scandal already happened when some carriers decided to call EDGE “3G”
Re:AT&T’s “5G E” is slower than Verizon and T-Mobile 4G, stu... by arcticbull on Friday March 22, 2019 @09:16PM (#19468433)
AT&T also tried to call HSPA+ 4G while Verizon had LTE, and switched the indicators on the iPhone IIRC.
Re:AT&T’s “5G E” is slower than Verizon and T-Mobile 4G, stu... by rayiner on Friday March 22, 2019 @09:07PM (#19468392)
“5G” isn’t a well defined term. In theory, it includes both LTE and 5GNR (the OFDM based “new radio” air interface) on parallel tracks: https://www.edn.com/5G/4458325/What-is-5G-NR
Re:AT&T’s “5G E” is slower than Verizon and T-Mobile 4G, stu... by pyk on Friday March 22, 2019 @08:05PM (#19468094)
5GNR (3GPP release 15) is the official globally recognized standard for 5G. Guessing 3GPP has some loose enforcement but not sure.

http://www.3gpp.org/release-15

Re:AT&T’s “5G E” is slower than Verizon and T-Mobile 4G, stu... by joecool1029 on Friday March 22, 2019 @08:52PM (#19468312)
In the US, ITU will just move the goalposts for 4G like they did for 3G when AT&T changed the hspa+ indicator to 4G.

3GPP has no teeth here.

Re:AT&T’s “5G E” is slower than Verizon and T-Mobile 4G, stu... by dontbenebby on Friday March 22, 2019 @09:06PM (#19468389)
> Are there rules for enforcing (and by whom?) the term “5G”? Or is it like the word “natural” for health food?

Alternatively, they can slowly phase out 4g like they did with 3G. This is very useful if you have pesky customers stuck on cheap all you can eat data plans.

The paranoid part of me wonders if it'll be an excuse to shunt people off of cheap plans.

Re:AT&T’s “5G E” is slower than Verizon and T-Mobile 4G, stu... by arcticbull on Friday March 22, 2019 @09:18PM (#19468436)
The scam is much more obvious, AT&T wants to show everyone that they have 5G while everyone else has 4G, and that’s one extra G.
Re:AT&T’s “5G E” is slower than Verizon and T-Mobile 4G, stu... by reaperducer on Saturday March 23, 2019 @12:52AM (#19469117)
Alternatively, they can slowly phase out 4g like they did with 3G. This is very useful if you have pesky customers stuck on cheap all you can eat data plans.

The funny thing is that all that used 3G gear, at least the good stuff, seems to have gone to the deeply rural areas.

I know a few towns that, as recently as last month, only have 3G service. But the data speeds I get roaming there on 3G are almost double what I get at home on AT&T with full bars of LTE.