News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Italy bans unvaccinated children from school by tw04 on Monday March 18, 2019 @02:30PM (#19423710)
>For example, they must be required by law to publish all studies on drug safety-- both positive, and negative results. That's currently not required, they're allowed to cherry-pick results!

Why? The alternatives in pretty much all cases are death. Which side effect is better than your child being dead? Or mine for that matter because the collective you (not you personally) decided that risking polio was better than the 1 in 10 billion chance you had an adverse reaction to a vaccine.

We've literally eradicated diseases that could have wiped out the entire human race and now we've got idiots trying their hardest to bring them back.

If parents want to have the "choice" to vaccinate their children, then they should also be held legally liable for ANYONE that gets sick as a result of that choice. Whether it's their own kid or an outbreak in the area they live.

Re:Italy bans unvaccinated children from school by majewsky on Monday March 18, 2019 @02:38PM (#19423805)
> Which side effect is better than your child being dead?

This is a very simplistic view given the probabilities involved. For a drastic example, consider a hypothetical treatment that can perfectly prevent a disease that would otherwise kill 1% of those who are treated, but it will blind 100% of them. It's hard to argue that this is a better outcome.

Re:Italy bans unvaccinated children from school by tw04 on Monday March 18, 2019 @03:14PM (#19424164)
But that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about available vaccines and none of them cause blindness. And the rates of death are far higher than 1%. The probabilities involved are ridiculously in favor of vaccination. Literally the exact opposite of what you claim.

Making up completely ridiculous examples to just justify anti-vaxxer idiocy should stay on Facebook.

Re:Italy bans unvaccinated children from school by irondruid on Monday March 18, 2019 @04:52PM (#19425158)
<< We're talking about available vaccines and none of them cause blindness.

Quick Google Search: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22989339

Re:Italy bans unvaccinated children from school by chrisbennet on Monday March 18, 2019 @06:51PM (#19426162)
“Reversible blindness in bilateral optic neruritis associated with nasal flu vaccine.“

Reversable - the tiny chance of a reversable condition vs contributing to the death of others. Can you be more selfish?

Re:Italy bans unvaccinated children from school by irondruid on Monday March 18, 2019 @07:35PM (#19426457)
Previous comment 1) Burden of proof 2) Single cause

You 1) Moving the goalposts 2) Illicit Major 3) Ad hominem https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies

Re:Italy bans unvaccinated children from school by bzbarsky on Monday March 18, 2019 @03:30PM (#19424331)
> The alternatives in pretty much all cases are death.

Is this a serious claim about currently-required vaccines? Including the one for varicella, say?

Vaccines have a _lot_ of benefits; my kids are certainly vaccinated for all sorts of things (including varicella, though that was a bit of a tough call for me). But overselling those benefits with blanket claims like "the alternative to being vaccinated is death" is not a good way to get the "everyone should be vaccinated" position to be taken seriously.

Re:Italy bans unvaccinated children from school by leftyted on Monday March 18, 2019 @04:26PM (#19424886)
> Why? The alternatives in pretty much all cases are death.

This seems like a huge exaggeration to me. There's a chickenpox vaccine nowadays which wasn't widely available when I was a kid. As a result, my siblings and I all contracted chickenpox at one point or another. Chickenpox is only very rarely a serious illness for children.

Even with regard to more serious illnesses that have been made rare by vaccination (measles and mumps), death is quite rare (less than 1% according to wikipedia).

Overall, I find your tone a bit disturbing. I'm very pro-vaccine, but I sometimes wonder if a kinder, gentler approach wouldn't be more effective. When you yell at people, they are much less likely to listen to you. When you use dishonest arguments like you've done here you just provide anti-vaxxers with ammunition.

Re:Italy bans unvaccinated children from school by orbifold on Monday March 18, 2019 @04:51PM (#19425148)
Some diseases are not a big deal for most children but can outright kill others. They are sometimes really dangerous to any adult and typically all kinds of immune compromised people. Herd immunity is in some cases the only way they can be protected.
Re:Italy bans unvaccinated children from school by leftyted on Monday March 18, 2019 @04:57PM (#19425208)
> Some diseases are not a big deal for most children but can outright kill others.

This is exactly what I wrote, isn't it? The person I was responding to wrote:

> The alternatives in pretty much all cases are death. Which side effect is better than your child being dead?

I'm not arguing against vaccinations. I'm arguing against exaggeration.

Re:Italy bans unvaccinated children from school by orbifold on Monday March 18, 2019 @05:11PM (#19425356)
My point is that even if a disease is not dangerous to everyone it is worth to vaccinate everyone so that the rest benefits from herd immunity. In the cases where a disease is not dangerous to most children but dangerous to most adults things are even more complicated because once you have vaccinated sufficiently many people the disease becomes rare so it is more likely that someone unvaccinated contracts it as an adult.
Re:Italy bans unvaccinated children from school by RobertRoberts on Monday March 18, 2019 @09:56PM (#19427382)
> Some diseases are not a big deal for most children but can outright kill others.

And some vaccines are not a big deal for most children but can outright kill others.

Don't you think a scientific view of the cost/benefits of vaccines should be common narrative?

Re:Italy bans unvaccinated children from school by deytempo on Monday March 18, 2019 @05:07PM (#19425331)
That’s an interesting idea. Make it so anyone who knowingly goes into a public place with a contagious illness is held legally responsible for it.