Single dad, night-person here—I far prefer working at night once the kids are in bed over trying to squeeze meaningful productivity in between school hours, dinner, activities, father-son time, etc. I've trained myself to do something from 9-4, as those are my remaining school-age son's school hours, but it's nowhere near as satisfying as working at night when the world is asleep.

No that's bogus. I have three kids and am very much a night person.

Usually in bed around 2.

Are you responsible for getting your kids to school? The average US school day starts at 8 AM.

In my country kids use their foot to get to the school, even small kids (usually starting at 9 years when afterschool care is not available anymore). Maybe you should start structuring your society in a way that allows people without cars to get around if you don't like that, or move to Europe.

Wow, I don't know if the negativity is warranted here, but for me (and my kids walk to school), getting the kids ready involves making sure the young kids get properly dressed, breakfasted, lunch packed, etc... Transportation is not always the issue.

I didn't want to be negative, sorry. Kids generally are able to do all of what you saod when they're 9 years old. I've seen that American families often belittle their kids and are afraid to make them responsible.

Your mileage may vary. I grew up In New York City and was fine getting myself ready and taking an hour on public transport to school every day, but New York is an outlier amongst US cities. Even my friends who grew up in the suburbs just outside New York needed their parents to be chauffeurs and butlers for them.

Not just the US, UK is the same, when I was 9 (1989) I had to cross two busy roads to get to school and it was considered entirely normal to walk to school alone.

Now in 2019 at the same age (9) letting my step-son do the same would be considered by a lot of parents to be borderline child abuse.

I’m treating him the same way my parents treat me, if he wants to make his mum a cup of tea (novelty hasn’t worn off) I’ll let him (with supervision at a distance), I’m not coddling him at his age I had full access to my father and grandfather sheds/garages and tools - by comparison a kettle isn’t a big deal.

In New Zealand this is illegal while they’re under 14.

Whereas, when I grew up, pretty much from 7+ you were expected to be able to go visit your friends, get to school, etc. without all the ceremony and scheduling required today.

Yep, it's hard to avoid the "back in my day" feel but there is a qualitative difference in how we are raising current generations here, Daniel is vastly less self-sufficient than I was at the same age.

Yes. Kids 1 needs to be on the bus at 722 for the other two at 830.

So you aren't really a night person, you just don't sleep very much.

No, I'm a night person alright, but my choice to be a member of society in good standing forces me to not sleep very much.

That's the problem.

What happens if you try going to bed at 11pm?

For me, the "night owl" manifests as clarity of mind. My mind feels clearer as the day progresses and clearest during the evenings. If I try waking up at 6:00 AM or something early like that, I'm foggy all day until ~10 PM when I should be getting to sleep, then I'm exhausted with a clarity I hadn't had all day so I don't even want to sleep, I want to do something.

It's like, when the sun is down, my brain is ready to be super productive.

Depends on the day. Most times I try I'll lay there tossing around or staring at the window for a few hours.

Does your spouse take charge for the kids' morning and night routines?

Do you feel you spend quality play time with your kids as they grow up?

Do you feel you get enough time to be intimate with your partner?

Here's the problem with your questions. I could answer in whatever way suits my argument and you'd have no real response. You want me to give input to your hypotheses, but I'm not going to play that game.

So instead of answering these, because your list of tasks that imply my life is deficient by your standard could go on forever, it makes more sense for you to argue whatever position you are taking directly.

as a family obligated person, i think there is a demand. And i think it could help parents, one parent could work early or half a day, then come home take over child care, and then the other parent can do a full 2 - 10, 8 hour day without the need for day care or some.

i know people that dont do the math, and actually work to pay for the daycare...

That schedule might work for "parenting" but would be horrible for the relationship of the couple. People often try to view parenting solutions in isolation and forget that this is the lives of 3+ people we're discussing. It's the same as work to pay for daycare. If a stay at home parent works 2-3 days per week, and their income only covers the expenses of going to work, they still get benefits. They stay in the job market without a multi-year break, in my country they accrue superannuation payments, and it gets them out of the house with a break from the kids (parenting constantly is hard mentally).

I don't think you can say with any level of certainty that such a schedule would be horrible for a couple's relationship in general, or as a rule. Relationships are all very different, as are the people involved in them. I'd bet plenty of couples would find flexible work hours to have a number of helpful, positive side effects on their parenting and their relationships.

Are you a parent? I am, and every parent I've ever spoken to has said how difficult maintaining a relationship with your partner is when you have young children. If you make it so that your schedule means you never see each other than this will be even worse. The trope of a parent to young children is a tired, worn out, exhausted person and the above schedule is going to give these parents even less time together and virtually zero support while parenting.

Yes, I am a parent.

> I know people that dont do the math, and actually work to pay for the daycare

One parent staying home to avoid paying for daycare will generally permenantly depress that person’a income, long after the kids no longer need daycare. Even if you’re just breaking even on working with paying for daycare, you’ll make more money in the long run after you stop paying for daycare.

Kid #2, who still won’t sleep through the night at 6 months, pushed me into the get to bed at 10/wake up at 5:30 routine, because that’s his routine.

All of those articles are a) single or b) rich or c) young people with no families (and combinations of those) signaling how motivated and what hard workers they're in...

There's also a reason why we see them from privileged (usually white) people in cushy careers (or in pursuit of such), and we don't e.g. read a black single mother, walking up at a 5am everyday and working her ass off two jobs till late, just to make ends meet blogging such BS...

Broke people with no job or shift work also do the 2-10 thing.

Yeah, but they don't post what winners they are for doing so, and how it changed their productivity...

Well, I'm not exactly white (surely not in the WASP sense, in fact KKK used to really dislike us), nor mob, and hardly come from any privileged background (dad was a low-pay commercial sailor, grandpa worked at the buffet at hotels), but yes.

They also have many other perks.

Didn't say you were white or call you out specifically either but thanks for proving my point.

You might like to think you're not part of aninternet mob right now but the downvotes on my post say otherwise.

Could you please stop posting unsubstantive comments to Hacker News?

Also, if you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and follow the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it. (The last sentence of your comment breaks them.)

Or perhaps it's HN working as always and people disagreeing?

A heavily downvoted post is not exactly a "mob" (any more than a heavily upvoted one would be).

People threatening or calling you names, or demanding your job, etc, would be a mob.

I also get lots of downvotes when my opinion is not popular (which is easy, I'm not very fond of what I consider the fads of the era, or mainstream opinions on most things). But I wouldn't call it a "mob" in ordinary HN cases.

We home school and all get to bed at 2am and get up around 10am :)