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Re:Digitally preview incoming USPS mail and packages by crazygringo on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @12:02PM (#19311984)
I tried signing up for this 3 months ago, and was shocked to receive images for the mail of literally everyone in my building (I'm one of seven apartments).

Huuuge privacy violation. (It's just images of the envelopes, but that still tells you a lot.)

I unsubscribed and then went to file feedback, and got an immediate reply explaining this was by design:

> Thank you for participating in Informed Delivery®. You recently reported that you are receiving images for other units in your apartment complex. This is due to the fact that your unit/complex is not coded down to a unique delivery point barcode, which is a requirement for this service.

> In order for the feature to provide mail images to the appropriate recipient(s), each multi-unit building on each carrier route must be individually identified and coded to the unit level. While most addresses are coded at this level, this coding process, especially in high density areas, is a work in progress. If you live in multi-unit building and you have successfully registered on usps.com ®, but the sign up process indicates that you do not have an eligible address, we are unable to offer you the feature until the coding is complete. Please check back at a later date.

It seems insane that if my building isn't "coded" I see everyone's mail instead of nobody's.

And it's not like I'm in the middle of nowhere -- I'm in Brooklyn, half a block away from an express train stop. And the post office knows about our different addresses -- I mean, they deliver mail directly into our individual locked mailboxes.

Re:Digitally preview incoming USPS mail and packages by jsight on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @12:25PM (#19312198)
It sounds like they are saying it is not by design, but a mistake that they allowed you to sign up when your location isn't yet meeting the requirements.

At least that is how I read the line about "unable to offer[...]until the coding is complete".

Re:Digitally preview incoming USPS mail and packages by CharlesColeman on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @01:47PM (#19313017)
> It sounds like they are saying it is not by design, but a mistake that they allowed you to sign up when your location isn't yet meeting the requirements.

Yeah, IIRC they don't support this feature for PO boxes, but I managed to accidentally get it for mine when I filed a change of address form.

I regularly see notifications for mail really indented for a few other PO boxes. It's pretty clear that their automated sorting equipment is not perfect, and that they're relying on the postman to do a final quality-control check.

This is actually an improvement from several years ago, when I'd actually sometimes get the mis-sorted mail in my box. Now that hardly ever happens.

Re:Digitally preview incoming USPS mail and packages by inferiorhuman on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @04:12PM (#19314295)
Yeah, IIRC they don't support this feature for PO boxes, but I managed to accidentally get it for mine when I filed a change of address form.

I use this with my PO box just fine. The problem is that the pictures are taken at the sorting center not at your local post office. So when things get really busy you'll get the picture a day or two before the letter ends up in your box.

Re:Digitally preview incoming USPS mail and packages by CharlesColeman on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @04:18PM (#19314347)
They may have changed it. When I initially signed up, I tried to add the PO Box explicitly, but they rejected it as unsupported.
Re:Digitally preview incoming USPS mail and packages by lwf on Wednesday March 06, 2019 @12:27AM (#19316577)
That's strange, especially since every PO box* is in fact a unique ZIP+4, so more than meets the "unique delivery point" requirement.

For example, the full ZIP+4 of "PO BOX 391234, CAMBRIDGE MA 02139" is "02139-1234".

Re:Digitally preview incoming USPS mail and packages by Spooky23 on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @07:49PM (#19315582)
It’s not the postman, it’s that physical addresses get aligned with the stop on a mail route and other types of delivery do not.
Re:Digitally preview incoming USPS mail and packages by PaulHoule on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @01:34PM (#19312889)
I live in a rural area on a plot of land that has two houses and a total of three housing units on it.

We get our mail in one mailbox.

When I signed up for Informed Delivery I was told that I couldn't get it because I was an improperly coded housing complex.

I asked my postmistress about it and she told me that that was because we get the mail in one box and that we could have it coded correctly if we got three boxes.

The system worked in my case.

Re:Digitally preview incoming USPS mail and packages by Scoundreller on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @05:34PM (#19314897)
Drill a few more slots into the same bin and label each one “separately”.
Re:Digitally preview incoming USPS mail and packages by dvtrn on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @09:07PM (#19315898)
I was gonna suggest throwing some slabs of balsa wood in the box depending on how big it is and call that a 'separation'. I like your method better, involves power drill. Tim Taylor noise
Re:Digitally preview incoming USPS mail and packages by jonas21 on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @01:03PM (#19312563)
> And the post office knows about our different addresses -- I mean, they deliver mail directly into our individual locked mailboxes.

Well... your mail carrier knows about the different addresses. This doesn't mean that the USPS has this information in their system.

Re:Digitally preview incoming USPS mail and packages by lacey on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @12:08PM (#19312030)
I had a similar experience after moving a year ago. I kept receiving the emails for mail going to my previous address.

This was despite my having filed a change of address.

I suggested that this was a privacy problem and was told that it was my responsibility to stop the emails if I didn’t want to continue receiving them. After two or three more back-and-forth emails I still had absolutely no acknowledgement from them that this is a problem.

Re:Digitally preview incoming USPS mail and packages by Spooky23 on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @07:52PM (#19315601)
It isn’t a problem.

The outer envelope isn’t private by design and law. It’s metadata that is open to whomever sees it.

Re:Digitally preview incoming USPS mail and packages by ams6110 on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @02:59PM (#19313684)
I frequently get actual mail addressed to my neighbors, so IMO that's a worse problem than seeing the images of the envelopes or packages.

I also don't know what problem this really solves. Grasping at straws for the USPS to remain relevant I think. Big waste of money in my opinion.

Re:Digitally preview incoming USPS mail and packages by jedberg on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @08:28PM (#19315756)
I’ve had it for a long time now. Things it helps me with:

When I’m on vacation and have a mail hold, I still know what mail cane each day. If I see a bill I know to log in and pay the bill.

I know if I have an important letter and whether it’s worth rushing to empty the box for the day.

A few times I knew to go ask the neighbors if they had my mail because I saw a letter was supposed to come but didn’t.

Also it tells you about packages that are coming that day so you can make sure you get them and that they weren’t stolen by a porch pirate.

Re:Digitally preview incoming USPS mail and packages by astura on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @09:48PM (#19316061)
>Big waste of money in my opinion.

Mail is scanned and archived anyway, and has been for years. This service merely let's you see the images they already have on hand. It costs not very much extra to add a customer side to an already existing system.

It's useful for people whose mailbox is down the street and it's useful to know if your mail is getting misdirected.

Re:Digitally preview incoming USPS mail and packages by kevingadd on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @04:14PM (#19314315)
They already have the mail images from their sorting machines, so it doesn't cost them much to email the images to you.
Re:Digitally preview incoming USPS mail and packages by brewdad on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @06:26PM (#19315178)
I signed up for it after my letter carrier misdelivered two pieces of my mail in less than two weeks after having maybe one mistake in the previous decade. I think my post office stopped using the same carrier on the same route everyday and instead tried some sort of "load-balancing" scheme where a carrier's route can change based on mail volumes.

By seeing the mail I should be receiving, I know to talk to m neighbors if it doesn't show up in my box within the next day or two. We continue to have delivery issues about every couple of months.

Re:Digitally preview incoming USPS mail and packages by xfitm3 on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @06:25PM (#19315175)
I think this is intended to improve reliability. Having an image taken at some point in the process can identify issues pre and post sort. Maybe even provide evidence that mail was postmarked at a specific time.
Re:Digitally preview incoming USPS mail and packages by PascLeRasc on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @03:32PM (#19313947)
It solves the problem of wasted energy delivering mail people don't want, like junk mail/spam. I'd be very interested to see how much wasted paper and gas goes into producing and delivering junk mail. Mail processing centers already use computer vision to see where a parcel's going instead of manually sorting, so this is a logical step forward.
Re:Digitally preview incoming USPS mail and packages by 0xffff2 on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @05:56PM (#19315025)
>It solves the problem of wasted energy delivering mail people don't want, like junk mail/spam.

Even if that was true, which it isn't as far as I can tell, that would be counter to the USPS's goals. They make a lot of their money delivering junk mail.

Re:Digitally preview incoming USPS mail and packages by ada1981 on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @05:26PM (#19314852)
How does this stop junk mail ?

I have this and get an email every day showing me a bunch of mail I don’t want or need.

Re:Digitally preview incoming USPS mail and packages by PascLeRasc on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @06:55PM (#19315327)
My mistake. I thought the point was to let you choose to discard mail before receiving it.
Re:Digitally preview incoming USPS mail and packages by ada1981 on Wednesday March 06, 2019 @07:06AM (#19318254)
That would be awesome, but it’s just a dark foreshadowing of the junk to come.
Re:Digitally preview incoming USPS mail and packages by ilaksh on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @08:28PM (#19315760)
I think it's helpful for PO boxes or when the mailbox is far from the house.
Re:Digitally preview incoming USPS mail and packages by Androider on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @12:35PM (#19312323)
I also received images from my previous apartment for the new tenants long after moving (yes I did file a move notice with USPS). But then I also keep receiving the physical mail for the previous tenant at my new apartment even 6 months after moving, despite crossing out their addresses and dropping it in the mailbox, and even talking to the postman (didn't help, it's always a different person). That seems like a bigger problem.
Re:Digitally preview incoming USPS mail and packages by gergles on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @02:17PM (#19313294)
There is no feedback loop for most mail you don't want. Anything "standard" (or "STD") in the postage area will just be thrown away if you put it back in the mail stream. You'll also have to deal with every catalog being sent to "OR CURRENT RESIDENT".

The prior owners of my place still get on average 9-10 pieces of mail a week here, and I just have to throw it all out. If one sender is especially egregious, I will contact them and demand they stop mailing to my address, but this is a slow process. (The prior owners refused to submit change of address forms, and when I contacted them they specifically said "we get too much junk mail and we want less of it!")

Re:Digitally preview incoming USPS mail and packages by JoshTriplett on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @02:24PM (#19313366)
> (The prior owners refused to submit change of address forms, and when I contacted them they specifically said "we get too much junk mail and we want less of it!")

I don't submit change of address forms, as the USPS sells the data from those to spammers.

I do, however, systematically call and cancel any sources of spam, as well as redirecting any mail I actually want.

Re:Digitally preview incoming USPS mail and packages by dmckeon on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @10:29PM (#19316192)
> I don't submit change of address forms, as the USPS sells the data from those to spammers.

It may no longer be valid, but at one time there was a hack for this - permanent COAs were sold, on 9-track tape, IIRC, but temporary COAs were not sold, but just kept on file at the local post office, so one could just submit a temp. COA every six months (the maximum duration of a temp. COA).

Re:Digitally preview incoming USPS mail and packages by Spooky23 on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @08:08PM (#19315670)
It’s sort of a futile gesture, as DMV sells a real-time feed to multiple parties.
Re:Digitally preview incoming USPS mail and packages by niij on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @07:26PM (#19315477)
Do you have a source for them selling that information?
Re:Digitally preview incoming USPS mail and packages by meej on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @03:57PM (#19314169)
When I lived in Seattle's Central District, my local Post Office branch had a drop box in the lobby for any mail you received that was addressed to previous residents. I used to collect anything that seemed important and I would drop it off periodically. This is not something I've seen at many other Post Offices, curiously.
Re:Digitally preview incoming USPS mail and packages by tzs on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @05:40PM (#19314939)
Interesting. We've got one labeled for misfiled mail. I'm not sure what happens if you drop mail in there that was for a previous owner of your PO box.

Speaking of misfiles, I've got a PO box in Poulsbo, WA, 98370. I received a letter that was address to that box number...but in Cleveland, TN, 37320.

How the heck could a letter end up that far off? The label was printed, not handwritten, and the printer wasn't running out of ink or skipping or anything like that. There is nothing whatsoever unclear about it, so no way was it a reading error.

Re:Digitally preview incoming USPS mail and packages by djakjxnanjak on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @03:07PM (#19313750)
Get one of these, stamp everything that isn’t addressed to you and throw it back in the box:

Return to Sender Not at This Address Self Inking Rubber Stamp (Red Ink) - Large https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0745432KW/

Re:Digitally preview incoming USPS mail and packages by astura on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @09:40PM (#19316021)
I mean... Seems pretty normal to me... in the older brownstones in the neighborhood where I grew up (and a lot of my friends still live) all mail for the entire building is pushed through the mail slot into the hallway. Everyone roots through the pile and takes their own and leaves everyone else's in the hallway.

Guess it's just what you're used to.

Re:Digitally preview incoming USPS mail and packages by woolvalley on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @05:33PM (#19314889)
At my apartment building, I only get the email for my unit's mail, not everyone's. Sounds like a bug like other people said.
Re:Digitally preview incoming USPS mail and packages by baxtr on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @12:44PM (#19312400)
Crazy. They should just tell you upfront that you don’t qualify, yet
Re:Digitally preview incoming USPS mail and packages by noja on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @04:43PM (#19314533)
HIPAA violation?
Re:Digitally preview incoming USPS mail and packages by skue on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @05:20PM (#19314802)
No. HIPAA only covers (applies to) certain entities like hospitals and insurers, not the USPS. And there’s an explicit “conduit exception” that allows covered entities to distribute protected health information via non-covered entities such as the postal service.

The FTC regulates the privacy of sharing personal data including health info by entities not covered by HIPAA, such as personal health apps. So if a govt agency wanted to investigate this, it would probably be the FTC using basic privacy laws. HIPAA wouldn’t apply.

(IANAL, just have a fair amount of experience with HIPAA & HITECH)

Edit: Added more details.

Re:Digitally preview incoming USPS mail and packages by astura on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @10:31PM (#19316200)
Rule of thumb: if it's not an insurance company or medical facility, HIPAA doesn't apply.
Re:Digitally preview incoming USPS mail and packages by wolfpwner on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @01:36PM (#19312904)
True, I live in an apartment with a roommate. I also see his incoming mails
Re:Digitally preview incoming USPS mail and packages by 0xffff2 on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @06:00PM (#19315041)
Don't you also see his incoming mail (or he yours) every time one of you checks your mailbox?
Re:Digitally preview incoming USPS mail and packages by jlarocco on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @12:39PM (#19312366)
I don't see the privacy violation. The outside of envelopes are publicly viewable by design so that they can be delivered. If you don't want others to know who's mailing you, ask the sender not to place their name and address on the envelope.

But the situation isn't hard to understand. The entire building has a single code, and the delivery guy is responsible for inserting mail into the individual lock boxes, and he reads the addresses off the envelopes to decide where it goes so he doesn't need a code.

I do agree with your sentiment, though. They know it won't work as expected, so why did they allow you to sign up?

Re:Digitally preview incoming USPS mail and packages by parent5446 on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @12:48PM (#19312434)
That's like saying if I send an email via Gmail, Google should feel free to do whatever it wants with the headers, because it's supposed to be publicly viewable so the mail server knows where it should go. (See also the NSA phone call metadata scandal.)

In reality, when you send a letter, you are placing it into the care of the postal service. Your letter is only handled by postal employees, and mailbox privacy is codified in federal law. There's clearly an expectation that the postal service is not releasing your information to third parties without your consent. The information on the outside of the envelope is not meant for, nor is it needed by, anyone other than the postal service

Re:Digitally preview incoming USPS mail and packages by jlarocco on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @01:01PM (#19312544)
That's an interesting idea, but it's not true.

Nowhere does it say that post office employees are the only ones who can handle your mail, and in reality the postal service has a ton of contractors that also handle the mail. They do stuff like bulk delivery and OCRing hand written addresses.

A friend of mine contracted with one of the companies that does the hand writing recognition, and if the computers can't recognize an address then a picture of the envelopes get sent off to a team of data entry people who see the address on a screen and type it in by hand.

It's also fairly common for delivery people to screw up and deliver mail to the wrong address, especially in large apartment complexes.

There's also nothing special about postal employees. Why would you trust them more than anybody else? They're bound by the same federal mail tampering laws as everybody else, but nothing above and beyond that.

Re:Digitally preview incoming USPS mail and packages by gowld on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @01:27PM (#19312833)
That's not true. Both your USPS envelopes and ISP/webservice headers are not protected by any law. The info can and is often shared with law enforcement based on simple request (without a warrant), if the 3rd party chooses to share -- which they often do. Sometimes Google and others have an official policy of resistance, but that's their choice, not your choice.
Re:Digitally preview incoming USPS mail and packages by mattzito on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @12:52PM (#19312461)
So, I'm a USPS informed digest customer, and while I get only my own mail, I'm surprised by how deeply the camera penetrates the envelopes (possibly due to flash?). It's not uncommon for me to be able to make out the topic of a letter simply from the shadow of the letters on the paper beneath. It's not an everyday occurrence, but happens enough that I'd be very uncomfortable if someone else had access to my informed digest.
Re:Digitally preview incoming USPS mail and packages by ncr100 on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @06:48PM (#19315303)
How about these impacts:

"When did you last receive a piece of mail from your Cancer / HIV Doctor?" -> leverage knowledge to extort patient

"When do payroll checks arrive?" -> break into building on that afternoon and steal checks