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Re:Gender pay gap shrinks when companies disclose wages by xfitm3 on Monday March 04, 2019 @01:21AM (#19299202)
I found this to be really interesting:

"The researchers were especially surprised by the way in which the companies adapted to the regulation – by slowing the growth of men’s wages, not increasing women’s."

Re:Gender pay gap shrinks when companies disclose wages by zdragnar on Monday March 04, 2019 @02:08AM (#19299372)
It seems like a given outcome, to me.

Suppose that half of your workforce makes 60% of the wages, and the other half make 40%. Suddenly, PR dictates that you need to even that out.

Your budget for salaries hasn't increased. Your other costs haven't decreased. Your projected revenues haven't increased. The money to bump the bottom half up has to come from somewhere, and with a fixed salary budget, it comes from the other half's expected raises and new hires.

Unless, of course, you have the flexibility to start rewriting all of your budgets, but that still hasn't changed the fact that both revenues and all other costs remain fixed.

Re:Gender pay gap shrinks when companies disclose wages by ganzuul on Monday March 04, 2019 @03:23AM (#19299648)
Seems like a self-fulfilling prophecy in that scenario. Equal wages is supposed to result in improved production... isn't it?
Re:Gender pay gap shrinks when companies disclose wages by coldtea on Monday March 04, 2019 @04:34AM (#19299954)
>Equal wages is supposed to result in improved production... isn't it?

No, why would they?

Re:Gender pay gap shrinks when companies disclose wages by ganzuul on Monday March 04, 2019 @07:18AM (#19300660)
Attracts better qualified personnel? More motivation? Some macroeconomic optimization where price and value mismatch results in inflation?

I don't know! \o/ Just what my intuition says.

Re:Gender pay gap shrinks when companies disclose wages by gherig4 on Monday March 04, 2019 @01:31AM (#19299235)
I experienced this first hand and as a result I departed for greener pastures. Isn't diversity a great thing when it suppresses wages, no wonder all the big boys are pushing for it.
Re:Gender pay gap shrinks when companies disclose wages by marvin on Monday March 04, 2019 @03:28AM (#19299665)
This is happening at my place right now. Leadership has dictated that priority is now to even out gender imbalances rather than giving raises. Since the women in our company are heavily skewed towards lower-paying roles (QA, customer support), this means the company will avoid giving raises to the roles that actually are in demand and have strong salary growth elsewhere. Needless to say, those of us with options have started looking.

Of course, everyone who gets a competitive offer elsewhere will get a counteroffer, so this policy only applies where it’s convenient.

Re:Gender pay gap shrinks when companies disclose wages by mcv on Monday March 04, 2019 @05:29AM (#19300197)
I don't get this kind of destructive attitude. Surely the sensible thing to do when you want more equality and women are skewed towards lower paying jobs, is to hire more women in higher paying jobs?

I'm all for paying people in lower-end jobs better, mind you, but using this as an excuse to hurt salary growth seems like it's intended to discredit the whole idea of gender equality. Well, unless the people involved are provably overpaid, like CEOs tend to be. But somehow I suspect the CEO is still getting his excessive raises.

Re:Gender pay gap shrinks when companies disclose wages by marvin on Monday March 04, 2019 @06:34AM (#19300468)
I don't think the real intention is equality at all. I think it's scoring PR points via virtue signaling, and reducing expenses as a bonus. (Who would dare oppose a move that appears to increase equality, even if it hurts their wallet?)
Re:Gender pay gap shrinks when companies disclose wages by faceplanted on Monday March 04, 2019 @06:47AM (#19300529)
> When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure

Very simply, the measure of women being paid less is useful on wide scale in demonstrating women's position in society, but it doesn't go into the complexities of the issue, so aiming to get your company more equal on that measure can mean so many things as to make it a useless target unless you understand the situation.

Re:Gender pay gap shrinks when companies disclose wages by mcv on Monday March 04, 2019 @07:57AM (#19300851)
Excellent point. Reminds me of the Bechdel Test, a simple test to show how poorly women are treated in movies. To pass the test, the movie has to have at least two named women talking to each other about something other than a man. It should be trivial to pass, yet a surprising number of movies don't.

But that test doesn't mean that movies that pass the test are better or more feminist than movies that don't. Terribly sexist/misogynist movies can still easy pass it, whereas Gravity, a movie starring only Sandra Bullock for most of its duration, doesn't pass it because there's nobody else in the movie to talk to.

Similarly, the point of calling attention to the gender wage gap should be to pay women better and give them better access to higher paying jobs, not to deny men raises.

Equality should lift people up, not push them down.

Re:Gender pay gap shrinks when companies disclose wages by iguy on Monday March 04, 2019 @02:32AM (#19299458)
The article cites a 2.5% reduction in overall wages, and a 2.5% reduction in productivity. (Or one was 2.8, but close enough). Which sounds exactly like what you suggest: the most productive employees used to get other offers, and use them to ask for raises, and now they leave, or just slack off.
Re:Gender pay gap shrinks when companies disclose wages by hopler on Monday March 04, 2019 @09:27AM (#19301463)
If you know any employees of the big boys, you'll know that management is not supportive of diversity until they face worker revolts.

Your model makes no sense. If powerful forces wanted diversity out of self interest all along, we wouldn't even have a diversity movement, because the environment would be diverse already due to natural locally optimizing market forces, so there'd be nothing to advocate for.

Re:Gender pay gap shrinks when companies disclose wages by doesnt_know on Monday March 04, 2019 @03:14AM (#19299616)
The other way to look at it was that men were artificially overvalued and the market is now correcting itself.
Re:Gender pay gap shrinks when companies disclose wages by AnthonyMouse on Monday March 04, 2019 @01:26AM (#19299223)
This is entirely unsurprising given the mechanism. Disclosure makes companies not want to give anyone a raise as an individual because then everyone else will know about it and want one too.

Then mean wages go down, but if more of the raises had been going to men then wages for men go down even more.

Re:Gender pay gap shrinks when companies disclose wages by gnicholas on Monday March 04, 2019 @02:00AM (#19299341)
Did the researchers measure employee departures? If wages stagnated in general, then one would expect that employees who are more desirable/mobile to depart. This would make it seem like wage equality went up, when in reality the people who were previously making more are still doing so — they're just doing it at a different company.
Re:Gender pay gap shrinks when companies disclose wages by iguy on Monday March 04, 2019 @02:24AM (#19299429)
They say "we find no statistically significant change in departure rates of males or females across firm hierarchies."

Have not read it closely, but "no statistically significant" need not rule out the scenario that departures drive the whole effect. It's just saying that the error bar from counting departures is large enough to include zero, while the error bars on mean salary are smaller, because everyone has a salary but only a few leave.

Re:Gender pay gap shrinks when companies disclose wages by watwut on Monday March 04, 2019 @02:31AM (#19299453)
Many companies award salaries in fuzzy way where few good negotiators people negotiate themselves larger salaries then similarly performing rest. One would think that salary disclosure helps to close such gap among men themselves bringing average lower.
Re:Gender pay gap shrinks when companies disclose wages by bsanr on Monday March 04, 2019 @01:57AM (#19299334)
A pair of scissors labeled "cynicism and greed" poised to shear the head off a crustacean labeled "meaningful societal advancement."
Re:Gender pay gap shrinks when companies disclose wages by smt88 on Monday March 04, 2019 @01:26AM (#19299219)
I'm not sure how else they would behave. Increasing the salaries of all the women would be like admitting to discrimination, wouldn't it?

Edit: I mean that instantly increasing the salaries would be like an admission.

Re:Gender pay gap shrinks when companies disclose wages by fastball on Monday March 04, 2019 @01:40AM (#19299266)
How does depressing men's wages not do the same?
Re:Gender pay gap shrinks when companies disclose wages by wvenable on Monday March 04, 2019 @01:49AM (#19299301)
There is a material difference between "paying too much" and "not paying enough". Clearly they want to be on the former side and not the latter.
Re:Gender pay gap shrinks when companies disclose wages by smt88 on Monday March 04, 2019 @01:55AM (#19299327)
They're not "depressing men's wages" -- just giving them lower raises. No one's salary suddenly went down.

If you've been underpaying women in a discriminatory way while pretending to be a meritocracy, the real fix is to pay women more.

But if you suddenly raise salaries for all the women, it proves you were never a meritocracy.

To keep up your pretense while also fixing your mistakes, your only option is to slow raises in order to restore fairness over time -- which is what they did.

The third option would be to reduce men's salaries, which of course wouldn't be possible.

Re:Gender pay gap shrinks when companies disclose wages by dba7dba on Monday March 04, 2019 @02:37AM (#19299475)
Based on what I have experienced in corporate America, this is completely expected behavior.