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Re:Jeff Bezos Turned Narrative into Amazon's Competitive Adv... by Steltek on Friday February 08, 2019 @03:44PM (#19118471)
It seems all practitioners print out all of these memos to paper. Has anyone successfully converted this tradition to a digital medium or does that invoke the spectre of PowerPoint too strongly to survive?

In my daily routine, the thought of printing anything for work seems peculiar.

Re:Jeff Bezos Turned Narrative into Amazon's Competitive Adv... by rayiner on Friday February 08, 2019 @08:12PM (#19120067)
Thinking about documents is one area in which paper is still king. I've got two 27" monitors on my desk, but when I want really think about a document I'm reading, I print it out and grab a pen. Reading things on a screen feels like having a straight jacket on. I can't put several pages next to each other. I can't put my finger on a page so I can flip back to it later. Marking anything up is an ordeal of UI getting in the way. Tablets aren't any better. Writing on glass feels wrong and the lack of friction makes it hard to write small text legibly. And their small size compounds the problem of not being able to refer to more than one page at once.
Re:Jeff Bezos Turned Narrative into Amazon's Competitive Adv... by Tempest1981 on Friday February 08, 2019 @11:52PM (#19120817)
And the two 27" displays are filled with enticing distractions.
Re:Jeff Bezos Turned Narrative into Amazon's Competitive Adv... by blablabla123 on Friday February 08, 2019 @09:20PM (#19120289)
> Reading things on a screen feels like having a straight jacket on

I feel the same, but at some point I started to do everything work-related digitally because people would often comment on this. The craziest one was someone pointing out this would lead to ideas that are too complicated.

Re:Jeff Bezos Turned Narrative into Amazon's Competitive Adv... by vb6lives on Friday February 08, 2019 @04:04PM (#19118652)
Someone will forget their laptop, or won't have wifi, or the power will die, or the link doesn't work or won't have the right pdf/doc reader, or will respond to that notification they just got distracting everyone with their clickity clack, etc.

Making the presenter bring everything needed to have a distraction free conversation is a feature, not a bug.

Re:Jeff Bezos Turned Narrative into Amazon's Competitive Adv... by justinlilly on Friday February 08, 2019 @04:55PM (#19119064)
I work at Amazon. We've tried digital on my team. It's way worse. People make more nitpicky changes and the inline-edits/auto-suggest thing makes it easy to rat-hole. Stick to paper, imo.
Re:Jeff Bezos Turned Narrative into Amazon's Competitive Adv... by otterley on Saturday February 09, 2019 @12:58PM (#19123617)
I think it varies by team. On my team, we don't use hard copies, comments are written electronically, and we have the usual post-reading-time discussion.
Re:Jeff Bezos Turned Narrative into Amazon's Competitive Adv... by natalyarostova on Saturday February 09, 2019 @02:59AM (#19121261)
People just drive-by comment on all our quip docs all the time... it's lowered the value of docs.
Re:Jeff Bezos Turned Narrative into Amazon's Competitive Adv... by sandGorgon on Saturday February 09, 2019 @12:44AM (#19120988)
could you explain what do you mean by this ? why would a Google Doc not work as well?

Any other rules of thumb for people who are trying to adopt this ?

Re:Jeff Bezos Turned Narrative into Amazon's Competitive Adv... by grogenaut on Saturday February 09, 2019 @01:25AM (#19121086)
I work at Twitch, a Subsidary. We do the 6 pager process a lot (esp when working w/ amazon). We do it with shared collab doc editors though. It's an interesting twist.

Digitally has 2 big benefits: - You can see when someone is commenting on a thing and skip down so not everyone dog piles on the same thing. - In lower level meetings you are very unlikely to have a note taker, so in digital form everyones notes are in one spot. In the paper form of the meeting you either collect / decipher everyone's notes, or you have argue/defend/explain your doc while also taking notes.

Paper is better for: - Keeping everyone focused. You don't pop that laptop until you're done marking up the doc, people often don't even bring laptops to paper doc meetings. - keeping comment arguments from forming in the margin in the digital document.

Some parts of amazon are trying to do it digitally, esp those that are remote.

Re:Jeff Bezos Turned Narrative into Amazon's Competitive Adv... by sandGorgon on Saturday February 09, 2019 @10:46AM (#19122827)
Which tool do you use and how do you run the meeting ? For example is it everyone speaking and writing simultaneously..or is it people writing during the 30 minute study time, etc ?
Re:Jeff Bezos Turned Narrative into Amazon's Competitive Adv... by grogenaut on Saturday February 09, 2019 @02:59PM (#19124242)
Amazon standards is you show up and dedicate at least 30 minutes to reading. You wait till everyone is done reading, and try not to pressure people to hurry.

The reason you do it in the meeting is that for more senior people, you have to block them off time to think about the document. Asking people to schedule another block of time to give feedback on YOUR problem is rude. As you get more senior you end up in way more meetings. It's hard for more junior people or ICs to understand in a lot of cases. If timing is hard, have them schedule you in a different slot.

You can tell in say google docs where everyone is reading wise. You can also see all the comments so you can also judge progress.

Ask questions in negative every 5-10 minutes "Does anyone need more time".

Once everyone is ready, start the meeting by going through comments from top to bottom.

After that it runs like a normal N-Pager meeting, or tech review or whatever.

I will say that with say google docs you can use suggestions and other things or say "I'll work on that". And just move on. It's rarely important to rabbit hole on the english, esp on engineering docs. If you're writing a actual PR or marketing doc, sure.

Re:Jeff Bezos Turned Narrative into Amazon's Competitive Adv... by grogenaut on Saturday February 09, 2019 @03:03PM (#19124271)
The tool is inconsequential, pick whatever works for you and that has enough adoption that you aren't spending 15 minutes getting everyone accounts at the beginning of the meeting.

The features I find useful are: - Cursor Position of readers (minor) - Comments - Suggestions (like google docs), helps with minor edits

The rest don't matter. Hell you don't even need suggestions. Comments are really about all you actually need.

Re:Jeff Bezos Turned Narrative into Amazon's Competitive Adv... by otterley on Saturday February 09, 2019 @01:00PM (#19123619)
The latter. The first half of the meeting is "quiet time" where the reading is done and reviewers take notes. The second half is where discussion occurs.
Re:Jeff Bezos Turned Narrative into Amazon's Competitive Adv... by dagw on Friday February 08, 2019 @04:11PM (#19118704)
In my daily routine, the thought of printing anything for work seems peculiar.

Anything I have to read that's more than 2-3 pages always gets printed. Especially if it's non-trivial.

Re:Jeff Bezos Turned Narrative into Amazon's Competitive Adv... by noir_lord on Friday February 08, 2019 @06:45PM (#19119700)
If I have a particulary gnarly function I didn't write that has no comments (it happens more than I like) I'll print it out and use colored pens.

It's a once/twice a week thing but nothing is as effective (I tried using my 2018 ipad/pencil but I just don't really like writing on it, the lack of surface resistance is wrong).

Re:Jeff Bezos Turned Narrative into Amazon's Competitive Adv... by stephencweiss on Friday February 08, 2019 @06:53PM (#19119736)
Random question -- how do you print code? Do you copy the file into a text editor? I've looked a few times and it seems like Sublime and VSCode both don't have a print feature...
Re:Jeff Bezos Turned Narrative into Amazon's Competitive Adv... by mroche on Friday February 08, 2019 @07:25PM (#19119860)
I mean, just save the file as .txt and open it in Notepad, TextEdit, or whatever is the default editor in your desktop environment of choice. Should have a print function.

Otherwise you could stick it in <pre> / <code> tags in an html file, open it in a browser, and print from there.

Lots of options...

Re:Jeff Bezos Turned Narrative into Amazon's Competitive Adv... by noir_lord on Saturday February 09, 2019 @03:39AM (#19121364)
I paste the function into geany (I’m on Linux) and print from there.

Usually I have IntelliJ open and it can print quite nicely.

Re:Jeff Bezos Turned Narrative into Amazon's Competitive Adv... by reificator on Friday February 08, 2019 @05:24PM (#19119266)
Not trying to fix what isn't broken, just asking:

Have you tried an ereader? I have one that's 8", has a frontlight, and runs full on Android, I use it after my no-tech nighttime threshold and during meetings. But I especially use it for any long form reading I have to do.

Re:Jeff Bezos Turned Narrative into Amazon's Competitive Adv... by grantc on Friday February 08, 2019 @05:34PM (#19119335)
Marking up documents with your notes and questions is a critical part of the process. It's ultimately why I end up preferring paper.
Re:Jeff Bezos Turned Narrative into Amazon's Competitive Adv... by reificator on Saturday February 09, 2019 @02:31PM (#19124098)
I was about to include this in my original question and decided against it, but I don't like marking up the original document. I would much rather have a separate set of notes.
Re:Jeff Bezos Turned Narrative into Amazon's Competitive Adv... by dagw on Friday February 08, 2019 @05:59PM (#19119483)
Have you tried an ereader?

I have (a cheap Kobo something or other), but it was completely useless for handling most pdf documents and slow enough when navigating a document to get really annoying. It also didn't have any support for annotating or making comments. I've kind of had my eye on this: remarkable.com, but I can't quite bring myself to spend that much. What do you have/recommend?

Re:Jeff Bezos Turned Narrative into Amazon's Competitive Adv... by reificator on Saturday February 09, 2019 @02:36PM (#19124120)
https://goodereader.com/blog/electronic-readers/boyue-likebo...

Still not the perfect device, you can see some criticisms in the review above, but it's my favorite I've seen so far. Forgot to mention it has an SD card slot in additon to 16GB internal storage, compared to, say, the Kindle Voyage which has 2GB and that's it.

Still waiting on the dream of color eink monitors, but in the meantime this will do.

EDIT: It also has a togglable faster refresh mode, which doesn't clear the screen as well but is much easier to use for scrolling/panning around.

Re:Jeff Bezos Turned Narrative into Amazon's Competitive Adv... by alkz on Friday February 08, 2019 @07:36PM (#19119912)
which ereader is that?
Re:Jeff Bezos Turned Narrative into Amazon's Competitive Adv... by reificator on Saturday February 09, 2019 @02:37PM (#19124124)
Re:Jeff Bezos Turned Narrative into Amazon's Competitive Adv... by bbgm on Friday February 08, 2019 @10:10PM (#19120446)
A lot of folks still do printed narratives, but some teams (mine) are digital now. This has become over more prevalent as our teams get more distributed.