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Re:Ask HN: Why is it easier to get a raise with a new job? by byoung2 on Thursday January 31, 2019 @01:10PM (#19047108)
I've seen it time and time again. An employee wants a 10% raise but management says no and the employee quits. Then after a long search a new hire comes in at 10% more. Why not just give the existing employee that 10%?

I think the reason is that big raises are not sustainable over time. If you keep giving your employees 10% raises every year, eventually you can't afford it. So you keep raises to 2-3% as long as possible and only give larger raises along with promotions, or when hiring a new employee.

I was fortunate to find out this pattern early in my career, and I was able to average 18% raises for over a decade by switching jobs nearly every year.

Re:Ask HN: Why is it easier to get a raise with a new job? by geezerjay on Thursday January 31, 2019 @01:47PM (#19047515)
> I think the reason is that big raises are not sustainable over time.

I would add that new hires are seen as solutions to a problem that desperately needs a solution, unlike old employees who are just there doing their work. A company looking for a new hire is not in the same negotiating position as a company that isn't.

Re:Ask HN: Why is it easier to get a raise with a new job? by P_I_Staker on Thursday January 31, 2019 @07:38PM (#19050603)
Basically, it's to rip off loyal employees. A huge percentage will just stay. It's not about paying you the money, they'll have to start paying everyone what they're worth. They'd rather just pay the extra 10% to take it of the table.
Re:Ask HN: Why is it easier to get a raise with a new job? by vonseel on Friday February 01, 2019 @01:43AM (#19052146)
> I was able to average 18% raises for over a decade by switching jobs nearly every year.

Hmm. For those curious, assuming I still understand how to do basic math like this and a few relatively low starting salaries for year one:

  40k*(1.18^10) = 209k
  60k*(1.18^10) = 314k
  80k*(1.18^10) = 418k
Are you one of these software engineers I hear about making 400k? I suppose I would find 150k-200k as more believable since your bio states you are a "remote software engineer". Or maybe you over-estimated the annual raises?
Re:Ask HN: Why is it easier to get a raise with a new job? by nfriedly on Friday February 01, 2019 @04:32AM (#19052801)
I'm also a remote software engineer, and my guess is that you're starting too high. My first job (on-site in Ohio) paid something like $7.50/hr (so ~$15k annually), and I'm now at $165k base 14 years later. That puts me in the same ballpark of 18% annually.
Re:Ask HN: Why is it easier to get a raise with a new job? by byoung2 on Friday February 08, 2019 @12:55AM (#19111906)
I started at $30k in 2004 and by 2017 I made $200k. It is about 18% on average. The biggest jumps in a single year was 2009 going from $55k to $80k in a 3 month period, 2011 going from $80k to $110k, and 2013 going from $117k to $140k by using a counteroffer.
Re:Ask HN: Why is it easier to get a raise with a new job? by tmaly on Friday February 01, 2019 @01:15PM (#19056746)
My friend asked the guy that made that 400k post on twitter. Apparently that is total compensation for people at Uber and Lyft.
Re:Ask HN: Why is it easier to get a raise with a new job? by salaryFoo on Friday February 01, 2019 @08:14AM (#19053786)
As another data-point: My day-rates as a long-term contractor which have some decent year-on-year increases from switching clients

2012 £200 (first time programming for money)

2013 £300 (new client)

2014 £425 (new client)

2015 - took a year off -

2016 £500 (new client)

2017 £650 (same client)

2018 £800 (new client)

Re:Ask HN: Why is it easier to get a raise with a new job? by apta on Friday February 01, 2019 @11:17AM (#19055373)
Do you do contracting for backend or frontend?
Re:Ask HN: Why is it easier to get a raise with a new job? by salaryFoo on Friday February 01, 2019 @01:37PM (#19057019)
devops
Re:Ask HN: Why is it easier to get a raise with a new job? by aprdm on Friday February 01, 2019 @08:20PM (#19060344)
What kind of work within devops realm do you usually contract for if you don't mind sharing
Re:Ask HN: Why is it easier to get a raise with a new job? by bkcreate on Friday February 01, 2019 @12:25PM (#19056151)
The math is correct but this doesn't factor in inflation, so you probably need to change the original salaries down to whatever $40k in todays money was worth in 2009. That leads to 34k*(1.18)^10 = 178k, which seems much more reasonable
Re:Ask HN: Why is it easier to get a raise with a new job? by IMTDb on Thursday January 31, 2019 @05:23PM (#19049588)
The other option is that after some time you notice that you actually do not need a new hire. Or that the new hire matches the needed position more than the guy that left. Or that instead of a senior dev, you hire a junior one instead.

Everyone talks about the case where it would have been better to just give the raise to the existing employee, but there are TONS of situations where the company ends up winning instead, and those are never talked about.

Re:Ask HN: Why is it easier to get a raise with a new job? by smileysteve on Thursday January 31, 2019 @11:44PM (#19051644)
In the situation with the jr dev, it works for 2-3 years, until they leave because they're not getting raises, and all of a sudden they realize that they don't know everything (a typical stage in becoming a mid-level) and now have nobody to learn from. Or, when they are getting older and realize they probably aren't long for the company because nobody has their family, values, lifestyle.
Re:Ask HN: Why is it easier to get a raise with a new job? by a_imho on Friday February 01, 2019 @03:34AM (#19052572)
I think the reason is that big raises are not sustainable over time.

The argument is turnover costs at least as much but probably more.

Re:Ask HN: Why is it easier to get a raise with a new job? by erikpukinskis on Thursday January 31, 2019 @09:05PM (#19050997)
The alternative would be to actually measure how much employees are worth, and pay them that amount minus overhead.

However, most employers have no idea how much each employee is worth, especially in engineering. The equation is basically “coder? Ok, add $50k. special coder? Ok, add another $50k. We can’t do too many of those though.”

It’s like, utterly out of touch with the actual business value that people create.

Instead, companies should actually track changes to their business, and then map those back to the person-quarters that unlocked that business.

That’s work though. And it maybe opens you up to political infighting over those attributions.

But I suspect people would be more chill about it if they were getting paid what they are worth.

And, side bonus: you’d find a bunch of people who weren’t contributing much for their pay and save a lot of money by firing them.

Other side bonus: you’d probably eliminate gender and race based pay gaps in your company and drastically increase diversity, with many of the top female and minority workers joining you because you’ll actually pay what they’re worth, not what someone like them is “traditionally” assessed for.

In the end, all of that is probably too scary for most companies. We’d rather just follow some arbitrary rules and know wer’re going to get paid, and put the whole reaponsibility for solvency on the executive team, than to take responsibility for ourselves making a real, traceable contribution to the business.

Re:Ask HN: Why is it easier to get a raise with a new job? by hopler on Thursday January 31, 2019 @10:32PM (#19051348)
An apple pie is delicious. I believe it's 17% because of the sugar, 36% because of the butter, 12% from the egg, and 45% from the apple. See the problem with your proposal?
Re:Ask HN: Why is it easier to get a raise with a new job? by jakobegger on Monday February 04, 2019 @04:39PM (#19080891)
We should clearly fire the egg.
Re:Ask HN: Why is it easier to get a raise with a new job? by byoung2 on Thursday January 31, 2019 @11:53PM (#19051683)
One big problem with your approach is when one person's value depends on another. Say I build the app but marketing doesn't sell it?