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Re:EU fines Mastercard more than half a billion euros by rfinney on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @11:26AM (#18969413)
"easily replaceable service"

Yeah. It's called "cash" and "checks".

Re:EU fines Mastercard more than half a billion euros by vvillena on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @11:36AM (#18969503)
Yeah, in the same way that a washing machine can be replaced by a river and a piece of wood.

As the parent comment explains, nearly every electronic money system in Europe uses Visa or Mastercard as a backend, creating a unhealthy duopoly. The free market needs some competition so it can thrive.

Re:EU fines Mastercard more than half a billion euros by Someone on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @04:35PM (#18972763)
”nearly every electronic money system in Europe uses Visa or Mastercard as a backend”

I think that’s nearly every credit card system. Many countries have debit card systems that, AFAIK 100% outside of Visa and MasterCard, traditionally work across most banks in the countries, and nowadays work across the Single European Payment Area (28 EU countries plus six others. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Euro_Payments_Area).

Re:EU fines Mastercard more than half a billion euros by blattimwind on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @01:32PM (#18970866)
AIUI the two largely act as a fallback and the relevant interbank network (e.g. Girocard) is used directly if possible.
Re:EU fines Mastercard more than half a billion euros by bluejekyll on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @11:36AM (#18969504)
I’ve always found the difference between cash and credit to be a wash in terms of ease of use. For cash you need to always make sure you stop by an ATM. For credit you have to wait for a receipt after nearly every transaction, and sign (this is changing with chipped cards).

But ApplePay is actually more pleasant than both. I can pay with my phone and my watch. It is a faster transaction than both cash and credit, and no need to pull my wallet out.

With one big exception! There are a few places in the city that are starting to only accept credit/applepay/etc., but when their terminals go offline, they’re screwed. I saw this exact thing, for some reason they had no backup system to accept cash. I assume this is a rare issue, but still, I couldn’t believe they couldn’t resort to cash.

Re:EU fines Mastercard more than half a billion euros by rtkwe on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @11:42AM (#18969563)
> I saw this exact thing, for some reason they had no backup system to accept cash

To accept cash as a back up you have to have all the items in place to accept it all the time basically. You need the register and to have enough cash on hand to cover giving change plus the accounting and tracking at the end of the day to make sure cash hasn't walked. So if a place has the ability to accept cash intermittently they might as well accept it always.

Re:EU fines Mastercard more than half a billion euros by dalore on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @01:47PM (#18971046)
For those that don't handle cash, they could get some sort of insurance to make up for lost business (and any brand damage) if the machines go down.
Re:EU fines Mastercard more than half a billion euros by bluejekyll on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @01:54PM (#18971139)
Yeah, I realized that something along those lines is the issue. It's still surprising when a business can't operate in a situation like this.
Re:EU fines Mastercard more than half a billion euros by e12e on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @12:03PM (#18969822)
At least in Norway most visa debit (and/or credit) cards now come with nfc/"tap" payment up to a certain amount (10-15 usd I think) - with no need for chip&pin for "Small" transactions.

Has some issues wrt theft (portable pay terminal with boosted nfc signal/antenna) - but certainly convenient.

Re:EU fines Mastercard more than half a billion euros by bryondowd on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @12:50PM (#18970396)
Most of the places here in the US seem to have gone to chip only for small payments, with a signature on amounts over some limit, dependant on merchant. Wish we'd catch up and use pins.
Re:EU fines Mastercard more than half a billion euros by bluejekyll on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @01:53PM (#18971126)
As I understand it, the major card companies all required vendors to upgrade their payment systems to use chip. If they didn't (by some date I think last year) then they moved the liability from themselves in regards to credit-card fraud to the vendor.
Re:EU fines Mastercard more than half a billion euros by colejohnson66 on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @05:59PM (#18973528)
Isn’t there an exception for gas stations?
Re:EU fines Mastercard more than half a billion euros by kyriakos on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @03:54PM (#18972355)
I can't remember how long it's been since I signed for a cc transaction. Aren't PINs used in the US?
Re:EU fines Mastercard more than half a billion euros by rfinney on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @04:23PM (#18972614)
Generally not for credit cards. It is used for debit cards. It's a problem buying gas (petrol) at unattended stations in Europe for Americans using credit cards. We don't know our PIN for credit cards.
Re:EU fines Mastercard more than half a billion euros by Domenic_S on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @12:27PM (#18970140)
> For cash you need to always make sure you stop by an ATM.

I used to get cash back at the grocery store. Very easy way to keep the wallet stocked since you're there 1-2x a week

Re:EU fines Mastercard more than half a billion euros by freeone3000 on Wednesday January 23, 2019 @10:07AM (#18978705)
The backup system in north america is a manual impression scan, where a carbon copy impression of the front of the card is made for later offline processing. Is this not available as a backup for when the electronic methods go down?
Re:EU fines Mastercard more than half a billion euros by SketchySeaBeast on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @03:46PM (#18972280)
"checks" being a clearly inferior option. While they are convenient they are fraught with fraud / bank balance issues, and add risk to the merchant and to the customer. They also take longer than any of the other options to create as well.
Re:EU fines Mastercard more than half a billion euros by seattle_spring on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @11:35AM (#18969495)
Just like Tesla would be easily replaceable with "horse" and "buggy".
Re:EU fines Mastercard more than half a billion euros by miluge on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @11:44AM (#18969584)
But Tesla doesnt have a monopoly...