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Re:Dbeaver – Multi-platform database tool by yumraj on Thursday January 17, 2019 @08:07PM (#18936178)
Perhaps, but DBeaver is free while Datagrid is not, in fact it is rather expensive at $199.

For many people, including me perhaps, something like DBeaver is good enough since it's free.

Re:Dbeaver – Multi-platform database tool by crazysim on Thursday January 17, 2019 @08:16PM (#18936224)
$90 individual

https://www.jetbrains.com/datagrip/buy/#edition=personal

But you're probably right.

Re:Dbeaver – Multi-platform database tool by neosavvy on Thursday January 17, 2019 @08:29PM (#18936296)
If you are a student it's free.

Also good tools are worth paying for, I have been a subscription user of their tools now for years.

I think it's like $199 for a subscription to the whole suite. If you are a dev (or work for someone who expects you to do dev work for pay) it's worthy spending a few of your coins on good tools.

I stare at these tools all darn day, and they rarely if ever crash. I don't regret moving away from Eclipse almost a decade ago, which used to devour all my system resources and crash and fail constantly.

Re:Dbeaver – Multi-platform database tool by rplnt on Friday January 18, 2019 @05:16AM (#18938292)
That's 2/3 of a minimal monthly salary in Bulgaria. While developers sure make much more than that (unless they are in public sector), it's still nowhere near the $100k/year starting salary you get in the Valley. And that's still EU, you can go further East...

When saying something is not expensive (few of your coins), consider that it might be just your situation where it's not expensive.

Re:Dbeaver – Multi-platform database tool by h1d on Friday January 18, 2019 @06:25PM (#18944097)
You don't need $100k / year to spend $10 a month but I see the disparity of income around the globe can mean $10 is heavier than others.
Re:Dbeaver – Multi-platform database tool by crumpets on Thursday January 17, 2019 @11:26PM (#18937028)
There are tons of tools in the open source world that are incredible and free. The assumption that you have to spend money on tools does not apply to software at all unless you are working in a proprietary ecosystem.

What is the paid version of grep/ripgrep that works better?

Re:Dbeaver – Multi-platform database tool by pjmlp on Friday January 18, 2019 @03:34AM (#18937908)
Do you expect to be paid for your work or also offer it for free and live from donations?
Re:Dbeaver – Multi-platform database tool by thejosh on Friday January 18, 2019 @12:08AM (#18937177)
>good tools are worth paying for

Not ALL tools need to be paid for.

Re:Dbeaver – Multi-platform database tool by pjmlp on Friday January 18, 2019 @03:35AM (#18937911)
Not all WORK needs to be paid for.
Re:Dbeaver – Multi-platform database tool by eitland on Friday January 18, 2019 @06:29AM (#18938572)
That is correct. Trivial example:

If I say I'll do some work for free the we can assume you don't need to pay for it.

Re:Dbeaver – Multi-platform database tool by pjmlp on Friday January 18, 2019 @07:04AM (#18938707)
Just like I should not complain if you decide not to keep doing it, when the need to pay for bills arises or I happened to abuse from your goodwill.
Re:Dbeaver – Multi-platform database tool by endorphone on Thursday January 17, 2019 @09:43PM (#18936634)
I agree wholeheartedly, and subscribe to the whole suite of JetBrains tools. Absolutely fantastic value.
Re:Dbeaver – Multi-platform database tool by h1d on Friday January 18, 2019 @06:32PM (#18944134)
Their all product pricing is pretty good value. If you need more than 2 of their tools (while using IntelliJ which covers half of their offerings), then you should switch to all products and quickly get to third year discount.

I use IntelliJ, AppCode and that already means I should be using all products pack which I'm subscribed to.

Re:Dbeaver – Multi-platform database tool by aedron on Friday January 18, 2019 @08:06AM (#18939005)
It's not the money, it's having to buy it.
Re:Dbeaver – Multi-platform database tool by tomnipotent on Thursday January 17, 2019 @09:22PM (#18936543)
> rather expensive at $199

Compared to a six-figure salary? Developers tools are a bargain for what we get out of them.

Re:Dbeaver – Multi-platform database tool by meddlepal on Thursday January 17, 2019 @10:12PM (#18936743)
Developers are hands down one of the cheapest group of customers to deal with.

I've been shelling out for IntelliJ Ultimate for years because I want to support JetBrains. At this point I think I could actually get away with just the open source Community Edition, but it's worth paying them for the effort in my mind.

Re:Dbeaver – Multi-platform database tool by nerdponx on Thursday January 17, 2019 @10:28PM (#18936812)
Is it common to buy your own tools in other skilled trades (when you aren't a freelancer)?

I don't mind buying good software, but it feels weird for me to pay in order to make my employer more money. It's not like the productivity boost I get from buying Datagrip is going to get me a raise or a better job.

That said, for software I use in my personal life I can and do pay, and I think we should all be more in the habit of either buying non-trial versions (Sublime, PyCharm) or making small monthly donations (Neovim, iTerm, regex101, QMK, et al).

Re:Dbeaver – Multi-platform database tool by dahdum on Thursday January 17, 2019 @11:03PM (#18936942)
Mechanics are often required to buy their own tools. Higher end chefs are expected buy their own knives. Machinists are expected to buy many of their own instruments.

It’s not universal but definitely not uncommon.

Re:Dbeaver – Multi-platform database tool by true_religion on Friday January 18, 2019 @02:27AM (#18937619)
If the cost of the tool is within the budget of the tradesman or professional, it's more common to buy it out of personal preference for a type or brand of tool.

If no part of your toolset is within your budget, then you're in the working class, since you cannot ever own your own means of production.

Re:Dbeaver – Multi-platform database tool by tormeh on Friday January 18, 2019 @03:33AM (#18937899)
That's not what working class means. If you earn money by working, then you are working class. If you earn money investing capital, then you're a capitalist. The working class can be further divided up, but those are all subcategories. A professional or a manager (petit bourgeois) are still working class. If you're a one-man company, then you're still working class.

You only transition once your investment returns surpass your income. Which is why truly rich people don't give a shit about income tax - they don't have income!

Re:Dbeaver – Multi-platform database tool by true_religion on Friday January 18, 2019 @11:18AM (#18940314)
That's a fair statement to make, and one that I have heard before but the definition of what constitutes the working class is arguable thus most people predefine it per scope of conversation, and not in a global sense.

For example, in the UK, commonly doctors and lawyers have not been considered part of the working class, regardless of if their investments outside of their profession.

Because a doctor can work independently, and hire other workers like nurses, and attendants, and own all of their tools of trade outright, they are part of the petit bourgeois.

Now you say that petit bourgeois is part of the working class, but many would disagree as Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels popularized a more fine grained definition of social classes as follows:

1. the working class - factory workers, peasants, and people who earn only by their labour

2. lumpenproletariat (commonly considered to include vagabonds, criminals or the 'unthinking poor')

3. professional middle-classes (engineers or tradesmen who do not typically hire employees)

3. petit-bourgeoisie - Professionals and small scale managers who hire workers but work alongside them

4. haute bourgeoisie - landed aristocracy & other capitalists who live from investment alone

Now if you are not marxists, you may drop some of the classes or simply call them something else. The lumpenproletariat are sometimes called the "underclass", and in advanced capitalist economies the line between professional middle-classes and petit-bourgeois blurs due to capital infusions from the top. For example, startup owners should rightly be professional middle class, but are upgraded due to VC infusion.

There are other ways to define the classes as well that don't depend on monetary wealth----for example the ladder from: working class to bourgeoisies to gentry to elite/aristocrats, so the terms themselves are fairly overloaded.

Analysing class warfare is a bit of my hobby. I blame my sassy liberal arts professors. :)

Re:Dbeaver – Multi-platform database tool by freedomben on Thursday January 17, 2019 @11:48PM (#18937113)
> Is it common to buy your own tools in other skilled trades (when you aren't a freelancer)?

I can't speak broadly, but when I worked construction, most guys would bring a mix of personal tools and company tools.

Re:Dbeaver – Multi-platform database tool by h1d on Friday January 18, 2019 @06:35PM (#18944153)
If you don't want to make yourself more productive to make yourself worth more and try to stay at what you're being paid for, that's your option.

I don't understand why you don't to become a more productive person then you may get a better job offer or start your own company where you and your customers will be the one to evaluate your worth instead of a single boss of yours.

Re:Dbeaver – Multi-platform database tool by hawski on Friday January 18, 2019 @06:14AM (#18938521)
In many software jobs it's not possible to bring your own tools unless approved. Even if they are free and open source.
Re:Dbeaver – Multi-platform database tool by tomnipotent on Thursday January 17, 2019 @10:21PM (#18936784)
I love JetBrains, ever since I discovered ReSharper when I was still active in C# some 10 years go. Now I use PyCharm, DataGrip and GoLand on a daily basis and am happy to throw my money at them.
Re:Dbeaver – Multi-platform database tool by h1d on Friday January 18, 2019 @06:38PM (#18944166)
Isn't it becoming cheaper to go with all products pack at that point?
Re:Dbeaver – Multi-platform database tool by dewey on Friday January 18, 2019 @04:10AM (#18938036)
Not everyone makes a six figure salary and not everyone lives in a country where software developers are paid well. I do, but it’s a very ignorant view to justify expenses.
Re:Dbeaver – Multi-platform database tool by h1d on Friday January 18, 2019 @06:39PM (#18944171)
Is there any studies that show what kind of salary people get in various regions of the world for certain skill set levels?
Re:Dbeaver – Multi-platform database tool by dewey on Saturday January 19, 2019 @02:48AM (#18945882)
I guess the StackOverflow salary data would be pretty extensive.
Re:Dbeaver – Multi-platform database tool by FooBadDev on Thursday January 17, 2019 @11:35PM (#18937066)
For developers in some countries, that's half their monthly income. Please don't think from only a US perspective.
Re:Dbeaver – Multi-platform database tool by ggregoire on Thursday January 17, 2019 @10:50PM (#18936888)
Do you actually think people outside of the US make six-figure salary?
Re:Dbeaver – Multi-platform database tool by h1d on Friday January 18, 2019 @06:39PM (#18944172)
I'm not from US but I'm interested in knowing what people make around the world for software engineers.
Re:Dbeaver – Multi-platform database tool by ggregoire on Thursday January 24, 2019 @03:26PM (#18992570)
Average annual salaries _before taxes_ in Western Europe starts between 30k EUR (Junior dev without a formal degree) and 40k EUR (Junior dev with a MS/engineering degree). I guess most people who started at 40k EUR finish their career between 60k EUR (as senior dev) and 80k EUR (as manager).

Then remove 25% as social charges + ~1 month of net salary as income tax + other various types of taxes.

Re:Dbeaver – Multi-platform database tool by hnmonkey on Thursday January 17, 2019 @10:47PM (#18936876)
Yes, for some $200 is still a very non-trivial amount of money to spend on something. If your situation makes this a no-brainer for you, you're in a better spot than many that make 6 figures.
Re:Dbeaver – Multi-platform database tool by tomnipotent on Thursday January 17, 2019 @11:19PM (#18937000)
Tell that to mechanics, carpenters, or any other number of professions that are expected to buy their own tools or do so for security outside of an employer. Still a bargain.
Re:Dbeaver – Multi-platform database tool by hnmonkey on Sunday January 20, 2019 @03:02AM (#18951813)
I don't think what you're saying changes what I said at all. $200 is still a large amount of money for people, even if other trades force their employees to buy their tools. I don't see how that changes anything.
Re:Dbeaver – Multi-platform database tool by svaha1728 on Friday January 18, 2019 @08:06AM (#18939002)
Sure. Tools are still difficult to maintain and develop. I love VS code which is free (as in Microsoft). It has replaced JetBrains Pycharm for me.

That said, I have a JetBrains subscription because their suite has a lot of value if you deal with multiple types of databases (or Java/.Net). Their business model is refreshingly straightforward, the coding is solid and I don’t mind giving them money.

Re:Dbeaver – Multi-platform database tool by h1d on Friday January 18, 2019 @06:23PM (#18944079)
It's about $8 a month and even lower on subsequent years.

But the real power of DataGrip comes by using it in one of their IDE that auto completes table and column names inside code and allows you to shift-click it to get to see the definition and show warning when you specify an unknown field.