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Re:To protect kids, don’t send report cards home on Fridays by legionof7 on Saturday January 12, 2019 @11:12PM (#18895011)
Yeah, I'm in high school right now and they have this system. They also had the same in middle school. There's no way this instant feedback system is mentally healthy. Also, a lot of times, teachers push a 0 as a placeholder grade and parents aren't in the classroom, so they see that and flip out.

Also, with the notification system, both parents and students see each assignment grade in a bubble, so it affects them a lot more than if they saw the whole semester grade (i.e getting an F on a homework assignment isn't a big deal)

Re:To protect kids, don’t send report cards home on Fridays by paganel on Sunday January 13, 2019 @11:35AM (#18897299)
But why send the grades (real or invented, it doesn’t matter) to students’ and parents’ phones? Who does that help? Does it help the students? Apparently not, because it looks like it makes them more anxious. Does it help the parents? It probably only helps those “tiger” moms and dads who are toxic anyway, I honestely think a parent shouldn’t care about the intrinsic details of his kids grades and day-to-day activity at school, it only causes more anxiety for said kids as it makes them even more nervous and risk-averse.

And on a more general note, how did we manage to screw this up? (I’m talking about people in my generation, late-20s, 30s, early 40s). Why are our kids anxious? Why do they kill themselves? Why do I hear of a close friend’s niece cutting herself when she’s only 12? We weren’t like that, at least not at this magnitude/level, so the screw-up is on us.

Re:To protect kids, don’t send report cards home on Fridays by idrios on Sunday January 13, 2019 @01:22PM (#18897905)
>how did we manage to screw this up?

I was a teacher last year and while I can't answer this question fully, I do know that it's a result of perverse incentives and group pressure.

Where I taught at school (a private English school in China) we also had an app that shows parents how their student is doing. They'd see test scores as soon as I uploaded the grades, and I'd get complaints from some of the parents if I was more than a day late in uploading those scores.

In the case of my school, we were competing with other private English schools. If we stopped or had never started using this app, we would get a few parents complaining "why can't I see my son's grade? [school z] does it, so I'm going to switch to their school!" We would lose some parents -- and for our student-retention team, losing too many parents means a pay for cut the following year. They would do anything to keep those parents so promises get made, and ultimately the school would certainly go back to using the app.

Meanwhile the group who built the app gets fabulously wealthy because they've built a (albeit harmful) service that their clients can't possibly get rid of.

Depressingly, the only way I see it turning back would be a force of equally-upset parents who removed their students from the school while asking "why do you use this at all? It's fostering anxiety and depression for my kid".

People vote with their wallets.

Re:To protect kids, don’t send report cards home on Fridays by filmgirlcw on Sunday January 13, 2019 @02:18PM (#18898178)
>how did we manage to screw this up?

Not a parent, but as someone in that generation - I almost feel like it’s the natural evolution of how stuff was done when we were in school, just made worse with always-on technology.

20 years ago, when I was a high school freshmen, I wasn’t supposed to have my cell phone in class (or even turned on during the school day. I consistently broke that rule.) and grades were still generally handed out in person. But by the time I graduated, we had pilot online classes, were often emailed grades, and there was a database for the county that could be accessed to see GPA. None of this was in real time, which was better, but the building blocks were already there.

But to me, this isn’t really about technology. It’s about culture and society that, in my opinion, is extremely unhealthy. As another commenter says, much of this can be seen as “school X does this so we have to follow” and parents are often very competitive about their children’s performance, whether it is in school or sports or drama club or whatever. Those of us raised in the era of “everyone gets a trophy” (but the unspoken part of that is that you still know what the “real” trophies are) and lessons for everything (I was in gymnastics and drama most of my life and took golf, tennis, cheerleading, piano, and voice lessons at various times in my childhood/early teens - and that was modest compared to some of my peers), were often preconditioned or encouraged to achieve certain things — whether they were ultimately important or not. I’m not surprised that kids raised that way would also raise their own kids with similar expectations, now with the additional horror or real-time access not just to grades, but location and other stuff.

Re:To protect kids, don’t send report cards home on Fridays by legionof7 on Sunday January 13, 2019 @12:16PM (#18897520)
I think schools just wanted to hop on the latest technology and the easiest way for companies to push that was "instant feedback" or something. They didn't foresee the unintended mental health consequences.
Re:To protect kids, don’t send report cards home on Fridays by ceautery on Sunday January 13, 2019 @07:02AM (#18896336)
The system should prevent 0 from being pushed as a notification. Each teacher or school should be forced to deal with 0 in some other way, preferably erring on the side of helping students, rather than punishing them.
Re:To protect kids, don’t send report cards home on Fridays by antsar on Sunday January 13, 2019 @07:54AM (#18896483)
Teachers already seem overworked. Wouldn’t they just invent a new magic number, maybe “1”?
Re:To protect kids, don’t send report cards home on Fridays by FakeComments on Sunday January 13, 2019 @09:06AM (#18896714)
It wouldn’t stop a 0 from being entered as a grade — just not push that notification.

This would actually makes teaching easier, as they can use a 0 as a placeholder without having to decide about accidentally pushing a notification.

I don’t think the teacher’s goal is to cause a panic with a transient 0 that’s later replaced — so I don’t see why they’d stop using something that better accomplished their goals.

Re:To protect kids, don’t send report cards home on Fridays by kijin on Sunday January 13, 2019 @09:06AM (#18896713)
101 would be a relatively safe number to use as a placeholder. Since these people aren't programmers, trying to use NULL or NaN or -1 will probably backfire.
Re:To protect kids, don’t send report cards home on Fridays by sethammons on Sunday January 13, 2019 @09:35AM (#18896804)
Sentry values are a nope. Have the assignment have a is_published check box / flag. An option to select all as published and the ability to toggle/select individual's assignments as published.
Re:To protect kids, don’t send report cards home on Fridays by hnuser355 on Monday January 14, 2019 @08:41AM (#18902828)
No, there could be extra credit
Re:To protect kids, don’t send report cards home on Fridays by munchbunny on Sunday January 13, 2019 @06:18PM (#18899362)
Or the system should allow "TBD" as a grade, or we should fix whatever reason the teacher was forced to put in a placeholder grade in the first place.
Re:To protect kids, don’t send report cards home on Fridays by Tempest1981 on Sunday January 13, 2019 @02:04PM (#18898106)
How about a system where grades are published online. If the parent and student don't acknowledge the grade within 7 days, a reminder text is sent. Then later the actual grade.

A related issue is that many parents struggle with school website logins/passwords. I bet a significant percentage never log in, all year. But they can't ignore their phones.

Re:To protect kids, don’t send report cards home on Fridays by rexgallorum2 on Monday January 14, 2019 @12:43PM (#18904721)
What if they don't have smartphones?
Re:To protect kids, don’t send report cards home on Fridays by freeflight on Sunday January 13, 2019 @04:52AM (#18895961)
> Also, with the notification system, both parents and students see each assignment grade in a bubble, so it affects them a lot more than if they saw the whole semester grade (i.e getting an F on a homework assignment isn't a big deal)

Could also show the average grade of the class for each assignment, to give students, parents, and teachers a reference for how well they are actually doing?

Re:To protect kids, don’t send report cards home on Fridays by chrismeller on Sunday January 13, 2019 @05:35AM (#18896094)
That's a possible partial fix, but I recall plenty of classes in high school and college that had a weighted grading scale.

Done every homework assignment and aced every test all semester but then bomb the midterm or final? You're still in trouble. Also vice versa - if you didn't do any homework all year, but the midterm is going to be worth 90% of your grade anyway. And of course we all know there are teachers that are just notoriously harder than anyone else where no one is going to get an A in the class, so there's also an aspect of how well other people have done on the assignment/in the class as a whole.

None of that is new at all, though. The problem is that technology has now calculated out a number and displayed it and we as humans add more importance to that hard number. To me it's similar to the whole "fake news" thing - we're too inclined to glance at what the app on our phone says and not think any further.

Re:To protect kids, don’t send report cards home on Fridays by JeanMarcS on Sunday January 13, 2019 @08:52AM (#18896674)
The average grade could be an idea, but being the worse in a upper high good class doesn’t mean you’re bad.

And I personally think that grades should show how you progress. If you get better with time it’s good.

And also we all agree that one grade out of any context should’nt mean anything

Re:To protect kids, don’t send report cards home on Fridays by gre on Sunday January 13, 2019 @01:37AM (#18895460)
Opt out
Re:To protect kids, don’t send report cards home on Fridays by skandl on Sunday January 13, 2019 @01:08AM (#18895378)
this sounds terrible :(
Re:To protect kids, don’t send report cards home on Fridays by sroya on Sunday January 13, 2019 @11:05AM (#18897165)
Which SIS are you using?
Re:To protect kids, don’t send report cards home on Fridays by Hello71 on Sunday January 13, 2019 @01:08AM (#18895379)
wouldn't it make more sense to use 1 as a placeholder
Re:To protect kids, don’t send report cards home on Fridays by gpvos on Sunday January 13, 2019 @03:21AM (#18895732)
Where I live, 1 looks more like an actual grade (the lowest one) than a 0, so that would be a very bad idea.
Re:To protect kids, don’t send report cards home on Fridays by yogeshlor on Sunday January 13, 2019 @01:39AM (#18895471)
how about hyphen -
Re:To protect kids, don’t send report cards home on Fridays by tatami on Sunday January 13, 2019 @02:30AM (#18895588)
Which is not an Integer and the whole view crashes after the ConversionError.

You know it

Re:To protect kids, don’t send report cards home on Fridays by saagarjha on Sunday January 13, 2019 @02:42AM (#18895610)
My high school system used to convert those to zeroes, just FYI. Anything that was nonnumeric and not a fixed set of "aliases" (for example, "pass" might mean 100% if the teacher set it up that way) became a zero.
Re:To protect kids, don’t send report cards home on Fridays by nailer on Sunday January 13, 2019 @09:19AM (#18896756)
How about using an integer where an integer is needed and false where no grade has been produced, with the teacher and student UI showing 'Not yet graded [x]' rather than using magic numbers?