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Re:German politicians targeted in mass data attack by tnolet on Friday January 04, 2019 @08:22AM (#18823773)
My SO is a journalist in Germany. She's all over this. Not clear if there are any clear "scandals". Would be fantasticly German if absolutely nothing fishy shows up.
Re:German politicians targeted in mass data attack by flexie on Friday January 04, 2019 @09:23AM (#18824206)
Isn’t German politics ridden with scandals at the personal level? I remember several cases of German top politicians faking their academic records.
Re:German politicians targeted in mass data attack by arrrg on Friday January 04, 2019 @10:44AM (#18824771)
Plagiarism was the issue, approached systematically first in 2011, in the wake of the Guttenberg† scandal. (Plagiarism was discovered in defense minister Guttenberg’s dissertation in early 2011. His title was subsequently revoked by his university and he resigned as defense minister.)

After the Guttenberg scandal a wiki sprung up which investigated more past academic works from people, first mostly politicians.

Now, plagiarism is a serious issue, but these politicians were not “faking” their academic records. They actually had those titles, the universities had just failed to identify their plagiarism and given them the titles in spite of it.

As such hacking them won’t likely reveal such scandals, only actually looking at those (already public) academic works and searching for plagiarism will … which is what has already been happening.

—

† Annette Schavan resigned two years earlier because of plagiarism-accusations, so his wasn’t the first case, even when only looking at recent cases.

Re:German politicians targeted in mass data attack by jabberthemutt on Friday January 04, 2019 @11:34AM (#18825273)
> Now, plagiarism is a serious issue, but these politicians were not “faking” their academic records.

'Faking' is a word not even strong enough. Those people acquired titles by fraud and deception.

Re:German politicians targeted in mass data attack by martinlaz on Friday January 04, 2019 @12:18PM (#18825716)
> Annette Schavan resigned two years earlier because of plagiarism-accusations, so his wasn’t the first case, even when only looking at recent cases.

Schavan resigned in 2013, two years after Guttenberg.

Re:German politicians targeted in mass data attack by EamonnMR on Friday January 04, 2019 @10:22AM (#18824588)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guttenberg_plagiarism_scanda...

In the US that would probably just lead to a minor apology. I remember a teutophone math professor mentioning that when she was explaining how serious plagiarism was.

Re:German politicians targeted in mass data attack by oarfish on Friday January 04, 2019 @09:45AM (#18824330)
Yes, there have been a few cases like these, but so far as I know it's not wide-spread, so "ridden with scandals" is inaccurate (so far as we know), unless you count lobbyist payments (which is scandalous in my opinion, but probably the same in most nations).
Re:German politicians targeted in mass data attack by omnibrain on Friday January 04, 2019 @11:35AM (#18825277)
Another widespread scandal was when politicians used miles gathered on flights payed by the public for private flights. The biggest scandal in the last two decades though was the CDU-Parteispendenaffäre (Big donations to the CDU from unknown donors). But the former Bundeskanzler Kohl took the secret to his grave and Schäuble who accepted illegal donations from a well known arms dealer is still a well respected politician and serves as president (roughly similar to the speaker role) of the Bundestag.
Re:German politicians targeted in mass data attack by dschu on Friday January 04, 2019 @10:10AM (#18824505)
Oh yeah, let's pretend like this is only the case in Germany.
Re:German politicians targeted in mass data attack by creddit on Friday January 04, 2019 @10:21AM (#18824576)
What about their post makes it seem like they're suggesting "only Germany" to you?
Re:German politicians targeted in mass data attack by kuschku on Friday January 04, 2019 @08:28AM (#18823816)
I've read through the files, and so far all there is are private phone numbers, addresses, social security numbers (well, the German equivalent, Rentenversicherungsnummern), bank data, etc of these people.

They basically just doxxed them, put up photos, names, account info of famous people, politicians and their families (at one point publishing photos and personal data of the little children of the host of a German late night show), and for a handful of them also published their entire iCloud content as well as all messages they ever sent/received on social media.

There's nothing fishy in there, just a very unethical and bad hack. Especially considering the hack only targeted left-wing people[1] a political motivation isn't be out of the question.

Footnotes:

[1] The hack targeted all parties that were at the time in parliament, but also many private people such as musicians, artists, TV hosts, etc. All of these people were politically left-leaning.

Re:German politicians targeted in mass data attack by woodpanel on Friday January 04, 2019 @08:44AM (#18823944)
> Especially considering the hack only targeted left-wing people

1) not true, FDP and CDU are certainly not left-wing

2) even if it were true, would it be more ethical to hack right-wingers?

The current speculation indicates no political leaning whatsoever (apart from one password of one leak for one socialist politician was "linkenshit" which could be either neutral, positive or negative).

Considering the age of the leaked data, it is speculated that during the time of gathering data, the AfD was not part of the targeted parliaments.

Re:German politicians targeted in mass data attack by kuschku on Friday January 04, 2019 @08:56AM (#18824034)
> 1) not true, FDP and CDU are certainly not left-wing

As mentioned in the footnote, I was referring to the individuals hacked, not the parties. In addition to the political parties, the hack also targeted youtubers, artists, musicians, etc.

These include Christian Ehring, Jan Böhmermann, Oliver Welke (all hosts of left-leaning late night or satire shows), Marteria, Casper, K.I.Z. (left-leaning rappers/music groups, or in case of K.I.Z. even explicitly anti-capitalist), and several YouTubers.

Additionally, the twitter account doing the hacks has mocked Böhmermann's Reconquista Internet explicitly.

Re:German politicians targeted in mass data attack by jplayer01 on Friday January 04, 2019 @01:45PM (#18826541)
> 2) even if it were true, would it be more ethical to hack right-wingers?

The problem is that any side was targeted.

Re:German politicians targeted in mass data attack by johnnyfaehell on Friday January 04, 2019 @09:34AM (#18824254)
I get the better way to say it, they targetted everyone who wasn't far-right AFD and celebs that are left wing. The base point seems to remain the same.
Re:German politicians targeted in mass data attack by pgeorgi on Friday January 04, 2019 @08:49AM (#18823992)
> 2) even if it were true, would it be more ethical to hack right-wingers?

I guess the thinking is "it's targeted against one side, so probably look at the other to find the perp". Would be just as true with hacked right-wingers.

(and the corollary: "it's a flag-flag operation by the very same side, so look there", which also comes up no matter what side is affected)

Re:German politicians targeted in mass data attack by rndgermandude on Friday January 04, 2019 @08:35AM (#18823868)
I wouldn't call CDU left wing. They appear to have spared the "most right" party in parliament (AfD), tho.
Re:German politicians targeted in mass data attack by Xylakant on Friday January 04, 2019 @08:38AM (#18823894)
Data seems to be from before the AFD was member of the parliament. This doesn’t exclude a political motive, but offers a non-political explanation as well.
Re:German politicians targeted in mass data attack by rndgermandude on Friday January 04, 2019 @08:41AM (#18823920)
Data is as fresh as early 2018 - I read in the German press - which means well after AfD became a player.
Re:German politicians targeted in mass data attack by kuschku on Friday January 04, 2019 @08:39AM (#18823897)
The political parties are a different question, I was mostly referring to the private people that were hacked.

In addition to hacking the systems of political parties, they also hacked many left-wing musicians, artists, TV hosts of late night shows, etc.

I've clarified my original post with a footnote.

Re:German politicians targeted in mass data attack by ben_w on Friday January 04, 2019 @08:40AM (#18823905)
Indeed, the Wikipedia page describes them as center-right.
Re:German politicians targeted in mass data attack by wp381640 on Friday January 04, 2019 @08:46AM (#18823972)
European center-right, it would be very different on the American spectrum
Re:German politicians targeted in mass data attack by rndgermandude on Friday January 04, 2019 @09:11AM (#18824122)
Well, I have to give you that.

But here in Germany, CDU was always considered "right".

For example, CDU/CSU politicians didn't want gay people to call what they have a "marriage". Merkel said so back in 2017, and eventually voted against the law together with more than 2/3rds of her party; the law passed anyway with the votes of the CDU's coalition partner SPD and the opposition parties. So there are some commonalities with the US right wing politicians and their policies, after all.

Re:German politicians targeted in mass data attack by trw on Friday January 04, 2019 @09:00AM (#18824062)
You can't position parties in a one-dimensional spectrum. At least two dimensions (economic freedom and personal freedom) are necessary. (You know, the age-old https://fee.org/media/9818/20131203_fulmer1a.png)
Re:German politicians targeted in mass data attack by FeteCommuniste on Friday January 04, 2019 @09:13AM (#18824133)
True "classical liberals" might as well be nonexistent for all the power they have in modern politics. Even pols who identify as "classical liberals" mostly just end up voting with one of their country's (economically + socially) right-wing parties anyway.
Re:German politicians targeted in mass data attack by trw on Friday January 04, 2019 @09:17AM (#18824156)
I just used that image as an example, I don't agree with the denominations used.
Re:German politicians targeted in mass data attack by lower on Friday January 04, 2019 @09:04AM (#18824075)
But keep in mind that CDU is Angela Merkel's party. She is probably the hate figure of the far-right in Germany.
[dead]
Re:German politicians targeted in mass data attack by smcl on Friday January 04, 2019 @08:38AM (#18823896)
You really want this to be some "false flag" don't you?
Re:German politicians targeted in mass data attack by wreath on Friday January 04, 2019 @08:26AM (#18823805)
Why would it be "fantastically German"?
Re:German politicians targeted in mass data attack by smcl on Friday January 04, 2019 @08:28AM (#18823820)
It'd play to the stereotypes of Germans being boring and efficient?
Re:German politicians targeted in mass data attack by StavrosK on Friday January 04, 2019 @08:29AM (#18823827)
"Of course we didn't do anything untoward, being corrupt would be a bad use of resources!"
Re:German politicians targeted in mass data attack by justaguyhere on Friday January 04, 2019 @08:41AM (#18823921)
being corrupt would be a bad use of resources

How badly I wish this was true in other parts of the world!

Re:German politicians targeted in mass data attack by kaybe on Friday January 04, 2019 @09:04AM (#18824077)
I think it's funny that if you used to go to these countries for your job, and if you used bribery money, you could deduct it as business expenses.

The law was changed in 2002, where it was still legal in non-German context and not concerning foreign public officers. Now that is illegal too.

That doesn't mean there is non though, I wish it was true in Germany as well.

Re:German politicians targeted in mass data attack by justaguyhere on Friday January 04, 2019 @09:10AM (#18824117)
I've learned to see bribery as a relative problem, not absolute. In my view, if country A takes less bribe than country B, then country A is better - though both countries are corrupt :(

I've never been to Germany, but from what I've read/heard, Germany will probably score pretty high by my standard

Re:German politicians targeted in mass data attack by wallace_f on Friday January 04, 2019 @10:09AM (#18824495)
Probably but it can be a stark contrast when it comes to personal experiences. I remember years ago a backpacker friend from Taiwan sending me a flood of messages about needing to leave Indonesia ASAP because she couldn't personally deal with the number of attempted scams and required briberies she had to suffer through.

There's also things like John Stossel's short documentary on setting up businesses in HK and in India.

Re:German politicians targeted in mass data attack by y4mi on Friday January 04, 2019 @08:46AM (#18823960)
It's not true in Germany either though...
Re:German politicians targeted in mass data attack by StavrosK on Friday January 04, 2019 @09:19AM (#18824167)
You're telling me...
Re:German politicians targeted in mass data attack by tnolet on Friday January 04, 2019 @08:30AM (#18823830)
Yes. German politics and bureaucracy specifically.
Re:German politicians targeted in mass data attack by Quarrelsome on Friday January 04, 2019 @08:40AM (#18823908)
the stereotype is that Germans are often ridiculously straight-laced. See tropes about German humour for reference.
Re:German politicians targeted in mass data attack by FabHK on Friday January 04, 2019 @08:48AM (#18823983)
which is, btw, why many Germans were so absolutely furious about the Volkswagen diesel emissions scandal - not only was it bad for the environment, but also severely damaged said German reputation for integrity and probity. The fury against these cheaters is palpable.
Re:German politicians targeted in mass data attack by llampx on Friday January 04, 2019 @09:19AM (#18824175)
On top of that, they were barely given a slap on the wrist in Germany whereas they had to pay out billions in the US. Even though they probably sold a lot more diesels in Germany than in the US, and Germans are feeling the pinch a lot more due to many cities banning diesels from inner city roads.
Re:German politicians targeted in mass data attack by ataturk on Friday January 04, 2019 @09:03AM (#18824074)
That whole thing was so stupid, though. A tempest in a teapot. US emissions regs are ridiculous and gaming them was the last possible outcome. The US brought this on itself as we always do, but it was more enterprising to blame the people tasked with pleasing both their corporate overlords and the regulators, a Faustian situation.

While I am against cheating, of course, I have to think that having all those cars junked just due to that scandal was a far bigger waste and far worse for the environment.

Re:German politicians targeted in mass data attack by llampx on Friday January 04, 2019 @09:21AM (#18824189)
> While I am against cheating, of course, I have to think that having all those cars junked just due to that scandal was a far bigger waste and far worse for the environment.

It was about sending a message. And probably also about the fact that VW is a foreign car manufacturer. Let's not forget the bailouts that the American car companies got just a few years ago.

Re:German politicians targeted in mass data attack by adrianN on Friday January 04, 2019 @09:34AM (#18824255)
No, they're not ridiculous. They're also not impossible to achieve, see all the cars that manage without cheating.