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Re:We should replace Facebook with personal websites by saucoide on Thursday December 20, 2018 @11:13AM (#18726122)
When i try to think of what my ideal social media would look like, it always ends up sounding similar to an RSS feed, with the ability to lookup and requiring the other user's approval to get the actual content, you could use different clients, some could give you recommendations for events,etc based on your subscriptions if you so choose, or just run your own locally. life would be so simple
Re:We should replace Facebook with personal websites by ip26 on Thursday December 20, 2018 @11:26AM (#18726253)
The magic usually missing from RSS is really good recommendation/discovery. I've got a list of feeds I follow, and that's all I'll ever get.
Re:We should replace Facebook with personal websites by darkarmani on Thursday December 20, 2018 @12:23PM (#18726897)
RSS is really just the content/transport method. For a decentralized FB, you would move the intelligence into your local client and it would like more like a web-of-trust network.

1. You connect to friends and you either manually assign or "grow" a bunch of weights to your amount of trust in them and your interest in various topics they might post.

2. You and your friends make posts and assign "topic" metadata to the posts. The value of the system depends on your friends properly assigning metadata to posts. But it makes it easier to filter out extended families' political shitposting (based on trust and negging untagged posts).

3. Your feed is selected based on the weight of your friendship times the weight you base on the interest of the topic. If your best friend posts something about computers and you have positively weighed that topic it would bubble up.

4. Friends-of-friends can transitively receive a proportion of the trust score you have in your friend. Highly trusted friends will make you trust their friends more.

5. Down-votes and upvotes would train your local agent. They could also be fed back to the originator IF votes were signed by trusted encryption keys to prevent your friend from faking his vote count on the "post".

This decentralizes the network out of FB and democratizes the algorithms / system for what and how you want to receive your information.

Re:We should replace Facebook with personal websites by NotAnEconomist on Thursday December 20, 2018 @01:10PM (#18727373)
I think there's middle ground that likely is more commercially viable:

1. Everyone makes a website.

2. Those websites submit articles to content indexes.

3. Part of your website hosts your own reader client:

3.a The reader subscribes to a set of indexes.

3.b It can also subscribe to individual feeds.

3.c Your client decides how to mix the feeds into displays, eg, you could have several indexes feed into one "feed" and have all of your family feeds in a second "feed".

4. Most of this is actually done via cloud hosting of managed packages, rented.

There's still many strong factors in favor of centralization, but if it's built around interop, then having a few large providers than mesh together is still an improvement and begins a competition to provide better services.

It's what happened with blogs and RSS anyway.

Re:We should replace Facebook with personal websites by mxuribe on Thursday December 20, 2018 @03:54PM (#18729036)
Some of the concepts you noted - specifically #1, #3, #3b, and #3c - form the basis of some of the stuff that the IndieWeb participants discuss/work on; see https://indieweb.org. In fact - and i think someone else might have already mentioned these guys - https://micro.blog already provides such a paid service. (There are free features of this service, but IIRC the paid parts fulfill some of the items you noted above.)
Re:We should replace Facebook with personal websites by CodeCube on Thursday December 20, 2018 @02:01PM (#18727906)
> submit articles to content indexes

... aaaaaand, there it goes; the spammers already ruined it ;)

Re:We should replace Facebook with personal websites by stcredzero on Thursday December 20, 2018 @02:30PM (#18728238)
... aaaaaand, there it goes; the spammers already ruined it ;)

Like they did with email. Then you have companies come with robust AI tech and filter the spam, and also give good recommendations. A few of those companies come to dominate the market

... aaaaaand, there it goes; we're back to the situation we have now with Facebook and Google.

Re:We should replace Facebook with personal websites by NotAnEconomist on Thursday December 20, 2018 @03:08PM (#18728639)
That's the point:

The situation for social networks would be strictly better if you could easily migrate accounts between FB, Google, etc and subscribe to feeds from multiple networks.

The situation you're calling out is exactly the point.

Re:We should replace Facebook with personal websites by stcredzero on Thursday December 20, 2018 @03:18PM (#18728710)
The situation for social networks would be strictly better if you could easily migrate accounts between FB, Google, etc and subscribe to feeds from multiple networks.

That's also my point.

Re:We should replace Facebook with personal websites by roystonvassey on Thursday December 20, 2018 @06:53PM (#18730331)
Google almost had this nailed with Reader before they canned it. Unbelievably stupid move while drowning millions in Plus and You and whatnot.
Re:We should replace Facebook with personal websites by kerng on Thursday December 20, 2018 @09:13PM (#18730980)
Google Reader was the only Google product I used regularly.
Re:We should replace Facebook with personal websites by ticmasta on Thursday December 20, 2018 @12:14PM (#18726786)
The nefarious problem with FB is the illusion of recommendation/discovery. They're not trying to find new and interesting things for you the way say, the cultural aspects of HN performs this feat; they're trying to define your profile and then serve up more of the same to increase engagement or capture your entire sphere of awareness so they can manipulate and shape your perception.'
Re:We should replace Facebook with personal websites by Randypea on Thursday December 20, 2018 @04:13PM (#18729175)
so they can manipulate and shape your perception.'..... then group you together with people like you and sell those groups to advertisers, claiming they have some exclusive access to groups like "yoga-loving cat owners"
Re:We should replace Facebook with personal websites by paulddraper on Thursday December 20, 2018 @01:00PM (#18727258)
> they can manipulate and shape your perception.

That sounds pretty malicious for what basically amounts to attempting to serve you the content and ads you want.

Re:We should replace Facebook with personal websites by stcredzero on Thursday December 20, 2018 @02:43PM (#18728400)
That sounds pretty malicious for what basically amounts to attempting to serve you the content and ads you want.

Basically, serving you the content and ads you want can turn out to be pretty malicious. By doing so, a big company can manipulate and shape your perception. Year by year, data processing is making big companies ever more potent at doing just this. Is it any wonder that it eventually got to a point where we started seeing problems?

Re:We should replace Facebook with personal websites by r3bl on Thursday December 20, 2018 @05:31PM (#18729793)
They've already intentionally manipulated emotions of a "small number of users" (700k), proved it was possible, and released a paper on it: https://slate.com/technology/2014/06/facebook-unethical-expe...
Re:We should replace Facebook with personal websites by techbio on Thursday December 20, 2018 @02:02PM (#18727917)
>> capture your entire sphere of awareness

Malicious sounding, indeed.

Re:We should replace Facebook with personal websites by wasdfff on Thursday December 20, 2018 @12:46PM (#18727127)
Follow feeds that post from a variety of sources. I follow a HN rss, a couple multireddit RSS feeds, and even newsletters from nyt and la times will include stories from a variety of places.

“Discover” hardly ever means, “check out what’s interesting,” usually it’s “check out this targeted ad”

Re:We should replace Facebook with personal websites by ip26 on Thursday December 20, 2018 @01:16PM (#18727448)
Ah, but if I'm too broad, then I get a firehose of news. RSS gives you everything that comes down the pipe- unless you set up filters, I suppose
Re:We should replace Facebook with personal websites by asdff on Thursday December 20, 2018 @01:38PM (#18727685)
For reddit you can get a feed for the top posts only, and for HN you can set a score threshold. I even follow newsletters over rss (killthenewsletter), which if you subscribe to some daily digests you get exposed to stories from a variety of sources on many topics. I can still run through like 250 headlines in about 30 minutes, reading or saving what I like to pocket and skimming over the rest. There is definitely set up and optimization with RSS, getting the right mix of feeds that you want, but I don't see any targeted posts or advertising when I browse the internet now.

Its also really good for following journal articles in my field. Pubmed has active search RSS, for instance, and every journal pushes their new articles to RSS.

Re:We should replace Facebook with personal websites by hotmud on Friday December 21, 2018 @04:04AM (#18732180)
> [F]or HN you can set a score threshold…

How does one do that? I'm interested.

Re:We should replace Facebook with personal websites by JetSpiegel on Friday December 21, 2018 @07:35PM (#18738033)
Re:We should replace Facebook with personal websites by ryandrake on Thursday December 20, 2018 @12:04PM (#18726667)
Recommendations + Discovery = Filter Bubble. These mis-features are exactly what we should be moving away from!
Re:We should replace Facebook with personal websites by davidivadavid on Thursday December 20, 2018 @02:31PM (#18728255)
I'll take good recommendations, thank you.

I'm surprised so few people here have picked up on the fact that "filter bubble" is a rhetorical trick about as obvious as the "pro-life" and "pro-choice" dichotomy.

People like getting good recommendations, and they'll always like them. "Filter bubbles" are here to stay.

Re:We should replace Facebook with personal websites by dasil003 on Thursday December 20, 2018 @05:40PM (#18729861)
Sure, we all want good recommendations, but how do we define "good"? I see some obvious problems with the way tech recommendations are playing out that have nothing to do with the filter bubble issue.

First, we are outsourcing recommendations to profit-driven corporations. At best, the recommendations I want to see will be mixed with the ones advertisers want me to see. Revenue expectations of social media companies currently ensure this is a non-trivial issue with no easy middle ground.

Even assuming the recommendations are reasonably good, you still have the problem that these ML-type recommendations require massive datasets and therefore it naturally gravitates towards a winner-take-all situation. Having one giant borg of a recommendation engine is bad.

We are replacing a rich tapestry of individual word-of-mouth and small-scale communication channels with a massive mono-culture. Scalability is worshipped in tech companies (it's great for getting rich!), but it's not a inherently a good thing. In nature we find diversity trumps scalability, and I feel the same way about culture.

Re:We should replace Facebook with personal websites by aldermeer on Friday December 21, 2018 @04:41PM (#18736924)
Google News claims to include other sources in a story's feed, to expose the readership to other points of view. That sounds like a great way to burst the "social media bubble".
Re:We should replace Facebook with personal websites by stcredzero on Thursday December 20, 2018 @02:46PM (#18728437)
Good recommendations are like a convenient browser that comes with your OS. The problems come in when it's just one company that has the public locked in to their particular solution.
Re:We should replace Facebook with personal websites by davidivadavid on Thursday December 20, 2018 @04:11PM (#18729159)
What problems?
Re:We should replace Facebook with personal websites by stcredzero on Thursday December 20, 2018 @04:57PM (#18729525)
IE 6
Re:We should replace Facebook with personal websites by ip26 on Thursday December 20, 2018 @12:14PM (#18726792)
No discovery = isolation bubble
Re:We should replace Facebook with personal websites by Kye on Thursday December 20, 2018 @12:27PM (#18726940)
I found this out when I switched from Pocket to Instapaper. Instapaper has a curated list of articles updated about once a month, and I don't read half of them. Pocket recommends articles based on what you read, and it's not just more of the same. I'm probably going to switch back.
Re:We should replace Facebook with personal websites by wasdfff on Thursday December 20, 2018 @12:52PM (#18727180)
You can follow hn and other aggregators like reddit via rss. I have it set up for hn where I only get posts that have hit 100 points, otherwise it’s a firehose.
Re:We should replace Facebook with personal websites by marcosdumay on Thursday December 20, 2018 @01:32PM (#18727634)
> Recommendations + Discovery = Filter Bubble.

Yep. When it decentralized you can control how strong are the bubble walls and can try different bubbles from time to time.

Re:We should replace Facebook with personal websites by hinkley on Thursday December 20, 2018 @12:58PM (#18727232)
The way I grew my feed was to look around any time an article in my feed linked to another site.

The thing is though we want to talk about the stories and ask questions. I mean, that’s why we’re all here, right? Comment forums on a million sites don’t work.

In the early days of the web someone had the idea that you should be able to run your own group commentary without the site aurhor’s permission. You’d register for the service and your browser would tell you or show you that there’s a conversation going about this page.

I still feel like we need this.

Re:We should replace Facebook with personal websites by cakeface on Saturday December 22, 2018 @11:05AM (#18741087)
There are some w3c tools around open annotations that might be a good fit for this.
Re:We should replace Facebook with personal websites by startupdiscuss on Thursday December 20, 2018 @11:55AM (#18726558)
Is there discovery on Facebook?

Most people I add because I meet them in read life. Actually, 100% of the people I add on FB after I've met them in real life.

Maybe if there was a good search and easy add mechanism for people I've met, it would fulfill the discovery aspect. I agree with you, it does feel easier to find people on FB.

Re:We should replace Facebook with personal websites by ip26 on Thursday December 20, 2018 @12:00PM (#18726613)
No, discovery of news & sources. Your friends who know about <your hobby> are a great news source/filter. Whereas with RSS there's not a good method to find new news you care about.
Re:We should replace Facebook with personal websites by QML on Thursday December 20, 2018 @05:51PM (#18729938)
Can't you just have a website like Medium that acts as an aggregator (of RSS feeds) instead of a platform? The issue I have to whether stick with RSS feeds, which seem like it's dying, or to use ActivityPub, which doesn't seem to be developed that heavily.
Re:We should replace Facebook with personal websites by pmlnr on Thursday December 20, 2018 @06:06PM (#18730063)
Re:We should replace Facebook with personal websites by QML on Thursday December 20, 2018 @09:18PM (#18731008)
I think in addition to this an aggregator, you also need a website that helps create an RSS feed for each user while simultaneously abstracting that notion away. Thanks for the pointer though :)
Re:We should replace Facebook with personal websites by njn on Friday December 21, 2018 @10:01AM (#18733664)
Re:We should replace Facebook with personal websites by tmaly on Thursday December 20, 2018 @01:27PM (#18727574)
I think something like personal AI, like something out of a William Gibson novel could fix this issue.
Re:We should replace Facebook with personal websites by FranzFerdiNaN on Thursday December 20, 2018 @04:31PM (#18729326)
I use Feedly for my rss-feeds and they do recommend other sites to follow if you search for a feed.
Re:We should replace Facebook with personal websites by max76 on Thursday December 20, 2018 @11:59AM (#18726602)
Maybe someone should create an RSS feed that curates other RSS feeds and forwards them to their recipients.

I'm not sure how to monetize this, but it would add some discovery to rss.

Re:We should replace Facebook with personal websites by Kye on Thursday December 20, 2018 @12:24PM (#18726907)
You described a link blog. kottke.org and Daring Fireball are good examples.
Re:We should replace Facebook with personal websites by criddell on Thursday December 20, 2018 @12:43PM (#18727089)
> I'm not sure how to monetize this

Make it good enough to pay for.

Re:We should replace Facebook with personal websites by wasdfff on Thursday December 20, 2018 @12:47PM (#18727145)
For glorified opml export?
Re:We should replace Facebook with personal websites by spdionis on Thursday December 20, 2018 @01:14PM (#18727424)
For research and curation of content.
Re:We should replace Facebook with personal websites by JetSpiegel on Friday December 21, 2018 @07:36PM (#18738038)
It's hard to compete with HN and Reddit...
Re:We should replace Facebook with personal websites by krausejj on Friday December 21, 2018 @11:35AM (#18734390)
we're working on this problem with mendoapp.com

but instead of following "feeds" you follow people, and it queues up links they've shared on twitter

Re:We should replace Facebook with personal websites by unicornporn on Thursday December 20, 2018 @02:36PM (#18728308)
Blogrolls worked quite well for me.
Re:We should replace Facebook with personal websites by mpweiher on Thursday December 20, 2018 @12:15PM (#18726807)
RaaS? Recommendations as a Service? Disaggregated.
Re:We should replace Facebook with personal websites by stcredzero on Thursday December 20, 2018 @02:28PM (#18728203)
When i try to think of what my ideal social media would look like, it always ends up sounding similar to an RSS feed, with the ability to lookup and requiring the other user's approval to get the actual content

That last phrase could add a lot of friction.

you could use different clients, some could give you recommendations for events,etc based on your subscriptions if you so choose

That would indeed replace Facebook. However, then you have a chicken and egg problem. Those clients won't be much good unless people provide data by using them, and people won't use them because they don't already have the data to provide good recommendations.

Re:We should replace Facebook with personal websites by viraptor on Thursday December 20, 2018 @04:35PM (#18729357)
There's already a lot of aggregators which are partially-social. For example theoldreader tells me that someone likes a specific post from RSS feed. Not sure if they have recommendations, but they could certainly generate them if they wanted.
Re:We should replace Facebook with personal websites by stcredzero on Friday December 21, 2018 @12:26PM (#18734787)
One thing that could be really cool, would be the UI of RSS readers applied to social media. Like, you could have the ads and recommendations in their own branch of the tree.
Re:We should replace Facebook with personal websites by naravara on Thursday December 20, 2018 @03:07PM (#18728636)
>When i try to think of what my ideal social media would look like, it always ends up sounding similar to an RSS feed, with the ability to lookup and requiring the other user's approval to get the actual content, you could use different clients, some could give you recommendations for events,etc based on your subscriptions if you so choose, or just run your own locally. life would be so simple

Up until you get to "different clients" you're basically describing classic Google Reader.

Re:We should replace Facebook with personal websites by FranzFerdiNaN on Thursday December 20, 2018 @04:33PM (#18729336)
I still miss google reader. If was such a fine product that just worked so of course it had to go.
Re:We should replace Facebook with personal websites by grahamburger on Thursday December 20, 2018 @05:03PM (#18729569)
That sounds a lot like ActivityPub / Mastodon.
Re:We should replace Facebook with personal websites by brlewis on Thursday December 20, 2018 @09:20PM (#18731013)
My ideal social media was FriendFeed, and yes it was in many ways similar to an RSS feed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FriendFeed
Re:We should replace Facebook with personal websites by akirk on Friday December 21, 2018 @05:11AM (#18732428)
I've been actually building something like this on the side with the Friends plugin for WordPress: https://wordpress.org/plugins/friends/ (source at https://github.com/akirk/friends)

It's based on the idea that you'd publish to your personal website either publicly or privately. The private posts can only be read by your friends (who own personal websites themselves and have established a friendship connection using a friend request).

The implementation is just a (not yet standardized) friend ship request REST protocol plus authenticated RSS feeds (using a secret key exchanged by the above process).

Since the whole decentralized social network idea is a chicken-and-egg game, I've constructed the plugin in a way so that it is useful to use by yourself: You can subscribe to RSS feeds, filter feeds with your own rules, and get full-content e-mail notifications for all or selected posts.

The plugin also implements Emoji-Likes on posts and allows recommending posts to your friends. It doesn't have an automatic recommendation engine (yet?).

Actually, there is no need to have this restricted to WordPress since it uses very much established technology, so it could interoperate with any other compatible platform. I just implemented it with WordPress for its ecosystem and that you can use existing mobile apps to read on it and share to it.

Overall the whole endeavor allows you to have your personal social network decentralized, ad- and spam-free since you select who you listen to.

The plugin is already well usable but it only progresses at side-project speed, so help is welcome (not only development work but also trying it out, posting about its features with screenshots/-casts, etc.)!

You can read more about some technical details at https://alexander.kirk.at/2018/11/03/decentralized-social-ne... and take a look at the presentation: https://alexander.kirk.at/2018/11/08/wordpress-meetup-presen...

Re:We should replace Facebook with personal websites by snackematician on Thursday December 20, 2018 @11:52AM (#18726521)
Maybe more of an email list than an RSS feed then? You can control who is a member of the list to receive content. It would be cool if social media could be done through email, sort of like Usenet.
Re:We should replace Facebook with personal websites by saucoide on Thursday December 20, 2018 @12:01PM (#18726631)
Yes, but ideally it would be 2-ways, and there is still the problem with discovery, more in general i just think there shouldn't be social media sites, "social media" should be a protocol
Re:We should replace Facebook with personal websites by wasdfff on Thursday December 20, 2018 @12:48PM (#18727152)
You mean like newsletters? No need to reinvent the wheel.
Re:We should replace Facebook with personal websites by schnevets on Thursday December 20, 2018 @01:13PM (#18727411)
Email/newsletters are a promising protocol, but you would have to rethink the UX to be more like a newsfeed, where a concise version of the message is shown once, and then automatically marked as read.

I have noticed friends reverting back to RSVP e-mails via Paperless Post Flyer. I'm still not sure if one person in this social group is not on Facebook, causing the change, but it has been a welcome adjustment. If Facebook Events can be replaced by an e-mail approach, I don't see why other products can't follow suit.

Re:We should replace Facebook with personal websites by asdff on Thursday December 20, 2018 @01:40PM (#18727705)
>where a concise version of the message is shown once, and then automatically marked as read.

So like a rule to push it into your newsletter folder?

Re:We should replace Facebook with personal websites by dtougas on Thursday December 20, 2018 @12:47PM (#18727141)
Didn't you just describe Twitter?
Re:We should replace Facebook with personal websites by yakshaving_jgt on Thursday December 20, 2018 @01:03PM (#18727293)
Twitter could be great if you could truly tune-out the stuff you don't want to see.

For a long time I held onto my account, trying to mute anything part of SJW or communist discourse, but to no avail. Twitter shows you stuff you didn't sign up for anyway, I suppose to maximise engagement.