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Re:Marriott Data Breach Traced to Chinese Hackers, US Readie... by varenc on Tuesday December 11, 2018 @08:43PM (#18660679)
I'd be really interested in seeing the declassified intelligence the article mentions that points the finger at Chinese-intelligence. While proving that the attackers originate in China might be easy, clearly connecting this to a government-supported operation seems quite a challenge involving long chains of reasoning. It's probably not feasible to release all the info needed to independently verify this, but we'll see.

I can also imagine how this line could be blurry... perhaps the government quietly permits more profit motivated blackhat operations in exchange for some intelligence sharing. And really the perfect "cyber attack" shouldn't be attributable at all.

Re:Marriott Data Breach Traced to Chinese Hackers, US Readie... by NotAnEconomist on Tuesday December 11, 2018 @08:56PM (#18660742)
> perhaps the government quietly permits more profit motivated blackhat operations in exchange for some intelligence sharing

I've long wondered if we're going to see cyber warfare "letters of marque" at some point.

In retaliation to cyber attacks on US companies, the US government could designate Chinese firms with connections to the Chinese government (and particularly those which support the Chinese military) in letters of marque, allowing retaliatory IP theft, permission to cause damages, etc.

If the Chinese government is behind these attacks on US companies, than we are in a de facto state of warfare.

Re:Marriott Data Breach Traced to Chinese Hackers, US Readie... by nradov on Tuesday December 11, 2018 @10:48PM (#18661239)
I doubt we'll see formal legal letters of marque until and unless we're in a state of open war. The US government already has a policy of using kinetic means to retaliate against serious cyber attacks and other governments take similar approaches. So unleashing a bunch of mercenaries without clear constraints would create a dangerous risk of unexpected escalation.

But federal law enforcement could simply decline to pursue private actors who attacked adversary states. Plausible deniability, to an extent.

Re:Marriott Data Breach Traced to Chinese Hackers, US Readie... by bitxbitxbitcoin on Tuesday December 11, 2018 @09:40PM (#18660958)
If we see cyber warfare "letters of marque" imagine if they allow for the takedown of internet pirates without allegiance to any particular country.
Re:Marriott Data Breach Traced to Chinese Hackers, US Readie... by onetimemanytime on Wednesday December 12, 2018 @02:50AM (#18662120)
But total war might follow.

Live by the sword...What if NSA already did the same to China? That's their mission, isn't it? China's "NSA" succeeded but became public.

Our NSA might have succeed dozens of time but China keeps it a secret.

Re:Marriott Data Breach Traced to Chinese Hackers, US Readie... by acct1771 on Wednesday December 12, 2018 @12:02AM (#18661525)
The open warfare can't come soon enough, as far as caring about the stability of our infrastructure is concerned.
Re:Marriott Data Breach Traced to Chinese Hackers, US Readie... by Latteland on Wednesday December 12, 2018 @02:35AM (#18662040)
What are you thinking! Open cyber warfare could destroy our way of life. Imagine if all electronic records were very suspect. Bank acct values had millions of known wrong values.
Re:Marriott Data Breach Traced to Chinese Hackers, US Readie... by acct1771 on Wednesday December 12, 2018 @10:59AM (#18664950)
I watched someone take ten pictures of pure black last night to keep a "streak" fire emoji next to their chats on Snapchat.

Our way of life is kind of fucked, to be blunt, and our consumer tech culture could use a cull.

Those who don't understand or respect tech...they haven't been (explained/bitten by) the consequences of their ignorance.

Re:Marriott Data Breach Traced to Chinese Hackers, US Readie... by lolc on Wednesday December 12, 2018 @02:18AM (#18661980)
Did you have limited skirmishes in mind or a nuclear war?
Re:Marriott Data Breach Traced to Chinese Hackers, US Readie... by acct1771 on Wednesday December 12, 2018 @11:01AM (#18664963)
Escalating attacks on State/corp network infrastructure would lead to better tools being built immediately by those who have the resources to do so, hopefully making their way to everyone eventually.
Re:Marriott Data Breach Traced to Chinese Hackers, US Readie... by meowface on Tuesday December 11, 2018 @09:09PM (#18660803)
You're right, but there also may be highly sensitive intelligence at play here. If US intelligence has a mole in Chinese intelligence, and/or access to Chinese government systems, they could have smoking gun proof. They may have been able to trace it to them with high confidence even without that proof, but we'll probably never know for sure, since they'll never publicize the real details.
Re:Marriott Data Breach Traced to Chinese Hackers, US Readie... by est on Tuesday December 11, 2018 @09:21PM (#18660870)
Chinese government is a complex hierarchy. Documented, planed, coordinated attacks are really rare. Most of the breaches are carried out by Chinese civil hackers or contractors, The harvested data was later funneled to government agencies by various markets and cooperative projects.

I've seen one these "lone wolf" actor preemptively collecting emails of a very high profile target via sophisticated penatration (APT? LOL), then sold these data to a state-owned enterprise. In exchange his hacking violations were cleared.

The government simply kept a loose end to these kind of foreign hacks. For domestic offense, the rules are very strict. Some dude famously posted some kind of minor XSS vulnerability of a random PLA veteran management site, then the hole public disclosure site was shutdown by the government and site admin was jailed. LMAO. So today the Chinese underground market was more active than ever before, because there are no more free bugs.

Re:Marriott Data Breach Traced to Chinese Hackers, US Readie... by eganist on Tuesday December 11, 2018 @10:19PM (#18661113)
What's your sourcing on all of this?

Everything you just said--if legitimate and if identified via IC-contracted *INT--would with near-certainty be classified and appropriately compartmentalized. If it's research from an outside institution, it'd be more interesting to read it.

Re:Marriott Data Breach Traced to Chinese Hackers, US Readie... by meowface on Wednesday December 12, 2018 @09:43AM (#18664281)
I think it's a mix of both, much like it is in Russia.
Re:Marriott Data Breach Traced to Chinese Hackers, US Readie... by late2part on Tuesday December 11, 2018 @09:50PM (#18661002)
You are misinformed.
Re:Marriott Data Breach Traced to Chinese Hackers, US Readie... by meroes on Tuesday December 11, 2018 @08:55PM (#18660741)
Are you just trying to sow doubt for China's sake or do you legitimately have issue with what was said by the two sources and Just Dept case.
Re:Marriott Data Breach Traced to Chinese Hackers, US Readie... by jonnybgood on Wednesday December 12, 2018 @12:08AM (#18661543)
> While proving that the attackers originate in China might be easy, clearly connecting this to a government-supported operation seems quite a challenge involving long chains of reasoning.

Connecting to a government-supported operation has already be done before [0]. There probably isn’t that much difficulty to do it again.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PLA_Unit_61398

Re:Marriott Data Breach Traced to Chinese Hackers, US Readie... by resters on Tuesday December 11, 2018 @10:35PM (#18661175)
The article mentions that the US Government has not attributed the hack to China. This step has been done by private security contractor firms who "notice a lot of similarities" with other hacks attributed to China.

This is extremely weak reasoning. Any state actor would have the ability to cover its tracks, and more importantly to frame other state actors.

The article ends with a bit of classic anti-communism fear mongering.

Re:Marriott Data Breach Traced to Chinese Hackers, US Readie... by jonnybgood on Wednesday December 12, 2018 @01:18AM (#18661749)
It wouldn't be the first time a private security firm exposed Chinese hacking.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PLA_Unit_61398

Mandiant's report: https://www.fireeye.com/content/dam/fireeye-www/services/pdf...

Re:Marriott Data Breach Traced to Chinese Hackers, US Readie... by n-gatedotcom on Tuesday December 11, 2018 @08:46PM (#18660695)
Replace Chinese with Russian and ask yourself if you still want to see the declassified Intel.
Re:Marriott Data Breach Traced to Chinese Hackers, US Readie... by cyphar on Tuesday December 11, 2018 @09:12PM (#18660822)
You should always ask for evidence for claims. A quick reminder that the US intelligence community lied to the Bush administration about WMDs in Iraq, as well as about the existence of PRISM and related programs. Trusting the intelligence community, in the absence of evidence, is hardly a reasonable standpoint.

Why would it matter if the claim were Russia, China, or North Korea?

Re:Marriott Data Breach Traced to Chinese Hackers, US Readie... by thanatos_dem on Tuesday December 11, 2018 @09:10PM (#18660807)
Yes, I would like to see all declassified intel indicative of any foreign power performing a cyber attack on us. Is that somehow controversial?
Re:Marriott Data Breach Traced to Chinese Hackers, US Readie... by pretendscholar on Tuesday December 11, 2018 @09:06PM (#18660789)
Why wouldn't we want to see the declassified intel on Russian hacking? What does that even mean?
Re:Marriott Data Breach Traced to Chinese Hackers, US Readie... by paraditedc on Tuesday December 11, 2018 @09:10PM (#18660805)
My guess is that it's a reference to Hillary Clinton losing election due to hacked emails.
Re:Marriott Data Breach Traced to Chinese Hackers, US Readie... by i_cant_speel on Tuesday December 11, 2018 @08:58PM (#18660755)
I'm not sure what point you are trying to make with this comment.
Re:Marriott Data Breach Traced to Chinese Hackers, US Readie... by striking on Wednesday December 12, 2018 @01:50AM (#18661863)
You've violated the prime directive. /hackernews/2017/08/22/0/
Re:Marriott Data Breach Traced to Chinese Hackers, US Readie... by n-gatedotcom on Saturday December 15, 2018 @02:49AM (#18687539)
I went to that date but couldn't see anything.