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Re:Tell HN: Amazon now owns 3.0.0.0/8 by btown on Thursday November 08, 2018 @11:27AM (#18407381)
Wow. This is a significant slice of the IPv4 address space, and one of the few remaining uninterrupted /8s owned by the private sector. This is a 10-year old visualization, but it's still a good one to visualize the scale of this purchase.

http://maps.measurement-factory.com/

It's a great purchase for them, and a shot at Azure and GCP - Amazon can now legitimately tell larger clients "we will have enough IPv4 space to be your partner for all your static-IP-dependent applications, no matter how much you need to scale."

Re:Tell HN: Amazon now owns 3.0.0.0/8 by degenerate on Thursday November 08, 2018 @12:15PM (#18407864)
Much larger and more readable version of this map:

https://www.caida.org/research/id-consumption/whois-map/imag...

Each pixel in the image is a /24 network.

Re:Tell HN: Amazon now owns 3.0.0.0/8 by jandrese on Thursday November 08, 2018 @12:52PM (#18408216)
It's really incredible how so many non-tech companies have /8s still. What is Prudential doing with all of that address space? Eli Lily?!? Who the hell is Cap Debis?
Re:Tell HN: Amazon now owns 3.0.0.0/8 by trynewideas on Thursday November 08, 2018 @01:04PM (#18408335)
> Who the hell is Cap Debis?

Debis = Daimler-Benz InterServices, sold to T-Mobile (specifically T-Services) in the early 2000s

CAP Debis was a partnership with CAP Gemini.

Today it's mostly enterprise telecom/IT, though that maybe oversimplifies things. It's a big beast in Europe, Germany specifically.

Re:Tell HN: Amazon now owns 3.0.0.0/8 by nashashmi on Thursday November 08, 2018 @01:44PM (#18408730)
I wonder if T-mobile is aware of that purchase. Sometimes these little known assets get lost by the big predator because they were interested in something very specific of the prey company.
Re:Tell HN: Amazon now owns 3.0.0.0/8 by netopexcept on Friday November 09, 2018 @02:28AM (#18412901)
I'm sure TMobile is intimately familiar with their networking assets. They pioneered squatting on MoD space for internal routing to avoid dual homed conflicts. (25.0.0.0/8)

https://blog.wireshark.org/2010/04/t-mobile-clever-or-insane...

Re:Tell HN: Amazon now owns 3.0.0.0/8 by jandrese on Thursday November 08, 2018 @01:07PM (#18408354)
I guess that one makes sense. I was having little luck Googling that name.
Re:Tell HN: Amazon now owns 3.0.0.0/8 by gcbw2 on Thursday November 08, 2018 @01:56PM (#18408851)
For the same reason some banks open so many branches. "Real State".
Re:Tell HN: Amazon now owns 3.0.0.0/8 by throwanem on Thursday November 08, 2018 @01:10PM (#18408378)
Waiting for the peak.
Re:Tell HN: Amazon now owns 3.0.0.0/8 by capobvious on Thursday November 08, 2018 @02:23PM (#18409084)
Gonna be a long wait.
Re:Tell HN: Amazon now owns 3.0.0.0/8 by ericsoderstrom on Thursday November 08, 2018 @04:00PM (#18409978)
Would love to see a more up-to-date version of this. I know MIT sold [1] a bunch of its address space not too long ago.

[1]: https://www.internetsociety.org/blog/2017/05/mit-goes-on-ipv...

Re:Tell HN: Amazon now owns 3.0.0.0/8 by ancarda on Thursday November 08, 2018 @01:17PM (#18408442)
Is there an up to date version of this? I wouldn't mind getting a poster of this on my wall.
Re:Tell HN: Amazon now owns 3.0.0.0/8 by afturner on Thursday November 08, 2018 @04:03PM (#18410009)
seriously, me too. If no one can find one (I just tried to no avail), I'll make one myself and post it on here
Re:Tell HN: Amazon now owns 3.0.0.0/8 by adetrest on Saturday November 10, 2018 @08:39AM (#18421277)
Ha, I'd print it and put it on the wall too.
Re:Tell HN: Amazon now owns 3.0.0.0/8 by ponytech on Thursday November 08, 2018 @04:16PM (#18410108)
How come there are still unallocated spaces with the lack of free IPV4 addresses?
Re:Tell HN: Amazon now owns 3.0.0.0/8 by detaro on Thursday November 08, 2018 @04:17PM (#18410120)
It's from October 2007.
Re:Tell HN: Amazon now owns 3.0.0.0/8 by walkingolof on Thursday November 08, 2018 @12:53PM (#18408218)
" no matter how much you need to scale."

Sure its a big block, but its still "only" ~16 million addresses

Re:Tell HN: Amazon now owns 3.0.0.0/8 by ghaff on Thursday November 08, 2018 @12:02PM (#18407741)
They also previously bought half(?) of MIT's /8.
Re:Tell HN: Amazon now owns 3.0.0.0/8 by perfect_wave on Thursday November 08, 2018 @11:50AM (#18407629)
Re:Tell HN: Amazon now owns 3.0.0.0/8 by natestemen on Thursday November 08, 2018 @01:10PM (#18408385)
anyone have any good explanations of the image linked? like what are ARIN, RIPE, why is some unallocated, what is multicast?

that sort of thing would be cool to learn

Re:Tell HN: Amazon now owns 3.0.0.0/8 by tialaramex on Thursday November 08, 2018 @02:41PM (#18409260)
Unicast is sending messages to a single peer. Broadcast is sending messages to everybody. Multicast is in between, sending to some arbitrary set of recipients.

On a Local network, multicast is very easy to do. Unless it's very, very old your computer almost certainly uses multicast on local networks already, for a variety of purposes. A dumb old network just sent all packets to all computers on the local network, so both broadcast and multicast were equally easy to do, your network card has a filter built into it, that autonomously weeds out messages your computer cares about, and ignores the others - so the Operating system is like "Hey, network card, my unicast address is 10.20.30.40, and I am also listening to multicast address 224.0.0.251" and it will just throw away any packets that aren't for those addresses. A smart modern network (e.g. the mid-range gigabit switch serving your desk at work) keeps track of which addresses are where and sends copies of messages only to where they seem useful, leaving more network bandwidth for everybody else.

The Internet can in theory do Multicast too. I've used this to, for example, watch television with a dozen other people without any copy of the TV picture data being sent over the shared data link to us more than once. That's what those addresses are for, you "Join" one of the multicast addresses and begin receiving, say, the Olympics live.

However making all this work is hard, and in most places, most of the time, nobody puts in all that hard work, so probably you'll find that although local network multicast works for you (as I said it's used in modern systems) you cannot use the Internet's multicast features. Which is a shame, but we can't have nice things.

Re:Tell HN: Amazon now owns 3.0.0.0/8 by still_grokking on Thursday November 08, 2018 @05:35PM (#18410688)
The technical explanation of multicast is quite good. But the reason it isn't available on the internet has nothing to do with the technical hurdles.

It isn't used because of the economics behind the ISP business.

With multicast a single sender can have arbitrary many receivers but sends its data only once. The network infrastructure 'clones' than that data on its way to the receivers as necessary. But that's not in line with the economic interests of an ISP.

With unicast the sender has to use increasingly more bandwidth when he wants to reach more receivers, and the ISP gets payed for that additional bandwidth. The more bandwidth the sender uses the more money makes the ISP. With multicast on the other hand the sender needs to send everything only once no mater how many receivers are listening.

Imagine you could send an audio or video stream to potentially everyone with internet access in the whole world but would need to pay only for the bandwidth of exactly one stream. That would be very nice for you, or Spotify, or Netflix, but not such a good deal as the current one for your ISP.

That's why ISPs don't sell multicast connectivity. Technically it would be easy. The current network-infrastructure would be able to handle multicast (almost) without any additional effort on the carrier side. After all the technology is build in in almost every switch or router for years now. Live streaming of AV media would be possible for everyone with internet access. One would not need the bandwidth of say YouTube to reach as many receivers as they do. But that will never happen because ISPs just aren't interested in providing multicast connectivity!

Re:Tell HN: Amazon now owns 3.0.0.0/8 by toomuchtodo on Thursday November 08, 2018 @08:31PM (#18411708)
> Imagine you could send an audio or video stream to potentially everyone with internet access in the whole world but would need to pay only for the bandwidth of exactly one stream. That would be very nice for you, or Spotify, or Netflix, but not such a good deal as the current one for your ISP.

This mostly happens with Akamai [1] and Netflix [2] CDN appliances on edge networks though (content caching boxes used to offload transit or peering fabric traffic). I'd argue Multicast didn't take off because of "tragedy of the commons" issues; ISPs don't want to support additional complex network routing technologies (at additional, substantial cost) when existing one to many unicast solutions (mentioned above) are sufficient.

[1] https://www.akamai.com/us/en/multimedia/documents/akamai/aka...

[2] https://media.netflix.com/en/company-blog/how-netflix-works-...

Re:Tell HN: Amazon now owns 3.0.0.0/8 by leereeves on Thursday November 08, 2018 @09:10PM (#18411864)
There's also the argument that few people want it, because multicast is only useful for synchronized streams.

Netflix, Spotify, and other services with on-demand content couldn't use it unless they made the service worse by forcing viewers to wait for a multicast.

Re:Tell HN: Amazon now owns 3.0.0.0/8 by rolandog on Friday November 09, 2018 @10:36AM (#18415141)
I bet they'd still have significant savings if they made everyone wait in 5-second lapses.

Pausing and resuming elsewhere would mean changing to a different multicast stream or starting a new one if there weren't any before.

Re:Tell HN: Amazon now owns 3.0.0.0/8 by voltagex_ on Thursday November 08, 2018 @06:52PM (#18411145)
Internode and iiNet (at least) in Australia did multicast IPTV for a while over ADSL2.

https://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/2521333

Re:Tell HN: Amazon now owns 3.0.0.0/8 by convolvatron on Tuesday November 20, 2018 @11:10AM (#18494899)
you make a good argument against usage based billing
Re:Tell HN: Amazon now owns 3.0.0.0/8 by marv3lls on Friday November 09, 2018 @04:28AM (#18413326)
Because capitalism.

Also:

We have the technology! But capitalism.

Re:Tell HN: Amazon now owns 3.0.0.0/8 by convolvatron on Tuesday November 20, 2018 @11:13AM (#18494926)
not even. more like "we've got a model that making us lots of money, lets not change just because some people keep whining about 'efficiency' and 'democratization'"
Re:Tell HN: Amazon now owns 3.0.0.0/8 by URSpider94 on Thursday November 08, 2018 @10:27PM (#18412129)
Before there was YouTube, there was MBone, a way to syndicate multicast content across the web. With multicast, in theory millions of subscribers can watch a video streamed from a single laptop (as long as they all watch in sync).

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mbone

Re:Tell HN: Amazon now owns 3.0.0.0/8 by pacificmint on Thursday November 08, 2018 @01:30PM (#18408572)
ARIN and RIPE are two of the five regional internet registries:

AFRINIC: African Network Information Center ARIN: American Registry for Internet Numbers APNIC: Asia-Pacific Network Information Centre LACNIC: Latin America and Caribbean Network Information Centre RIPE: Réseaux IP Européens

Re:Tell HN: Amazon now owns 3.0.0.0/8 by minusf on Friday November 09, 2018 @03:55AM (#18413192)
Re:Tell HN: Amazon now owns 3.0.0.0/8 by merb on Thursday November 08, 2018 @01:42PM (#18408703)
multicast is like a broadcast except that it is authenticated, i.e each device that is authenticated against a certain multicast will get the content.

it's mostly used for internet television or other multimedia stuff.

(some stuff is/was unallocated, since some early users tought it's a good idea to actually use some unallocated stuff to do bgp..., testing or routing per se (especially cisco routers) or even login pages, exist nodes, i.e. 1.0.0.0 was a problematic ip, but since cloudflare grabbed the 1.1.1.1 I think people will stop doing stupid things)

Re:Tell HN: Amazon now owns 3.0.0.0/8 by sofaofthedamned on Thursday November 08, 2018 @03:58PM (#18409965)
It's nothing to do with authentication, it's simply indicating you want the data. If authentication or encryption is used it's nothing to do with multicast.
Re:Tell HN: Amazon now owns 3.0.0.0/8 by richardwhiuk on Thursday November 08, 2018 @11:58AM (#18407706)
Similarly aged - https://xkcd.com/195/
Re:Tell HN: Amazon now owns 3.0.0.0/8 by alexnewman on Thursday November 08, 2018 @11:34PM (#18412346)
I thought google had 8/8