"I could get hit by a bus and die tomorrow"

Ironically, when I am sleep deprived I am more accident prone and more likely to get hit by a bus.

But what's almost certain, if I sleep less than 7 hours for more than 1 week, I will catch a cold. My immune system doesn't work as well without sufficient sleep.

Same, it’s like clockwork for me if I get three or more bad nights of sleep in a row

Why do nerds have this thing where they think they got it all figured out. Like everything is a mathematical system where you can prove that A+B=C.

Well you have to make your decisions based on something right? I'm not sure what you're advocating here, unless it's that we shouldn't think about life decisions too hard. The fact that math is involved doesn't automatically mean the reasoning is shallow.

It's referring to the engineer's disease:

https://ask.metafilter.com/297591/Origin-of-the-term-Enginee...

You see it in popular commentary sometimes- the ideas of engineers, often specifically software engineers, claiming unique knowledge by deriving from first principles, in fields they are but laymen in.

I rather trust an engineer in random subjects than anyone else that is not a professional in the field.

Why? Why not doctors? Physicists? Geologists? Scientists of other disciplines? Mathematicians? Statisticians? Why give engineers- and I presume, software engineers, specifically- that extra credit?

Clearly because software engineers are the only people gifted with the true ability to reason. All other lowly professions just memorize facts in books. /s

People really seem to hate software engineers here.

People dislike arrogance, and are embarrassed by peers giving their field a bad name through arrogance.

>Well you have to make your decisions based on something right? I'm not sure what you're advocating here

Um, don't make-up stupid reasons to do things and justify it with math while ignoring the advice coming from experts in human biology.

The GP's same line of reasoning could be used to justify doing cocaine every night. Think of all the extra time you are getting!

It's the same kind of thing we get with politics, where people decide what they believe, and then work backwards to acquire evidence for it.

It's not just politics. We're so hard wired with everything.

I'm pretty confident the tendency to think you have it all figured out is not scoped to nerd-dom.

It's cargo cult intellectualism. It's extremely prevalent in tech communities.

Being underslept makes me grumpy, irritable, unable to focus and pessimistic. All the time.

Having enough sleep lifts up my mood, I am naturally joyful, with easy and reliable access to my memory, and relaxed. All day long.

For me, I know that having fewer pleasurable activities in well-rested mode beats the grinding experience of more stuff in grumpy mode.

Being 90-100% present and able to enjoy fewer things is better than being 30-60% present, and in partial agony, with more things.

So I prioritize sleep which forces me to do less unnecessary stuff.

You are 100% right. The days I sleep less is when am cranky, unable to focus. Its worse in the morning gets better as the day progresses. I work from home, so on those days I'll take a nap and it's a huge upliftment in the mood. And I've had those work weeks, where you don't get enough sleep and I've almost had accidents, screwed up shit at work.

I agree with you. Some people want to live well into their 80s and 90s. I look at most people in their 80s and 90s and cringe. Loads of pills. Walkers. Cognitive struggles. etc.

I'm fine living until 65 if it was a full, happy, productive life. I don't need to live forever, nor do I want to.

But low sleep is going to impact your perception during waking life. You’re not going to get the maximum cognitive productivity or the maximum emotional enjoyment out of life.

It’s like working smarter vs. working harder.

I don't quite get it - why do you think I need the maximum possible cognitive productivity out of my life? If I'm delivering enough to get the job done, that's enough for me, I don't need to invest every minute of my day in maximizing my cognitive productivity over my enjoyment of life. If I'm giving up spending time with my family and friends, working on personal projects or even just catching up on a TV show I enjoy, I'd say that's a better use of my time than sleeping.

I see no reason to think it has significant impact on emotional enjoyment though as you're suggesting - these studies impact learning primarily which wouldn't seem to be deeply involved there. In fact, studies exist showing positive impacts for depression patients.

> I see no reason to think it has significant impact on emotional enjoyment though as you're suggesting - these studies impact learning primarily which wouldn't seem to be deeply involved there.

Please, sleep is essential for emotional stability. I know you rely a lot on self-study, many of us on HN do, but schedule half an hour to talk with your doctor or with a psychologist, psychiatrist or sleep-specialist, and let them convince you rather than letting me do it.

Sleep is absurdly important in all aspects of life, memory integration, resting, repairing the body, emotional regulation.

Not to mention, you are way, way less prone to diseases like cancer, alzheimers, fatigue, depression...

And there are other aspects of sleeping that are interesting and enjoyable too, time slept is not time lost, you dream while sleeping, you know? If you really want to optimize time lived, then you should go for 8 hours of sleep and learn about lucid dreaming, for instance.

> In fact, studies exist showing positive impacts for depression patients.

Not sleeping does indeed have a positive impact patients with depression (and anxiety). I can tell you this because I am one of those people. Out of personal experience, yes absolutely, poor sleep for one day makes you feel better. Why? Because you're so incredibly fucking tired that you literally can't even bother to be anxious.

It is horrifying.

Please for gods sake have some respect for yourself and for your body.

It has a significant impact on my emotional enjoyment. I feel happier, less grumpy, less anxious, when I sleep my full 8

I feel less grumpy and less anxious, each time I sleep my full 8, but I'd be hesitant to equate that sensation with "happier". If I do that for an extended period of time, I feel bored, existential, "socially unproductive", and begin to get a creeping sense of being a rat in a ratrace.

If I sacrifice some of those 8 hours, I feel grumpy, moody, occasionally a bit depressed, but overall get to do more small day-to-day things of value that give me a genuine sense of fulfillment on top of that.

>If I do that for an extended period of time, I feel bored, existential, "socially unproductive", and begin to get a creeping sense of being a rat in a ratrace.

Have you considered that your life is boring and that you're actually participating in a rat race and sleep is allowing you to identify that?

> Have you considered that your life is boring and that you're actually participating in a rat race and sleep is allowing you to identify that?

I don't need sleep to identify that ;)

So you aren't really "happier", you've just chosen a self-prescribed medication to make you seem happier?

That's life for most people. Have you been born yesterday?

How old are you? You sound young (under 35). Once you reach 35 and probably earlier, you will change your mind.

When you're young your body can take almost everything. I know that when I was 20-22 I would sleep maximum 6 hours per day because I felt the way you describe.

Now if I don't take at least 7.5 hours per night (with as few interruptions as possible), my life goes to hell, I feel drained, tired and lost, with depression looming.

I had this view for a while, until I thought about it from the perspective of my loved ones. They may very well prefer that I live past 65.

You sound like you're in your twenties. I think you're setting up a false dichotomy, but it's your life. YOLO!

Well, I can't get any enjoyment when I'm sleepy. Try to watch a movie, I fall asleep; try to read a book, I fall asleep. So if you lack sleep you can't get enjoyment anyway.