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Re:Trump Just Signed a Law That Changes Life Aboard Airlines by giggles_giggles on Friday October 12, 2018 @03:49PM (#18204191)
I see one of the new regs is this: >bans e-cigarettes from planes;

You already can't bring vapes in checked luggage, so what are the nicotine addicted supposed to do? Switch to cigarettes at their destination, since they can't take their vapes along with them? This might be trivial to some folks, but I know people for whom this will be an absolute nightmare.

Anyway, this is easy for the non-addicted to see as a non-issue or a minor change, but for those who have nicotine habits, this makes airplanes that much more of a hellish experience than they already are. Worse, it actively punishes the folks trying to get away from smoking analog cigarettes, because it makes it nigh impossible for them to take their substitute when they travel..

Re:Trump Just Signed a Law That Changes Life Aboard Airlines by resonanttoe on Friday October 12, 2018 @03:56PM (#18204246)
IANAL but I think you're safe to bring it on board.

SEC. 534 from https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/4/te... just seeks to classify E-cigs in the same class as traditional cigarettes. There's no prohibition on carrying them onboard, only usage.

Re:Trump Just Signed a Law That Changes Life Aboard Airlines by giggles_giggles on Friday October 12, 2018 @05:02PM (#18204702)
Yes thank you! My apologies, I misunderstood the regulation. The article reported it as a ban, and I thought that meant they were no longer allowed to be carried on board. AFAIK actually using them has been banned for awhile? But perhaps it was only de facto banned.
Re:Trump Just Signed a Law That Changes Life Aboard Airlines by SOLAR_FIELDS on Friday October 12, 2018 @10:42PM (#18206093)
I believe they were banned by airlines specifically but I am not sure if they were federally banned - meaning I am not sure if you could actually get fined for just using one.
Re:Trump Just Signed a Law That Changes Life Aboard Airlines by chomp on Friday October 12, 2018 @03:53PM (#18204221)
Ecigs are incredibly annoying to me personally. The vapor is usually some sickly sweet cloud that gets everywhere and I usually smell like jolly rancher or worthers original after being near one. If someone is that addicted, there's gums and patches that should be sufficient.

There's over a hundred people sharing that space, and we need to be courteous to everyone else for the small amount of time we're crammed together.

Re:Trump Just Signed a Law That Changes Life Aboard Airlines by pmilla1606 on Friday October 12, 2018 @04:13PM (#18204376)
I don't think anyone was suggesting actually vaping on the plane next to other people - I'm pretty sure that was never cool with flight attendants and/or other passengers.

The question is: if I am not allowed to bring (potentially expensive and/or hard-to-find) e-cigs on board, what do I do when I land? Can I put them in checked luggage? Do I have to throw them out if I forget they're on me? Too bad?

I don't have any answers but I personally use an e-cig to keep me from going back to the real thing (real cigarettes that is).

Re:Trump Just Signed a Law That Changes Life Aboard Airlines by Falling3 on Friday October 12, 2018 @03:58PM (#18204270)
> There's over a hundred people sharing that space, and we need to be courteous to everyone else for the small amount of time we're crammed together.

How do you think this actually change impacts people _while_ on the plane since vapes have already been banned from carry-ons? Your comment doesn't seem to be relevant to this change.

Re:Trump Just Signed a Law That Changes Life Aboard Airlines by Jtsummers on Friday October 12, 2018 @04:03PM (#18204304)
> since vapes have already been banned from carry-ons

That's not true. They are allowed on carry-on, but not checked bags. The change only bans their use on planes, not their presence.

https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/whatcanibring/...

Re:Trump Just Signed a Law That Changes Life Aboard Airlines by IvyMike on Friday October 12, 2018 @04:00PM (#18204282)
He's wondering what to do when he steps off the plane, jonesing for a nic fix.
Re:Trump Just Signed a Law That Changes Life Aboard Airlines by hbosch on Saturday October 13, 2018 @10:20AM (#18208061)
This is why I am proposing an amendment to this bill that also bans farting and taking your shoes off.
Re:Trump Just Signed a Law That Changes Life Aboard Airlines by Jtsummers on Friday October 12, 2018 @03:56PM (#18204254)
E-cigarette smoking is prohibited, not the e-cigarettes themselves. That's a poorly worded summary of the change.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/302/...

SEC. 409

Adds e-cigarettes to Section 41706 of title 49 of the US Code and bans their use on planes (equivalent to the ban on the use of cigarettes).

Re:Trump Just Signed a Law That Changes Life Aboard Airlines by mrep on Friday October 12, 2018 @09:34PM (#18205893)
Wasn't that already the law?
Re:Trump Just Signed a Law That Changes Life Aboard Airlines by Jtsummers on Friday October 12, 2018 @10:33PM (#18206068)
Apparently not. Cigarette use was banned by law. E-cigarette use was only banned by convention or airline policy.
Re:Trump Just Signed a Law That Changes Life Aboard Airlines by notacoward on Friday October 12, 2018 @04:03PM (#18204305)
> what are the nicotine addicted supposed to do?

Patches. Like many people I know used to use before vaping became A Thing.

Re:Trump Just Signed a Law That Changes Life Aboard Airlines by stephengillie on Friday October 12, 2018 @06:49PM (#18205273)
Or gum, or even chew if you're desperate. There are almost as many smokeless tobacco options as there are smokeless cannabis options.
Re:Trump Just Signed a Law That Changes Life Aboard Airlines by laken on Friday October 12, 2018 @04:01PM (#18204287)
The reason for the e-cig ban in checked baggage is due to the chance of combustion, as if it exploded in your carry-on, it can be extinguished.

It's similar to the Samsung Note ban not too long ago, even though no Samsung Notes ever exploded in-flight, they had known problems with the battery. Air travel is crazy about not taking chances, and many e-cigs have shady bargain-bin lithium batteries.

Re:Trump Just Signed a Law That Changes Life Aboard Airlines by ddingus on Friday October 12, 2018 @06:41PM (#18205235)
And or shady power management circuits
Re:Trump Just Signed a Law That Changes Life Aboard Airlines by TeMPOraL on Friday October 12, 2018 @03:55PM (#18204237)
I don't understand all those bans on e-cigarettes that pop up. They're essentially harmless, as opposed to "analog ones". I get that some people don't like to see any kind of smoke in general, but actual smoking is a public health problem, and IMO society should be supportive of e-cigarettes as a quite decent solution to this problem.
Re:Trump Just Signed a Law That Changes Life Aboard Airlines by cm2187 on Friday October 12, 2018 @08:49PM (#18205741)
Irrespective of the health effect and fire hazard, I think it is reasonable to not allow passengers to use a device that generate a strong smell in a confined space where fellow passengers do not have the choice to move away (and I would assume common decency wouldn't require a law).
Re:Trump Just Signed a Law That Changes Life Aboard Airlines by logfromblammo on Friday October 12, 2018 @04:21PM (#18204426)
The devices look to my eye to be suspiciously close to a dispersal device for chemical or biological weapons just as they are. With a fully charged battery, some modifications, and some TATP in place of the propylene glycol, they would also make a decent fuselage-breaching bomb. I could see how they might be considered a security risk. I have heard about vape-battery explosions, just as I have heard about cell phone and laptop battery explosions.

I think they could easily be checked in baggage with the same precautions as a firearm. Battery out, fluid reservoir empty, and in a flight-approved, locked container.

That said, I was on a cave tour once and some jackass was vaping inside the cave. The guide reminded him "no smoking" and he kept on puffing, explaining, "I'm not smoking. It's a vape." It was already too late to remove him from the tour.

People didn't ban cigarette smoking specifically because of the cigarettes. It was because it was the most common means for people to blithely pollute the local air. Vape fluid might be less overtly toxic and more pleasant-smelling than cigarette smoke, but that doesn't mean I want your candy-flavored solvent precipitating out of the air onto my clothes. When you're in an enclosed space without openable ventilation windows, like a cave or airliner cabin or elevator, don't smoke, don't intentionally fart, don't take your shoes off to air out your stinky socks, and don't vape.

Re:Trump Just Signed a Law That Changes Life Aboard Airlines by Nasrudith on Friday October 12, 2018 @05:07PM (#18204734)
Part of it is the perpetual wishful thinking of nicotine addicts who think that since it is technically not smoking so they can do it anywhere. I recall radio ads billing this "benefit" even and speaking of the satisfaction of a "quitting smoking" device.
Re:Trump Just Signed a Law That Changes Life Aboard Airlines by TeMPOraL on Saturday October 13, 2018 @12:34AM (#18206443)
That was kind of a selling point, and what I'm essentially suggesting is it should be the case to some extent, out of concern for public health benefits. You shouldn't be able to vape everywhere, but e-cigs shouldn't also be more banned than regular cigs.

(No conflict of interest here; I'm not, and never was a smoker.)

Re:Trump Just Signed a Law That Changes Life Aboard Airlines by Theodores on Friday October 12, 2018 @07:47PM (#18205490)
"Analog cigarettes" - I will be adding that to my lexicon.

For instance, 'just think, there was a time when you could smoke proper analog cigarettes on Concorde with the flight attendants able to sell you more, by the box of 200, duty free. They even had books of matches spare to help you light them.'

Re:Trump Just Signed a Law That Changes Life Aboard Airlines by Jtsummers on Friday October 12, 2018 @03:58PM (#18204266)
This is not a ban on the e-cigarettes, just on their use on the plane. You can still carry them to your destination.
Re:Trump Just Signed a Law That Changes Life Aboard Airlines by TeMPOraL on Friday October 12, 2018 @04:18PM (#18204408)
Parent implied you can't bring them on board at all (checked or hand).

Also, I was making a more general point. I see e-cig bans everywhere I go, both in my country and abroad.

Re:Trump Just Signed a Law That Changes Life Aboard Airlines by jplayer01 on Friday October 12, 2018 @04:13PM (#18204377)
... what makes you think e-cigarettes are harmless?
Re:Trump Just Signed a Law That Changes Life Aboard Airlines by TeMPOraL on Friday October 12, 2018 @04:21PM (#18204421)
They don't contain any of the substances that are harmful in analog cigarettes. They're essentially nicotine + stage smoke.
Re:Trump Just Signed a Law That Changes Life Aboard Airlines by notacoward on Friday October 12, 2018 @06:02PM (#18205056)
They don't have the same harmful chemicals as "analog" cigarettes, but the combustion by-products are still not something a rational person would want in their lungs.
Re:Trump Just Signed a Law That Changes Life Aboard Airlines by elipsey on Friday October 12, 2018 @06:37PM (#18205218)
I wouldn't argue that they're harmless but my understanding is that combustion is not involved, and that is exactly why they are presumed to be _less_ harmful than smoking.
Re:Trump Just Signed a Law That Changes Life Aboard Airlines by dmm on Friday October 12, 2018 @07:00PM (#18205316)
Cigarettes kill 50% of long term users. Being safer than that is not a big accomplishment.
Re:Trump Just Signed a Law That Changes Life Aboard Airlines by elipsey on Friday October 12, 2018 @07:01PM (#18205323)
I agree completely. I don't mean to suggests that vaping is a good idea, only that it apparently doesn't have PICs in it.
Re:Trump Just Signed a Law That Changes Life Aboard Airlines by TeMPOraL on Saturday October 13, 2018 @12:29AM (#18206431)
Being safer in general isn't. Being safer while also being a psychologically acceptable substitute for smokers - this is the achievement.
Re:Trump Just Signed a Law That Changes Life Aboard Airlines by ChristianBundy on Friday October 12, 2018 @07:05PM (#18205347)
This is correct. The mixture is almost always propylene glycol, vegetable glycerin, nicotine, and flavoring. I don't know of any negative effects of propylene glycol and vegetable glycerin, and as long as you don't use a carcinogenic flavoring (they exist) your biggest problem will likely be nicotine.

I don't think nicotine is good for you, but vaporized nicotine seems much less dangerous than smoking a cigarette.

Re:Trump Just Signed a Law That Changes Life Aboard Airlines by tialaramex on Friday October 12, 2018 @09:27PM (#18205871)
Even glycol and glycerin vapor are probably not a good idea to inhale. They could hardly be as bad as smoking cigarettes, but so far basically anything you breathe in that isn't air turns out to be a bad idea once we study it thoroughly.
Re:Trump Just Signed a Law That Changes Life Aboard Airlines by loco5niner on Friday October 12, 2018 @05:06PM (#18204726)
Re:Trump Just Signed a Law That Changes Life Aboard Airlines by cobbzilla on Friday October 12, 2018 @08:49PM (#18205742)
also a good & nuanced read: https://www.gwern.net/Nicotine
Re:Trump Just Signed a Law That Changes Life Aboard Airlines by ChoGGi on Friday October 12, 2018 @07:54PM (#18205522)
Your second link mentions LD50 in adults of around 30-60 mg of nicotine. In children the LD50 is around 10 mg.

Seems harmful enough to me.

Re:Trump Just Signed a Law That Changes Life Aboard Airlines by nofurtheruse on Friday October 12, 2018 @08:55PM (#18205759)
even advil has an LD50. dosage matters
Re:Trump Just Signed a Law That Changes Life Aboard Airlines by TeMPOraL on Saturday October 13, 2018 @12:26AM (#18206426)
Even water has LD50.
Re:Trump Just Signed a Law That Changes Life Aboard Airlines by anticensor on Saturday October 13, 2018 @06:24AM (#18207318)
12L/day.
Re:Trump Just Signed a Law That Changes Life Aboard Airlines by netsharc on Saturday October 13, 2018 @05:08AM (#18207136)
As many have replied, taking it is apparently still legal, just not smoking it on board.

I also assumed it a total ban, and I wondered if the tobacco lobby had something to do with it: legend has it that the govt wanted to ban bringing lighters into the cabin after 9/11, but the tobacco lobby intervened. And guess what, nope they were not on the banned items list.

Re:Trump Just Signed a Law That Changes Life Aboard Airlines by tokyodude on Friday October 12, 2018 @05:40PM (#18204912)
what did you do for the many years between total smoking ban on planes and the introduction of vape?
Re:Trump Just Signed a Law That Changes Life Aboard Airlines by berbec on Friday October 12, 2018 @03:56PM (#18204244)
I wonder about this too. As a long-time vaper who actually quit smoking with them, this makes airline travel a nightmare. Do I mail my vape to my destination? Buy a new one on the way? Attempt to sneak it on with the horror that possibly opens up?
Re:Trump Just Signed a Law That Changes Life Aboard Airlines by ghaff on Friday October 12, 2018 @04:05PM (#18204316)
You put them in your carry-on and leave them there as you do today.
Re:Trump Just Signed a Law That Changes Life Aboard Airlines by Simulacra on Friday October 12, 2018 @05:21PM (#18204809)
You could quite smoking...
Re:Trump Just Signed a Law That Changes Life Aboard Airlines by ddingus on Friday October 12, 2018 @07:10PM (#18205361)
Yeah. Easy to say.

Seriously, doing that is often extremely difficult. For many in tech, and people oriented / facing work, there is a cycle of stress and or anxiety relief that amplifies when quitting.

Ability to create and interact with people in difficult or higher pressure scenarios are all, can be, very significantly impacted.

For many, really quiting takes a significant life event, or a substantial period of time away from the triggers as well as the cigarettes.

Of course people vary. Some can do it cold, others patch, others can use drugs like Chantix.

In my own scenario, Chantix was very bad news. Did not work, and I had those side effects. Big. Was scary and all escalated over a matter of a couple weeks.

I had started in the military, and quitting was a serious struggle. Vapor pens got me off tobacco, and the benefits were more or less immediate! Overall well being shot up fast, and continues on a slow ramp up.

As harm reduction, I have little question in my mind. The two are almost not comparable. Night and day type stuff

I have been diluting the percentages down and it has reached the point where I am going longer times without thinking about it much. All that with marginal inpact on create and people handling / interaction too.

Life has been tough on a number of fronts, basically denying me the time / space needed to deal hard core.

Vaping ranges from a fairly tepid thing to obnoxious big clouds where the room ends up a sticky mist!

Mutual consideration points to some regulation, and so far I see nothing unreasonable.

People judging others harshly on various vices has never been a thing I find productive. (Not implying you are, just making a germane point here) Minimizing harm, making sure people have options, treatment when they get into trouble are all much more productive and sane policy.

In basic terms, vaping is not even in the same class as smoking is. The big cloud people do approach that, and a few of them going to town can make a mess on par with smokers generally, but doing that is an edge case.

The vast majority will do it in the same way people use wine, as an example. Real addiction will creep up on people. Happens, and the very last thing they need is a toxic culture adding difficulty to what will already be difficult enough. Just embracing harm reduction would have a hard to miss, positive impact.

Re:Trump Just Signed a Law That Changes Life Aboard Airlines by Simulacra on Friday October 12, 2018 @10:46PM (#18206110)
What if cigarettes were $20 a pack? Would that help?
Re:Trump Just Signed a Law That Changes Life Aboard Airlines by Broken_Hippo on Saturday October 13, 2018 @06:29AM (#18207328)
Not really. It sometimes makes more people try to quit, but the problems with quitting still remain. It isn't always a rational decision to start or continue smoking.

What would actually help more folks would be better research to quitting. Better drugs and other methods to help folks quit (I couldn't tolerate Chantrix either). Making these things available to people for free. Not just "free for 4-6 weeks once" but free for as long as it takes people to quit, for as many attempts as they need to quit. If you are poor, some of the fear is that a patch might not work, and then suddenly you have no money for cigs.

Re:Trump Just Signed a Law That Changes Life Aboard Airlines by UsernameProxy on Saturday October 13, 2018 @12:40PM (#18208790)
The cost of patches and gum, etc, is definitely an issue for some of us. I've tried and failed quitting smoking several times cold turkey and can't afford all the other stuff.
Re:Trump Just Signed a Law That Changes Life Aboard Airlines by ddingus on Saturday October 13, 2018 @01:18PM (#18208977)
You may want to try a nicotine salt vape.

That worked.

I am currently tapering down by diluting the juice. Yhat is working nicely.

Unlike tobacco, I am not in a hurry. Ending the health hazard was a source of constant angst. Today, it is about reducing cost and moving toward a more pleasure centered experience. Just getting rid of triggers.

The SMOK brand refillable vapor pens are great, not a lot of money.

Strength is there, at half the cost to start.

Good luck. Don't let people tell you it isn't rough. It is. I have kicked supposedly harder things before. Sucked, but doable.

Tobacco is no joke.

Re:Trump Just Signed a Law That Changes Life Aboard Airlines by UsernameProxy on Saturday October 13, 2018 @01:27PM (#18209010)
I've actually quit for several months a couple of times, but the first really bad day made me run straight back to it. I guess part of what I need to do is educate myself on better coping mechanisms.

I will have a look at the SMOK stuff - thanks.

Re:Trump Just Signed a Law That Changes Life Aboard Airlines by ddingus on Saturday October 13, 2018 @03:13PM (#18209519)
Infinix or Fit. Get the high strength nicotine salt juice.

There is a shift in how you deal with things. It is like an off brand smoke, or the difference between a menthol and regular.

It passes. Takes a day, maybe two. Once it has passed, you will find going to a real tobacco feels bad. It always was, but you became inured to it over time.

The other thing you will find is your craving isn't necessarily for nicotine. It's the extras, and of course, those are bad too. All an ugly cycle.

Scrape $50 together. That's enough for a unit, couple refillable chambers, and some good juice. Again, nicotine salt is where it's at. Get the highest strength, and use the device in moderation. You will self-select everything else quickly after that initial shift.

Then, no matter what, stay with it for a time. It will only take a few successful times for the psychological impact to fade and confidence grow.

From there, you've got a much healthier cost management problem. It's a nice problem to have.

Me? I'm tapering off just to end this shit. :D

Re:Trump Just Signed a Law That Changes Life Aboard Airlines by ddingus on Friday October 12, 2018 @11:19PM (#18206214)
They are in places. So what? That's not really the issue.

I don't need any help personally. For me, I'm in a good place, few worries.

Others may need help, and they may even make that known too. Posing that question isn't really how to get at the matter of help. For that to actually happen and be germane, understanding needs to come first.

I put what I did here to that end. Same with this comment.

Re:Trump Just Signed a Law That Changes Life Aboard Airlines by throwaway080383 on Friday October 12, 2018 @07:18PM (#18205391)
An absolute nightmare! A hellish experience!
Re:Trump Just Signed a Law That Changes Life Aboard Airlines by lxmorj on Saturday October 13, 2018 @02:55AM (#18206798)
Gum?
Re:Trump Just Signed a Law That Changes Life Aboard Airlines by krapp on Friday October 12, 2018 @04:07PM (#18204333)
>You already can't bring vapes in checked luggage, so what are the nicotine addicted supposed to do?

Put up with it or don't fly. The nicotine addicted don't have a right to nicotine.