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Re:Ask HN: What things have richly rewarded the time investe... by wallflower on Saturday September 29, 2018 @08:23AM (#18099961)
Going to a gym two to three times a week for small group training sessions.

In terms of investment, it is not as expensive as private training and it keeps you on track. The real investment is in you. Your most important asset is your ability to produce income. Having a healthier body helps maintain that ability. The damage that I do through typing is only barely counteracted by these training sessions. I don’t take typing for granted, having had soreness and pain for many years, and going to the gym and lifting weights has been the best action I’ve done towards addressing that. For you young and older people out there, do not take your ability to pound at a keyboard for granted. One day, it may start to lead to soreness which goes away after some rest. Eventually, the soreness does not go away.

The true returns are the cumulative effects of sticking with a healthy habit. You may not become “jacked” and super muscular but you will become fitter.

After almost two years, the benefits of regular exercise are so apparent that I have to hold back getting on my bully pulpit to encourage other friends to do so.

Re:Ask HN: What things have richly rewarded the time investe... by iamben on Saturday September 29, 2018 @08:36AM (#18100007)
I'll second this for but for any kind of exercise. If you're not disciplined enough (yet) to exercise by yourself, as the parent says, classes are a brilliant way to stick with it and keep motivated.

I get to the gym pretty much every day before work. The benefits are huge - more energy, better concentration, and of course just looking and feeling better in general.

Edit: for the deleted comment - I'm late 30s, not sure if that's young or not and I'm a night owl for sure. Also see a noticeable difference in those busy "I should skip the gym" periods if I don't go, as oppose to prioritising my exercise over my work (which yields far better results).

Re:Ask HN: What things have richly rewarded the time investe... by Hasz on Saturday September 29, 2018 @01:30PM (#18101616)
I am a big believer in regular strength training, to the point were I am generally in a worse mode for the day if I can't get a scheduled workout in.

If you want to get started, find a group or a program and jump in. I like nSuns + regular cardio, but the choice is going to depend on age and overall goals. I see my improving PRs and workout sets I've completed as both motivating and addicting.

StrongerbyScience has fantastic guides to most movements, and excellent, peer-reviewed training methodology.

Re:Ask HN: What things have richly rewarded the time investe... by ohyes on Saturday September 29, 2018 @08:28AM (#18099982)
I find that getting good exercise also helps me think. I feel more creative and happy if I’m getting my 30 minutes a day.

But it’s also about discipline, this sort of thing can only be accomplished with discipline, which is what really lets you accomplish things.

Re:Ask HN: What things have richly rewarded the time investe... by afarrell on Saturday September 29, 2018 @10:21AM (#18100483)
> discipline

For the benefit of my past self: discipline isn’t about punishment or being harsh with yourself. Discipline is the practice of saying to yourself “this is hard. This is scary. This is worth it and so I’m going to do it because I’m stronger than I think” and then following through with action.

EDIT: Sometimes the "following through with action" bit also involves knowing what you need to set yourself up for success (e.g. good food, enough sleep, encouragement from friends, the ear of a therapist, guidance from a coach, clarity on a goal) and enduring the discomfort that comes from the decisions required to get those.

Re:Ask HN: What things have richly rewarded the time investe... by cirgue on Saturday September 29, 2018 @12:11PM (#18101117)
Discipline is learning how to want to do something, not how to make yourself do something.
Re:Ask HN: What things have richly rewarded the time investe... by vertline3 on Sunday September 30, 2018 @10:25AM (#18106277)
How do I make myself want to do something? Serious question
Re:Ask HN: What things have richly rewarded the time investe... by Regardsyjc on Monday October 01, 2018 @12:16PM (#18114053)
I believe the point of discipline is to do something regardless whether you want to do it or not.

My favorite quote on discipline:

“A modern stoic knows that the surest way to discipline passion is to discipline time: decide what you want or ought to do during the day, then always do it at exactly the same moment every day, and passion will give you no trouble.” - W.H. Auden

Re:Ask HN: What things have richly rewarded the time investe... by vertline3 on Thursday October 04, 2018 @10:25AM (#18140133)
Thank you for the nice reply and quote.
Re:Ask HN: What things have richly rewarded the time investe... by cirgue on Saturday October 06, 2018 @12:55PM (#18156015)
Connecting the future outcome you want with your present experience. Running when it’s 40 and rainy sucks to start, but after your warmed up and for the rest of the day you will be glad to have done so. Starting definitely sucks, but if you’re convinced enough in the present that the future state is worth it, you will want to run and you will want to push through it. That’s a skill that can be cultivated.
Re:Ask HN: What things have richly rewarded the time investe... by vertline3 on Thursday October 11, 2018 @01:08AM (#18191078)
Thank you for your reply!
Re:Ask HN: What things have richly rewarded the time investe... by afarrell on Saturday September 29, 2018 @03:53PM (#18102425)
Wouldn’t that be motivation?
Re:Ask HN: What things have richly rewarded the time investe... by pnloyd on Saturday September 29, 2018 @12:00PM (#18101067)
I have been the the complete abyss of creating muscular skeletal issues for myself. If you really don't want to mess around I think swimming is the way to go. Couple with curcumin / boswellia / magnesium to take the edge off. If you really nail down the exercise / nutrition etc you can slowly but surely reverse these varieties of problems (personal experience)
Re:Ask HN: What things have richly rewarded the time investe... by cirgue on Saturday September 29, 2018 @12:05PM (#18101093)
Seconding swimming, just make sure you have good form. Also, if you’re having musculoskeletal issues, maybe pick a couple different activities and do them in rotation. Diversity in workouts is good if your objective is to stay healthy/generally strong as opposed to having a particular physique or because you want to excel at a sport.
Re:Ask HN: What things have richly rewarded the time investe... by shijie on Saturday September 29, 2018 @01:21PM (#18101560)
This is why I do triathlon + weightlifting. For me, it’s the perfect blend.
Re:Ask HN: What things have richly rewarded the time investe... by beenBoutIT on Saturday September 29, 2018 @04:50PM (#18102731)
Mini trampoline rebounding for cardio + weightlifting.
Re:Ask HN: What things have richly rewarded the time investe... by dominotw on Saturday September 29, 2018 @02:05PM (#18101813)
> If you really don't want to mess around I think swimming is the way to go.

I have been plauged by muscular/ligament issues too. I tried swimming and ended up hurting my rotator cuff, now I can't do repetitive overhead activities :\.

Re:Ask HN: What things have richly rewarded the time investe... by pnloyd on Saturday September 29, 2018 @03:38PM (#18102338)
I mean.. if it's really that bad you can always walk back and forth in the pool. I really do that sometimes.
Re:Ask HN: What things have richly rewarded the time investe... by dominotw on Sunday September 30, 2018 @09:55AM (#18106168)
yeah not a bad idead. i need to find plantar fasciitis sleves that are waterproof.

I am too young for this shit :( .

Re:Ask HN: What things have richly rewarded the time investe... by pnloyd on Tuesday October 09, 2018 @10:54PM (#18181606)
Me too.
Re:Ask HN: What things have richly rewarded the time investe... by MisterOctober on Saturday September 29, 2018 @03:01PM (#18102153)
Yep! I fell out of the exercise habit for an extended period and it was awful in all regards. Finally got back in the groove with moderate weights, bodyweight exercise, and kettlebell at home. Like the man said, 'mens sana in corpore sano'
Re:Ask HN: What things have richly rewarded the time investe... by elteto on Saturday September 29, 2018 @05:42PM (#18103027)
People are focusing on the asset comment too much, and IMHO missing the forest for the trees.

Let's add one more word:

    Your most important _material_ asset is your ability to produce income.
Bam. No more philosophical/moral connotations. It's almost tautological: your ability to generate material value is your most valued material asset.

It doesn't even have to refer to working as that value generator. If you have enough money in a bank account to live off the interest then that is your most valued material asset!

Re:Ask HN: What things have richly rewarded the time investe... by sridca on Saturday September 29, 2018 @10:07AM (#18100397)
I'd recommend calisthenics instead of going to a gym. Far less chances of getting injuries with bodyweight exercises.

This book is a good start: https://www.reddit.com/r/overcominggravity

Re:Ask HN: What things have richly rewarded the time investe... by tarsinge on Saturday September 29, 2018 @11:43AM (#18100986)
> Far less chances of getting injuries with bodyweight exercises

I found no evidence for this, arguments seems to boil down to an "appeal to nature". Many variations of bodyweight exercices are far from healthy for tendons (single arm push ups or single arm pull ups for example), even basic push ups are harder on the shoulders than dumbbell bench press.

If you keep the rep range above 15-20 the risk of injury is pretty minimal with weights.

With that said, bodyweight exercises can be a good alternative if you don't have access to a gym, or if you like to train outside on a playground. But be careful with some exercises because bodyweight != healthy.

Re:Ask HN: What things have richly rewarded the time investe... by sridca on Saturday September 29, 2018 @03:55PM (#18102435)
>> Far less chances of getting injuries with bodyweight exercises

> I found no evidence for this,

From Wikipedia:

""" Bodyweight exercises have a far lower risk of injury compared to using free weights and machines due to the absence of an external load that is placing strain on the muscles that they may or may not be able to deal with. However, the lower risk of injury is only provided that the athlete/trainee is progressing through the correct progressions and not immediately skipping to strenuous movements that can place undue and possibly harmful stress on ligaments, tendons, and other tissues. Although falling on the head, chest, buttocks, and falling backwards can occur, these are far less harmful injuries than dropping a weight on a body part, or having a joint extended beyond its natural range of motion due to a weight being used incorrectly. """

Re:Ask HN: What things have richly rewarded the time investe... by balfirevic on Sunday September 30, 2018 @10:10AM (#18106221)
That quote makes no sense. Load on the muscle is there with both bodyweight and weighted exercises - that's how you train the muscles. And the caveat about not skipping progressions works just as well for weighted exercises - you progress gradually so you never produce "strain on the muscles that they may or may not be able to deal with".
Re:Ask HN: What things have richly rewarded the time investe... by tarsinge on Saturday September 29, 2018 @04:33PM (#18102645)
I stand corrected on this, my sentence was too strong and large, I should have been more specific. I still maintain the rest of my points though.
Re:Ask HN: What things have richly rewarded the time investe... by sridca on Saturday September 29, 2018 @05:04PM (#18102817)
The quote actually addresses the rest of your points pertaining to calisthenics (correct progression, with good form, is important; those who "rush" are likely to get injured regardless of weights).
Re:Ask HN: What things have richly rewarded the time investe... by leesec on Saturday September 29, 2018 @11:02AM (#18100746)
I'll counterpoint this and say chances of getting injured can be pretty low if you take your time and study up on your form.

I'll also say as someone who thought he didn't need the gym because I would do calisthenics/yoga/barbell exercises at home, my back pain never went away until I started lifting heavy weights. I'd say likely because it stregthened my core which supports the back, but I'm no sports scientist.

Re:Ask HN: What things have richly rewarded the time investe... by malmsteen on Saturday September 29, 2018 @11:17AM (#18100829)
>>> I'll counterpoint this and say chances of getting injured can be pretty low if you take your time and study up on your form.

Yes absolutely ! And you build muscle WAY MORE FASTER with real weights versus calisthenics

The two rules of the gyms are basically : no machines, and 'form before weight' (i.e. master a movements at a given weight without feeling hurt before moving up).

The only two actually dangerous movements are deadlift and squats and it takes at least a PT sesion + a few "form check " on r/fitness to get it right but once it his mastered it's all good. Alsso bench press but it really start being possibly dangerous at 80kg and you are aready quite developped anyway so you are already supposed to master the basic of form an training.

Re:Ask HN: What things have richly rewarded the time investe... by balfirevic on Saturday September 29, 2018 @02:00PM (#18101773)
> The two rules of the gyms are basically : no machines

Machines are fine and useful. Better rule might be "don't only do machines". But even then, I'm pretty sure someone experienced could design a routine that would get them good results with nothing but machines.

Re:Ask HN: What things have richly rewarded the time investe... by malmsteen on Wednesday October 03, 2018 @02:15PM (#18133068)
They provoke a "backpropagation" of the force you are exercising in the orthognonals of the machine work axis directly into your joints. Risk of injury at heavy weights. doesnt happen with free weights
Re:Ask HN: What things have richly rewarded the time investe... by strls on Saturday September 29, 2018 @03:06PM (#18102182)
Where's the less chance of injury part coming from? It's much easier to master and incrementally load a fundamental weightlifting movement than a corresponding bodyweight progression. This means better form and more control - fewer injuries. I have tried both types of training for a while, and have concluded that weights are superior in every way. Unless the goal is mastery of a specific bodyweight skill.
Re:Ask HN: What things have richly rewarded the time investe... by sridca on Saturday September 29, 2018 @03:55PM (#18102436)
From Wikipedia:

""" Bodyweight exercises have a far lower risk of injury compared to using free weights and machines due to the absence of an external load that is placing strain on the muscles that they may or may not be able to deal with. However, the lower risk of injury is only provided that the athlete/trainee is progressing through the correct progressions and not immediately skipping to strenuous movements that can place undue and possibly harmful stress on ligaments, tendons, and other tissues. Although falling on the head, chest, buttocks, and falling backwards can occur, these are far less harmful injuries than dropping a weight on a body part, or having a joint extended beyond its natural range of motion due to a weight being used incorrectly. """

Re:Ask HN: What things have richly rewarded the time investe... by strls on Sunday September 30, 2018 @03:16PM (#18107811)
Well, this is just a bunch of nonsense.

Here are the logical ways to explain the misconception of injury being less common with bodyweight training:

1. Progress with BW is slow as crawl. All things being equal, lifting will improve strength much faster, leading to higher loads sooner. Higher loads always mean more injury potential. Faster progress is not magic - it's possible because all major muscle groups can be loaded precisely and gradually with weights as opposed to BW movements. You can take things as slowly as you want.

2. With BW, some movements simply cannot be loaded properly. For example there is nothing you can possibly do with just your body weight to put any serious load on your legs or low back. This already cuts one's potential for injury in half at the cost of neglecting the development of the lower half of your body. So instead of taking things slow with your barbel squats, you are stuck at 1-leg BW squats forever, which are only hard because of balance/stretching issues and are fairly trivial strength-wise.

3. With free weights, it's easier to be stupid and bite more than you can handle.

As I said, I've done both for enough time to appreciate pros and cons. There are reasons to practice BW training, but lower injury changes is not a good one.

Re:Ask HN: What things have richly rewarded the time investe... by maroonblazer on Saturday September 29, 2018 @10:44AM (#18100624)
Re:Ask HN: What things have richly rewarded the time investe... by atom-morgan on Saturday September 29, 2018 @10:28AM (#18100528)
I do calisthenics myself. How long have you been doing it? Can you do any of the more advanced movements? (Planche, front lever, back lever, handstand)
Re:Ask HN: What things have richly rewarded the time investe... by sridca on Saturday September 29, 2018 @01:09PM (#18101488)
About 2 years. Started out "skinny fat" (like most Indians), now have good muscle definition.

I'm not in any rush to do advanced movements. For me, perfect form (and safety) comes before anything else. I also practice "greasing the groove" (doing low reps more frequently), which helps to mentally learn the form as well, and make the exercises as natural as say lifting a glass of water.

I can do about 4 proper-form push-ups, though most often I train with incline push-ups. I also do bodyweight rows (using bars), and squats. Eventually I'd like to do stuff like front lever, but: petit à petit, l'oiseau fait son nid.

Re:Ask HN: What things have richly rewarded the time investe... by dominotw on Saturday September 29, 2018 @02:06PM (#18101827)
Watch out for your wrists though. Most ppl have weak wrists and end up hurting themsleves with bodyweight excerises.
Re:Ask HN: What things have richly rewarded the time investe... by giantsloth on Saturday September 29, 2018 @02:15PM (#18101889)
I recently started strength training as a software developer and it’s been a huge boon on my mental health, my confidence and for sticking with decent eating habits.

For people looking to get started, I would suggest Starting Strength, which is a book on Amazon (pretty lengthy, but extremely thorough) or Strong Lifts 5x5 (google it to find the program it’s free on the web).

The basic gist is to do full body barbell movements for 5 sets of 3 or 5 and increase the weight by 5 pounds (2.5 pound plates on each side of the barbell) per session.

The basic barbell movements are

  Squat
  Deadlift
  Overhead press
  Bench
  Bent over row
  (I don’t do power cleans)
Do YouTube proper form, benching especially can rip up your shoulder when done incorrectly.

YouTube channels I watch to keep motivated and to learn stuff like form and nutrition (they limit the bro science as far as my untrained eye can tell):

  Alan Thrall
  Jujimufu
  Eric Buggenhaggen
  Jeff Nippard
  Scooby1961
  Omarlsuf
Remember the following:

-no one is looking at at the gym

-lift only what you can lift, start slow, you will progress very quickly

-Commit to going every week three days a week, except for illness and injury

-Carefully watch form videos on YouTube for the lifts (Alan Thrall and The Art of Manliness are the best)

-If you do sustain an injury, let it heal for a weak or two, but continue lifting around the injury

-strength training is not body building, but it is the ideal place for creating a foundation of strength and overall health, you will lose weight, you will gain muscle and you will be out of the gym in under an hour with the basic barbell movements.

I’ve been lifting for 7 months now and I love it. I suggest everyone do it.

Re:Ask HN: What things have richly rewarded the time investe... by rane on Sunday September 30, 2018 @01:25AM (#18104599)
I would add Barbell Medicine to your list of youtube channels. They also have a podcast and produce lots of useful content.
Re:Ask HN: What things have richly rewarded the time investe... by fifnir on Saturday September 29, 2018 @10:35AM (#18100569)
> Your most important asset is your ability to produce income.

come on

Re:Ask HN: What things have richly rewarded the time investe... by oAlbe on Saturday September 29, 2018 @02:00PM (#18101775)
They aren't wrong. What are you going to do without your ability to produce income? Eat dirt and sleep under a bridge?
Re:Ask HN: What things have richly rewarded the time investe... by fifnir on Sunday September 30, 2018 @04:28PM (#18108215)
I don't doubt it's an important thing, I'm scoffing at "the most important".

Take almost ANY very important historical figure. Was their most important asset their intellect or talent or Idon'tknow, OR their ability to convert those into income?

Re:Ask HN: What things have richly rewarded the time investe... by bootlooped on Saturday September 29, 2018 @06:00PM (#18103135)
In Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs, physiological needs are placed at the foundation. This statement is not that different, since money is the foundation of almost everything a person does in the modern world.

It's not a statement on how things should be, or how we might want them to be. It's just a pragmatic acceptance of the way things are.

Re:Ask HN: What things have richly rewarded the time investe... by EpicEng on Saturday September 29, 2018 @07:12PM (#18103521)
Money is how we survive. It's not the money itself; it's the a ility to buy necessities. When you're living on the streets you realize real quick that money is about the most important thing becuaee it enables you to do everything else.