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Re:Drone Hobbyists Angered by Congress Ending the Aerial Wil... by reaperducer on Thursday September 27, 2018 @03:40PM (#18087885)
How about, "Drone hobbyists angered at pointless laws that treat their hobby like it's a problem"

I thought it was pointless, too, until I saw that video taken from a drone that hovered right above a passenger jet as it was landing at KLAS.

(Sorry I can't search for the video at work — no YT allowed.)

Re:Drone Hobbyists Angered by Congress Ending the Aerial Wil... by x220 on Thursday September 27, 2018 @05:00PM (#18088621)
Yes, now that it's double illegal, no one will do that anymore.
Re:Drone Hobbyists Angered by Congress Ending the Aerial Wil... by KirinDave on Thursday September 27, 2018 @05:28PM (#18088898)
It's more like quadruple illegal.

The thing is, these laws are really, really hard to enforce at the federal level and in general municipal and state governments already do an efficient job (and are happy to collect the fines from rich folks with a hobby) executing on local laws.

It's really quite unnecessary.

Re:Drone Hobbyists Angered by Congress Ending the Aerial Wil... by wbl on Friday September 28, 2018 @04:28AM (#18091821)
Foxhunt the control signal.
Re:Drone Hobbyists Angered by Congress Ending the Aerial Wil... by KirinDave on Friday September 28, 2018 @03:35PM (#18096369)
I don't use or scout military hardware but if I were planning to use fpv quadcopters for military use the first thing I'd do is get spread spectrum control hardware.
Re:Drone Hobbyists Angered by Congress Ending the Aerial Wil... by yial on Saturday September 29, 2018 @06:16AM (#18099614)
Most RC anymore used frequency hopping spread spectrum for control. Different brands use different amounts of frequencies they hop between. Though all still in the 2.4, 5.8, or different band. A very select few use two different wavelengths at once. (Dragonlink, crossfire)
Re:Drone Hobbyists Angered by Congress Ending the Aerial Wil... by gamblor956 on Thursday September 27, 2018 @06:05PM (#18089208)
You know what the difference between a regulatory infraction and a felony are?

One is a fine. The other is a few years in prison. It has quite a bit of a deterrent effect. It won't get everyone, but it will cut down on the number of people who try stunts like that.

Re:Drone Hobbyists Angered by Congress Ending the Aerial Wil... by wahern on Thursday September 27, 2018 @06:28PM (#18089391)
All they had to do was tweak some wording in 18 U.S.C. § 32 to cover reckless use of drones and other egregious behavior. See https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/32

But drones are hot so why not pass a complex bill with a complex mandate to satisfy regulators itching to pounce on drone hobbyists.

Frankly I assumed the behavior was already criminal under Federal law.[1] Anybody who thought it was okay to buzz airplanes is almost certainly not thinking about consequences.

[1] I'm not completely convinced it's not, FWIW, but I'm satisfied it's not covered by the above, which is the only relevant Federal criminal statute I could find. I'd bet it's already illegal in many states, though.

Re:Drone Hobbyists Angered by Congress Ending the Aerial Wil... by patmorgan23 on Thursday September 27, 2018 @11:16PM (#18090715)
This is the United States congee we're talking about here their are no simple solutions /s
Re:Drone Hobbyists Angered by Congress Ending the Aerial Wil... by x220 on Thursday September 27, 2018 @10:51PM (#18090615)
"Do you know what the difference between 20 years and life in prison are?"

What changes people's habits is the likelihood of punishment, not the severity of it.

Re:Drone Hobbyists Angered by Congress Ending the Aerial Wil... by close04 on Friday September 28, 2018 @04:43AM (#18091866)
Sure... slap on the wrist, prison time, same thing. Of course it makes a difference. Everyone sets an “acceptable” level beyond which it’s no longer worth it to break the rule. This is where the severity makes the difference.
Re:Drone Hobbyists Angered by Congress Ending the Aerial Wil... by cuboidGoat on Friday September 28, 2018 @09:43AM (#18093257)
The USA has high punishments for murder but less then 50% of murder investigations are solved.

Germany has much lower punishments for murder, but around 90% of murder investigations are solved.

Which of these do you think is the greater deterrence?

Re:Drone Hobbyists Angered by Congress Ending the Aerial Wil... by gamblor956 on Friday September 28, 2018 @12:44PM (#18094794)
Per local German coverage on reported crime statistics, many crimes go unreported, and a number of crimes that would be included in US crime statistics are exempted from German reporting.

Also, now that Germany has...diversity...the crime rate went up pretty significantly.

So I would say, all in all, that homogenous populations are the greatest deterrence, followed by the magnitude of punishment being significantly more important at a societal level, though the risk of getting caught dominates the thought process for regulatory/low-punishment crimes.

Re:Drone Hobbyists Angered by Congress Ending the Aerial Wil... by jakobegger on Saturday September 29, 2018 @07:00AM (#18099748)
are you saying that murders go unreported in Germany? I have a hard time believing that.
Re:Drone Hobbyists Angered by Congress Ending the Aerial Wil... by close04 on Friday September 28, 2018 @01:44PM (#18095339)
There’s also another aspect: whether it’s one life sentence or 5 consecutive might make very little difference. Since prisons in US are big business nobody deals in short sentences. Rehabilitation or deterrence are not the goals, so of course the strategy won’t have the effect you imagine.

When punishments are so disproportionately high a good chunk of the ofenders will stop caring. The preventative effect is gone, it’s more an incentive to escalate the crime to a level where it matches the punishment.

Re:Drone Hobbyists Angered by Congress Ending the Aerial Wil... by kwhitefoot on Friday September 28, 2018 @01:45PM (#18095350)
But without knowing how many murders and the relevant population sizes I'm not sure that your point is made.
Re:Drone Hobbyists Angered by Congress Ending the Aerial Wil... by JasonFruit on Friday September 28, 2018 @09:39AM (#18093222)
If they'd shoot me for speeding I'd do less of it.
Re:Drone Hobbyists Angered by Congress Ending the Aerial Wil... by leetcrew on Friday September 28, 2018 @06:08PM (#18097456)
if speeding was punishable by death but i were as likely to be caught as to die in a terror attack, i would definitely speed as much as i wanted.
Re:Drone Hobbyists Angered by Congress Ending the Aerial Wil... by gamblor956 on Friday September 28, 2018 @12:40PM (#18094764)
Kid, I used to be a public defender. I'm pretty sure I have a better idea of what motivates people not to commit crime than you do.
Re:Drone Hobbyists Angered by Congress Ending the Aerial Wil... by Applejinx on Thursday September 27, 2018 @08:31PM (#18090065)
Pretty sure that one was CGI: no lights, and the drone did NOT get completely wiped out by the jet's wake, which I think is pretty conclusive. I suppose we could assume that maybe one day a drone pilot COULD do that for real.

Also… mighty fast 'drone', to nearly accelerate to the speed of a landing jet. I don't think they make quadcopters quite that brisk yet.

Re:Drone Hobbyists Angered by Congress Ending the Aerial Wil... by chillfox on Friday September 28, 2018 @12:12AM (#18091013)
Wake turbulence moves down and with the wind. Looking at the video the drone was above the aircraft and would therefore not experience significant wake turbulence.
Re:Drone Hobbyists Angered by Congress Ending the Aerial Wil... by reaperducer on Friday September 28, 2018 @12:07AM (#18090988)
Also… mighty fast 'drone', to nearly accelerate to the speed of a landing jet. I don't think they make quadcopters quite that brisk yet.

We must be thinking of different encounter videos. In the one I saw, the drone didn’t move much. It sat in the flight path waiting for a jet to come by.

Re:Drone Hobbyists Angered by Congress Ending the Aerial Wil... by Applejinx on Saturday September 29, 2018 @02:40PM (#18102011)
The drone waits for the jet to come down below it, then leans sharply forward to chase it. In doing this, it drops quite a bit of altitude and hits probably a couple hundred miles an hour before it subsides and lets the jet fly on. The manuevers are quite plausible, the speed not so much. Unless the jet was actually a blimp shaped like a jet :)
Re:Drone Hobbyists Angered by Congress Ending the Aerial Wil... by stickfigure on Thursday September 27, 2018 @03:52PM (#18087969)
That isn't necessarily a justification.

* Is that behavior already illegal under existing law?

* Do these new laws meaningfully address that behavior?

Re:Drone Hobbyists Angered by Congress Ending the Aerial Wil... by Shivetya on Thursday September 27, 2018 @06:09PM (#18089243)
you obviously haven't been keeping up with the current state of gun control legislation. governments are keen on making the illegal even more illegal as a means to look like they are doing something and to chip away at rights people are current exercising.

drones will eventually become so heavily licensed than anything outside of law enforcement, large news organizations, and politicians, will be restricted to the point of needing specialized parks just to enjoy them.

RC planes generally fall under 112-95 Section 336 which pretty much should work for drones

Re:Drone Hobbyists Angered by Congress Ending the Aerial Wil... by toss1 on Friday September 28, 2018 @02:13PM (#18095622)
The problem is that RC planes almost universally require a much higher investment in skill-building to become competent enough to even fly, let alone fly well.

There is also a large community of builders and flyers [1], a network of clubs with actual airfields for the purpose, and a multi-million dollar insurance policy with membership.

Both the difficulty, the investment, and the training and peer pressure drastically reduces the number of participants who behave like asshats with their aircraft - to essentially zero.

With hobby drones, it is exactly the opposite -- just go buy some overgrown toy, and you can now put up in the air a device that with any of hundreds of failures of the device or pilot, can become a lethal projectile falling from the sky.

So, yes, serious requirements for anything over a few hundred grams is very reasonable[2].

[1] Academy of Model Aeronautics -- www.modelaircraft.org

[2](no, I'm not implying that the Govt automatically implements every reg in a reasonable & effective way, that could still end badly.)

[Edit: footnotes]

Re:Drone Hobbyists Angered by Congress Ending the Aerial Wil... by kevin_thibedeau on Thursday September 27, 2018 @06:49PM (#18089564)
Not to worry. Trump would never sign such redundant regulations.
Re:Drone Hobbyists Angered by Congress Ending the Aerial Wil... by spookthesunset on Thursday September 27, 2018 @04:57PM (#18088596)
Re:Drone Hobbyists Angered by Congress Ending the Aerial Wil... by rasz on Thursday September 27, 2018 @08:43PM (#18090127)
I saw that one illegal thing that is already illegal, so lets make more things illegal, that will show them!
Re:Drone Hobbyists Angered by Congress Ending the Aerial Wil... by nraynaud on Thursday September 27, 2018 @05:21PM (#18088805)
It was already illegal, there is no need to make it more illegal.

What would be important is forbid passengers planes from flying lower than 500ft.

Re:Drone Hobbyists Angered by Congress Ending the Aerial Wil... by dmitrygr on Thursday September 27, 2018 @05:35PM (#18088967)

  > What would be important is forbid passengers
  > planes from flying lower than 500ft. 
so how do you propose they land?
Re:Drone Hobbyists Angered by Congress Ending the Aerial Wil... by zeropoint46 on Thursday September 27, 2018 @07:03PM (#18089643)
well outside of the environment obviously
Re:Drone Hobbyists Angered by Congress Ending the Aerial Wil... by Intermernet on Friday September 28, 2018 @07:11AM (#18092451)
Can't land. Front fell off.
Re:Drone Hobbyists Angered by Congress Ending the Aerial Wil... by nraynaud on Thursday September 27, 2018 @09:23PM (#18090296)
in the zones that have been conspicuously forbidden to the drones.
Re:Drone Hobbyists Angered by Congress Ending the Aerial Wil... by wbl on Friday September 28, 2018 @04:30AM (#18091827)
Like a port? For airplanes?
Re:Drone Hobbyists Angered by Congress Ending the Aerial Wil... by nraynaud on Friday September 28, 2018 @01:03PM (#18094965)
yeah, locally we call it a sky harbor, but the area is a little bit "special".
Re:Drone Hobbyists Angered by Congress Ending the Aerial Wil... by taneq on Thursday September 27, 2018 @11:26PM (#18090780)
Isn't there already a floor on general aviation operations (over most areas, barring crop-dusting and things)?